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Saturday, September 6th 2003 - 07:54:12 AM
Name: alex Comments: Just a little hello... And thanks for maintaining this life preserving website, which compensates for the end of the other one. Too bad though. Thanks to everybody for the encouraging messages left. I read them all, although I rarely feel like or able to leave messages myself. But my prayers and thoughts are with every one of you all.
Hope to meet all of you one day, soon or late.
brotherly love
Saturday, September 6th 2003 - 05:34:39 AM
Name: Quietone Comments: Hey All,
Once again I've been reading silently in the background. Does anyone know why James stopped updating his site? Just wondering. Just wanted to comment on two quick things: 1) It is possible to fight and stay spiritual. I currently serve as a ministerial servant, not that I am by any means an example to reach to be like. 2) in regard to the question on kissing, it may be good to review the material on loose conduct. We think so often of immorality that we sometimes forget that other actions, seemingly less serious, can damage our relationship with Jehovah.
Sorry I don't post more often, but know I think of and pray for all of you every day.
C
Wednesday, September 3rd 2003 - 10:25:30 AM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Brian, in response to your query about the sad post from Larson on jwsupport:
I emailed him straight away. Then another contributer to jwsupport (a pioneer serving abroad) asked me if I could get Larson's phone number from International Directory Enquiries, as this pioneer felt really concerned, had also emailed Larson, and wanted to talk with him.
I duly got the phone number and phoned Larson myself, leaving a message on his answering machine, with my own phone number. I sent Larson's number to the pioneer brother, but I do not know if he phoned Larson.
So, be assured that sound efforts were made to reach Larson.
Best,
David.
Wednesday, September 3rd 2003 - 02:30:40 AM
Name: bri Comments: I recently recieved a message mentionning the construction of a new group for "challenged" persons like ourselves.
(I know what your thinking "Speak for yourself", or something of the sort)
I like the idea of "all nations and tongues" being able to communicate together on such a site, as long as it`s being is to upbuild and help us all to endure like this site or the seemingly defunct JW Support. (It seems that there must be a prophecy to apply in this case. Maybe we`ll only find our after its accomplishment) Just joking, please don`t think I`ve gone astray. Personally I live in a french speaking region and it would be nice to have contact with such persons and maybe meet with someone, like what seems to be happening with some of y`all way yonder in the U.K.
What do YOU think??
Secondly, I`ve been thinking regularly about a sad message left by Larson on JW Support a while back of being completely at the end of the line and planning to end his life. I sent a message but had no response. I hope he wasn`t that serious and you are still with us Larson?
Has anyone heard from him?
Just got back from a restful nature vacation on the great lakes, I think that fresh "ocean" air has gotten to me I have too much oxygen in the brain, I`m used to breathing smog . Hope everyone is fine.
Hi David A., get back to ya
Sunday, August 31st 2003 - 06:01:10 PM
Name: sascha Comments: Hello I'm a female witness just wanted to say hi
Friday, August 29th 2003 - 12:01:44 PM
Name: Logan Comments: Hey Oliver!
I'm sure we all have had bad on-line experiences to talk about, however we also have them at our local conventions, and congregations as well, (at least I have) however it is true there is more danger on-line, I think (and I think most would agree with me) that in the long run it is worth it. I mean sure we have felt hurt...and wonder if it's worth it at times, however when you do find true friends that understand you and support you, it's all worth it. Most of us, sad to say...can't fullly experience that part of our congregations love, because we fear the way most feel about gay's.
However if you still feel concern about it, we're all here to ask ... you can pretty get the dish on anyone! lol Also, talk to Jehovah about it...tell him the type of support you need and I'm sure he will provide what you need.
All the Best,
Logan
Thursday, August 28th 2003 - 11:54:32 PM
Name: oliver Comments: hi chrystal,
to your question: it is so wrong as kissing somebody from the opposite sex without the intention to marry this person. not the possibility of a judical committee or calculations about being disfellowshipped or being reproved should hold you back doing so. think about the consequences for yourself, your emotions and may be to what else this can lead. also think about how it will affect the other person (may be YOU are very strong, the other person NOT), and last but not least how it will affect jehovah.
bible principles? may be such like the follows?
1cor 9:27 i pummel my body and lead it as a slave
rom 12:1,2 quit being fashioned after this system
i think, we have to be more cautious because of our strong but WRONG emotions. be careful.
oliver
Thursday, August 28th 2003 - 12:50:13 PM
Name: Chrystal Comments: Hello. I was hoping to get your opinion (and hopefully scriptual reasoning) on something. My question is, how wrong is it to kiss someone of the same sex? Not that I have done so, but the thought has been wandering around the back of my mind for some time now. I've done research on the matter, but I've not found any obvious answer. I'm sure one couldn't be disfellowshipped (at least not for a one time thing, especially if there is repentance) because it isn't porneia. But could one be reproved? What do you guys think? Do any of you know the answer from experience? And how have the elders dealt with this? Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts with me.
Chrystal
PS Oliver, yes, I am girl. Not too many of those around here, eh? :)
Wednesday, August 27th 2003 - 11:36:07 PM
Name: oliver Comments: hi folks,
wow, what a reaction!! thank you very much for your kind interest and answers. i will think about it.
to phil: i think you are right about disfellwoshipping and staying away from the congregation. every case is different, so every action has to be individual. thank you for your efforts.
to mat: thank you too for your recommendations. probably a good way to proceed. hopefully my instincts are strong enough ;))
to marc: are you a good witch or a bad witch?? ;)) ok ok. i saw myself throwing back by brothers (or may be non-brothers). disgusting imagination. didn't like it. but it seems to be the only possibility to get in contact. thank you too.
to chrystal: i appreciate you. short and clear statement. are you f or m?
to all: apparently everybody knows everybody here. but at the same time, it seems you all (or most of you) have had some bad experiences in contacting others through internet. do you think it was worth it? any changes in your feelings?
thank you again.
oliver
Wednesday, August 27th 2003 - 07:19:20 PM
Name: Kurt Comments: Wow, look at all the people now. Just had to check in and see the new people posting....it's great to see old friends and new friends. Greyson & Sam, i thought you knew about this site? hmmmmm i must start sharing more with you two. hehehe I agree with being cautious. Before I came to this site or JWSupport, i was on another site that was a tad questionable....i felt kinda weird going there, until some brave soul gave me the link to James' site. (thank you, David-anon) :-)
Anyway... great to see you all chattin and look forward to many new friends.
Philia,
Kurt (check the addy, kids!)
Wednesday, August 27th 2003 - 05:55:27 PM
Name: david Comments: actually until you mentioned it I hadn't thought anything of the fact that I wasn't disfellowshipped when I came back. I think part of it is the fact that my lifestyle wasnt known by any witnesses. When I left, I never saw anyone again.
and I think it's also because the elders are (or should be) becoming a lot more empathetic to people's situations and are able to discern a truly repentant person. I am blessed to have a warm and inviting congregation, and the humbleness extends to all of our elders.
I was publicly reproved because I smoked and the congregation knew that before I started coming to meetings again, but I do have my service privileges which provides wonderful encouragement for me when I go out.
Wednesday, August 27th 2003 - 05:21:12 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Oliver, I wanted to respond to your question about disfellowshipping.
Often a person will 'drift' away from meeting attendance and other Christian association. Then, in time as the lifestyle changes, they may become involved in wrongdoing.
Since time has gone by and the person is no longer identified as a Witness, it is not for elders to seek them out with a view to a judicial hearing. They simply have become part of the world, in essence.
Sometimes though, such a one will decide in due course to come back to the Christian Congregation. At that time, they will need the help of a Judical Committee, and they should expect loving and sympathetic treatment.
It is still possible, however, that the Committee could decide to disfellowship the person, until 'fruits befitting repentance' were sufficiently clearly in evidence. This would be a provision to help the person, and to protect the name of the Congregation, with whom the person is now identified again.
It is possible though, that the Committee would decide merely to reprove the individual, and that he or she would be restricted in what Christian privileges were available, for a time.
The aim in any case would be to assist the spiritual recovery of the person.
There was a WT comment on treatment of 'lapsed' returning ones, which I will try and find.
Phil.
Wednesday, August 27th 2003 - 07:08:00 AM
Name: Mat Comments: Oliver/All,
I wanted to echo Phil's comments about being cautious and add that there are two major ways you can screen new acquaintances: 1) get recommendations from people on the site that you trust. For example, ask Phil, Marc, Davidanon or others if they have heard of any bad experiences with this person, or if they have had any themselves. 2) to exchange a few emails or maybe IM them without giving away too much personal information initially. You can generally get a feel about a person's spirituality or intentions from a few conversations or emails. Trust your instincts! If something doesn't seem right or feels funny, it probably is. I speak from experience on this one! There were brothers who lovingly warned me about certain individuals on another site, saving me a lot of heartache. Hope this helps!
Mat
Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 10:31:28 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hi folks,
Oliver, you raise some interesting and important points, and prompt me to set out my 'policy' on postings received to the guestbook. I had been intending to do that for a while. So here goes:
Basically, two factors would prevent me from allowing a post into the guestbook:
1)The post itself seemed to me to contain something unsuitable;
2)The sender was known to me to be unsuitable for some reason (even though the post seemed OK).
It is of course impossible to be certain at once that every single post is from a Brother or Sister in good standing, or that their representation is honest.
It is not without some misgiving that I run the site and the guestbook. I am much aware of the possible risks and dangers. But I reflect on what discovery of jwsupport meant for me, and the friendships that have come out of it, and I think that as long as it seems that the benefits outweigh the risks, I will keep things going.
I have been able to verify the 'bona fides' of quite a few who posted to jwsupport, by personal correspondence with them, speaking on phone and so on. One is sitting in this room now as I type, visiting with several friends from his congregation. But of course I cannot absolutely guaranteee the genuineness of all whose words appear in the guestbook. Sensible caution is required.
Occasionally, I have found it necessary to remove postings, when reliable information has come my way about the one posting which makes me think twice.
I think in the meantime, I will soldier on, and I want to take the opportunity to thank all in the guestbook for their expressions, and for taking the time to make them. It is VERY much appreciated, and you can never know, can you, how much unsuspected good you may do by it.
Thank you,
Phil.
Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 10:52:23 PM
Name: Marc Comments: Hey Oliver,
You are right to be suspicious and,"Cautious as serpents, innocent as doves" There really is no way to be sure about the intentions of others or their status congregationally. That is why the Slave has warned of the dangers of the internet. In order to get this type of support we personally need to take responsiblity for weeding out the psychos and "Vessels for dishonorable purposes" It won't be as easy as asking, "Are you a good witch or a bad witch", since a bad one would lie anyways. I am afraid it is a road full of pitfalls and you have to throw a lot of fish back.
Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 10:46:53 PM
Name: Scott Comments: Hi,
Just found this site and would like to talk to anyone in same position. I live in Scotland UK. Been in the truth all my life. Never been up to any dodgy stuff but always liked guys as long as i can remember. Even the light touch from a guy really gets me! Sorry! Exhausted myself analyzing why i am like this. To the point that i don't care any more. I get quite angry that i can't speak to anyone about it coz, well you know why. Then i found this site and a couple of others. Anyway if anyone wants to keep in touch i would love that. With loadsa respect for you all. Scott xx
Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 08:01:33 PM
Name: oliver Comments: hi,
please help me to understand it: you wrote david: "stayed away for 15 years. i got heavily into drugs and of course led a completely gay lifestyle", of course without being disfellowshiped!! a little hard to understand, isn't it?
but nevertheless, it`s indeed a good thing, to come back to jehovah.
i don`t want to be misunderstood, asking my questions. but i think a lot of none- or ex-witnesses make a full use of media like this here. how can i be sure to get in contact to "real" active jw's?? isn't it almost impossible?? nothing against disfellowshiped ones, who looking for some encouragement. i think i can handle this, as long as they make it known in their posts without any hesitation.
any hints?
thanks oliver
Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 01:48:11 AM
Name: david Comments: me again. there was a little confusion, but i am not disfellowshipped. i was at 17 but was reinstated 6 months after. hope this is good news. thanks
david
Monday, August 25th 2003 - 11:04:53 PM
Name: david Comments: forgot to tell you all, i am from tennessee in america, but have visited britain and am a bit of an anglophile
Monday, August 25th 2003 - 10:56:49 PM
Name: david Comments: hi. i am 33. i was raised in the truth but disfellowshipped at 17 for homosexuality. i was reinstated 6 months later. (oh, i regular pioneered at 16) but i fell away from the truth soon after and stayed away for 15 years. i got heavily into drugs and of course led a completely gay lifestyle. as a result i found out 3 years ago that i have hiv. i am living healthily with it though. six months ago i made the decision to come back to the truth and jehovah has blessed me greatly since. it is of course difficult, but constant prayer relieves me somewhat. im sure you can understand the lonliness and frustration. i welcome anyone to talk with and wish you all well with much brotherly love
david
Sunday, August 24th 2003 - 09:22:13 PM
Name: Sam GreenBAUM Comments: Hey guys,
I can't beleive I didn't know of this guestbook before today!? Anyway, it's nice to see so many people still hanging in there! I will have to make a post when I think of something of interest to say, I'm afraid that I don't have much of that.. LOL
Agape, Sam.
PS: white cliffs of dover? if your going to mock me, atleast pick a lame song I really like ;) lol
Saturday, August 23rd 2003 - 12:53:38 PM
Name: Chrystal Comments: Hello. I have been baptized for almost 10 years now and have never been disfellowshipped or reproved. Also I've never been inactive or irregular in the ministry either. And I was able to pioneer for a few years too. Hope that helps Oliver.
Have a good day,
Chrystal
Saturday, August 23rd 2003 - 08:19:22 AM
Name: oliver Comments: i have been .... thats the point, present situation?
Thursday, August 21st 2003 - 11:29:23 PM
Name: oliver Comments: how many real active witnesses are here?? how many are disfellowshiped? just curious.
Sunday, August 17th 2003 - 06:07:10 AM
Name: Dustin Comments: Hey all! I miss talking to others from the support site. I'm gonna have to start coming to this site to get my daily dose of "love" from you all! Hope everyone is doing well!
Agape & Philia!
Dustin
Wednesday, August 13th 2003 - 05:43:53 PM
Name: Jon Comments: I stumbled on this website.. very good indeed.. just remember to always lean on what Jehovah says and never start to form ideas contrary to what the faithful slave has taught us :-)
Wednesday, August 13th 2003 - 03:03:31 AM
Name: Bri Comments: I read John`s story 2 days ago and I`m still thinking and reflecting upon it. I related to it 150%. It was encouraging and even faith-strengthening. Just like reading one of those life storyies in the W. but a little more specialized.
Thanks I really needed that!!!!
Monday, August 11th 2003 - 09:35:18 PM
Name: Sunny Comments: Hi together!
I'm really glad that an other brother showed me this site. It is really a big problem for so many of us to be gay. There are so much brothers and sisters fighting in the whole world against this.
Was thinking again on my District Convention in Stuttgart (Southwest Germany) that so much Brothers an Sisters are together with someone, as friends, or there are married.
And me? It is so hard to be alone. How are you guys figthing with this? Please feel free to contact me on my email. Thanks a lot!
Monday, August 11th 2003 - 05:28:25 AM
Name: Marc Comments: I had a similar situation regarding the Romans Bible reading on Thurday. An elder in our hall handled the information and focused on the same verses regarding males and females engaging in homosexual activities. There I sat, all alone, listening to the information with the microscopic view of someone intimately acquainted with each word written in the text. Since I am out in my hall, I could feel eyes burning into me as my ears turned many shades of red. Although the brother wasn't exactly on target with his phraseology or quite "PC", I had to take it all with a grain of salt. People don't change over night. I am really proud of how the brothers and sisters have handled it in my hall (elders included). Bottom line is still the same...the practice of homosexuality is wrong and there are no exceptions. We don't have to feel guilty or damaged if we are attracted to the same sex, we merely have to resist acting on those feelings and the ransom of Christ will take care of the rest. After all, we belong to the most orthodox religion on the planet (Sound in opinion or doctrine; hence, holding the Christian faith; believing the doctrines taught in the Scriptures) and yet are not nearly the most fanatic. Because love is our most defining quality, we will be able to survive in the Truth as long as we are determined to endure.
Sunday, August 10th 2003 - 04:19:38 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Dear all,
Please note the new Link, to "John's Story", a moving account.
Phil.
Sunday, August 10th 2003 - 02:55:23 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Brian, you raise some interesting points. I know how disheartening it is when under-researched comments are made, based on cultural prejudice rather than Scripture. My friend who was formerly our WT Study conductor (and is 'heterosexually challenged') told me of a time when someone had made a comment along those lines during a WT Study, and he just felt like giving up and walking off the platform.
Your question about what was involved in 'leaving the natural use of the female' etc, is a very interesting one, which I have pondered in the past. Here's my 'take' on it:
Paul's remarks in Romans 1 are addressed to Jews and to non-Jews in the Christian congregation. They do not seem to be commenting specifically on something within the ancient nation of Israel,or to a specific period of history, but simply observing that homosexual practice is one of the sinful things that became manifest in fallen mankind. In certain times and places it would be more manifest than in others, just as today some cities and some areas within them, attract a large 'gay' population.
I thought too about how in history unfaithful Israel 'turned' to homosexuality. I think what probably happened there was that the persons concerned had always been by inclination 'gay' or 'bi', but were held back by Jehovah's righteous law - which was absolutely explicit in forbidding homosexual intercourse - from doing what they wanted to do. But when the nation of Israel left Jehovah's law, it would be a case of "Oh good, now we can do what we have always wanted to do anyway".
I guess most of those individuals would probably have been married too, even though 'gay', as there wouuld be very strong cultural pressure to marry. But marriage would not have 'turned them straight'.
That's my tuppenceworth, but I think I will look up more about Romans 1. If anyone else has some thoughts I'd love to hear them.
I was very heartened by the picture caption on page 22 of the October 1st 2003 Wathctower, which says "Motivated by love, elders spend time doing research and helping erring ones". This is a remionder that elders have a duty to research subjects they know little about, when they are trying to help someone affected in a particular way. It is sometimes the case that they will initially make unwise comments, but then will gain a better understanding when they go and look up the publications. The presence of the caption in this WT is perhaps something that we could kindly and respectrfully refer to, if we felt that a brother had made ill-advised and inaccurate comments.
Best wishes,
David.
Sunday, August 10th 2003 - 02:41:05 AM
Name: bri Comments: Hi
I hope everyone had a nice assembly and is having a nice summer. It`s been pretty rotten here weatherwise, lots of rain. Hopefully it`ll brighten up for my vacation in 8 days.
A depressing thing happened at our ministry school meeting last thursday. The bible reading of Rom 1-4 last week of course included some strong language in Rom 1:27 etc on those who left the natural use for the female etc. etc. etc.
YOU KNOW. Well the bro. that was giving bible highlights of course went into that scripture explaining how things today are much worse than back then,etc. etc. Sodom and Gomorrah etc etc. blah blah blah !!!. And how we should all have in aversion such things. And that those that may have such tendencies CAN CHANGE. I mean no disrepect for the bro. for he is such a kind person, but it just was so disheartening and discouraging. I had the next student talk and I just felt like taking off. What am I doing wrong in that I`m not able to change??? What are we doing wrong......????
How can I expect to open up to those who are supposed to understand when such reasoning is repeated to me on a regular basis. Thanks to sites like this one it helps me to keep my sanity (most of the time) when hearing such statements.
Although when reading those verses it seems as if to say that they did "change" from the natural use to the unnatural. I wonder what that really means?? I`ll have to do some research on that I guess. Anyone have anything to better understand that?
Hope everyone is well. Take care
Saturday, August 2nd 2003 - 02:28:19 PM
Name: Abi Comments: Hey everyone
Hope you're all enjoying the summer ... all those in the northern hemisphere anyway
A lovely posting Logan - yeah we all need to be reminded of the BIG PICTURE - that never hurts. It does come before our "happiness" which probably wouldn't be "real" happiness anyway - just Satan playing tricks.
It is a bit quiet round here at the moment but don't think that nobody cares. There's a lot of people who do just look and don't post ... but still get much encouragement ... and I was wondering if the sites had helped to stop anyone going out of the truth through total loneliness - and Logan's posting proves that. I know I'm a lot happier since I found brothers and sisters who really understand a lot of what's going on in my head. Like the recent Watchtower on whether we need others - it can make you sick if you don't have friends who you can open your heart to - and here we can
Bye for now
Abi
Wednesday, July 30th 2003 - 03:28:26 PM
Name: Logan Hunter Comments: Hey Phil-
Just to clue everyone in as to what this post is about, Phil and I were
discussing about how there seems to be a lack of posting, but as I was
saying in an e-mail to him, (below)
that despite that..these site are crucial to the mental well being of many.
"I know that posting maybe slow at times, but that does not mean that what
the site accomplishes is a small thing. James's site kept me from leaving the
truth...(not because I wanted to leave Jehovah, but because I was in to much
pain being alone...needing people to relate to, and rely on for support)
Before the support site I was alone inside despite having tons of friends
on the outside..but none knew the real me.
Your site helps so many people...never doubt that, you're doing an
extension of Jehovah's work...by comforting and supporting his flock that
are misunderstood. I'm sure many people read but do not post...and I'm sure
that people mean to post...and would like to but, are so worn out by the
time their day is at an end, they no longer have the strength or words to
add anything in an articulate manner so they remain silent...but are still
encouraged to know they are not the only ones fighting what seems like the
very core and essence of who they are, just to remain loyal to Jehovah's
original plan. (and to those of you who aren't...take a step back and look
at the BIG PICTURE, were just a part of Jehovah's plan for the
universe...our happiness comes secondary to his...STOP thinking so highly of
yourselves!...and beside it's not like we're doomed to this misery forever,
which is more than I can say for Satan's plan for us)
Rest assured that I and lot of others sincerely appreciate the work you
and "James" do to help do to help (us), Jehovah's misunderstood, abused,
depressed, heartbroken, sexually challenged sons and daughters.
Logan"
Tuesday, July 29th 2003 - 01:18:37 AM
Name: Dustin Comments: Hey, where is everyone lately? vacations must be in full swing! Just popped on here and JWSupport, but there doesn't look to be any action. People must be busy & such. :-(
Well, Love to all! Keep smiling
Friday, July 25th 2003 - 11:12:34 PM
Name: Logan Hunter Comments: Hogan Lunter??? What give's man... You totally ripped off my name... are you picking on me with the whole Beauty thing? We all feel ungly sometimes, i know looks are not the most important thing...but i was just venting, and beside we all want to look good.
The one the only,
Logan
Wednesday, July 16th 2003 - 04:13:35 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hi JS,
Thanks for signin' my Guestbook.
I hope you get some encouragement from comments here, and maybe also at www.geocities.com/jwsupport
The aim is to help one another out if we can. It certainly isn't the aim here to be less than 'strict' when it comes to Bible standards! But I think I know what you mean - some elders are not much aware of certain issues, and wouldn't really know how to be encouraging. I get the impression that some have thought that it's possible to change, and that if we don't we're just not trying!
Please stick around, and I hope you find encouragement. There are ones around your age here too (and of course I was your age at one time!)
Best wishes,
Phil.
Wednesday, July 16th 2003 - 07:10:59 AM
Name: JS Comments: Cool site. I'm 17 and new to this. Guess i might be the kid around here. I wanted to write and say I am glad to find this place. My hall is real strict so this is awesome. I dont think my feelings are going to change like some think. Jehovah will have to fix that it in the new system, so why worry about it? Right?
Tuesday, July 15th 2003 - 09:53:45 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Gone all quiet during the summer months!
Todd wrote in the jwsupport guestbook about how with therapy he felt that his desire for men was diminishing.
I wondered if anyone else found this, and in addition found feelings for the oppositen sex starting to develop?
I cannot find any evidence of this in theocratic or secular sources, and am interested to hear of any expereinces describing how this took place.
Any comments. (for the record, I will be extremely surprised to find any real experiences of change or orientation).
Best wishes,
David.
Tuesday, July 1st 2003 - 06:47:21 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hello Scott,
Welcome to this site and guestbook, where I hope you will find encouragement and support.
A good friend of mine, your age (33 last week) went through a process like you and did not associate for a few years.
Now he is enjoying being part of the congregation once more.
I hope that things will work out well for you. I am sure they will, if you take the right steps.
Best wishes,
Phil.
Tuesday, July 1st 2003 - 01:10:33 AM
Name: Scott Comments: Well, where to start! Hello first, Its great to see a site like this, and be able to post first of all. I've been inactive in the Truth for a while now, still always go to the Memorial and the occasional Convention at Twickenham in London. So yes, I live in the SE of England. Would love to hear from any brothers or sisters trying hard to deal with these problems we all share. I sometimes wish I could have been as strong as some of you evidently are, but I was stupid I guess. 32 now, and feel its about time I got my life back in line. I know I never forgot the Truth, and miss that so much sometimes. Anyway thats enough for now. Take care. Scott
Monday, June 30th 2003 - 09:00:18 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi everyone!,
Just to let you know that I'm also so glad this site is back. It has been and it will continue to be a huge source of encouragement for many. Thanks Phil for putting it back.
Your brother,
David from Spain.
Friday, June 27th 2003 - 10:25:50 AM
Name: Abi Comments: Thanks for keeping the site Phil - honestly we really do need it - there's nothing worse than feeling alone
Monday, June 23rd 2003 - 11:13:34 AM
Name: David Comments: Hello everyone,
A document called "The Undiscovered Circuit" has been written, and two copies sent to the Circuit Overseer of London No 2 Circuit (this Circuit includes Bethel).
"The Undiscovered Circuit" comprises an essay of nine and a half thousand words, followed by Appendices including extracts from the Society's Literature, items from newspapers, and articles by one from this site.
It addresses the topics discussed here anad at jwsupport.
"The Undiscovered Circuit" refers to the fact that statistically there must be at least one, more probably three, circuits' worth of homosexually-oriented Witnessses in Britain.
Best,
David.
Monday, June 23rd 2003 - 07:56:41 AM
Name: S Comments: Hey everyone, I Was raised in the truth, but left between the ages of 15-18, when I turned 19 I had a change of heart, and I just got baptized this month at the age of 20, but now I'm having issues again, nothing major. I hope JAh can help me through! If anyone wants to contact me that would be cool.
-S in so. cal
Monday, June 23rd 2003 - 02:33:22 AM
Name: bri Comments: Hi everyone.
I`m so happy you decided to keep the site going Phil. "Merci mille fois"
We just had our C.O.`s visit this week and in the final talk that he gave today he said something very simple that really encouraged me with my often unworthy feelings: "Jah attracted us to the truth because of what he see`s we will be at the end of the thousand years."
I just found that so encouraging and needed to share it with you
Bye for now
Monday, June 16th 2003 - 03:48:23 PM
Name: pip anson Comments: hello i just herd about this site-its so encourging to meet people in the same boat! Im 23 from Notts, baptized witness. I just felt alone for along time knowing i was different in some way but unable to express myself, many of you probably have felt this way. I really would like to hear from some of you, share my feelings and experiences! Really looking forwards to the convention at Notts this weekend maybe i see some of you. Its been good getting this off my chest Take care all xx
Friday, June 13th 2003 - 10:46:53 PM
Name: Chrystal Comments: Hey, please don't get rid of this site!!! We want something of this sort! I was wonderful to find the JW Support site and finally know I wasn't alone. This one does just as much good! I hope it will stay around for as long as possible.
Thanks!
Friday, June 6th 2003 - 11:52:52 AM
Name: Abi Comments: Hello everybody
Just to say I was baptised at 17, even though I was brought up in the truth. So by this time I was fully aware of my feelings ... though probably still rather confused.
An only child. But don't know how the sibling thing relates to women. Is it only used regarding men?
But the baptism age thing made me remember a circuit needs talk. The question was asked - you may be baptised but are you dedicated? This applies to us all, all the time. Not just when we're thinking of baptism. Personally even though I got baptised at 17 I don't think I had a clue what dedication really meant. I knew it was the truth but I don't think it went a lot deeper than that. That came a lot lot later and even now that can drift at times. I guess that's why we had a circuit needs talk on the subject. And the whole nation of Israel was dedicated wasn't it and I don't think they had a clue generally what that meant. Just musing ....
Take care everybody
Abi
Friday, June 6th 2003 - 06:54:24 AM
Name: Jason Comments: I agree with Brian that it is hard to not want to fight our HFs and especially if those around us are of the mind that we can be changed and it is somehow our fault we are this way. Very disheartening. I was speaking to a young very hetero lad, who chases females, will be married in the course of time. I asked about what he felt was meant by 'that is what some of you were' and he, within a milisecond, said that thieves, drunkards and homosexuals still have the desires, the thoughts in varying degrees. I was amazed and thouhgt he would wrinkle up his nose as many do, including elders, when discussing this thought. He said there are probabaly several BHFs in each congregation and said he felt very glad that it was not his orientation but said we should offer sympathy and support to such ones. I say this because it once again reassures us that there are many fair-minded people in the congregations, who do understand and are not freaked out by our situation. I find that very comforting.
Keepup the good work all you posting-we get a lot from them.
Thursday, June 5th 2003 - 03:15:46 AM
Name: bri Comments: Very interesting David, as I had an older brother and a younger sister, leaving me in the middle. Now is there some pill that will undo all of that, maybe David`s of a few months back???
I spent most of my younger years up til I was 16 in the world and must say that although I was presented with opportunities of a worldy nature from both sexual persuasions, I was always more drawn toward the one side. Does this make my situation more of a nurture than nature compared say to those who were born and raised having no such experiences? I feel guilty as charged because of this.
Dave I was encouraged as well with your thought on accepting things for the time being as they are and getting on with things, that`ss one thing that I find very hard to do. As with many problems I sometimes feel it must be fixed, which also has a bit to do with being around those that have that mentality concerning one with these feelings.
I`ve been very sick for the past few months and was with family pretty well all the time and of course when the subject comes up the closest and most helpful people in my life think such through their bold comments, which leaves me in mental isolation, keeping my sincere and valid thoughts, concerns, opinions etc. to myself. I guess that that`s the way it shoud be, end of discussion as our parents said so well. Take care all.
ps. It`s kinda nice to have another site to come to although at first one is suspicious.
Wednesday, June 4th 2003 - 10:09:50 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Scott, interesting poll.
I am an only child. My 'gay' pal near me is the eldest, with a younger sister and a younger half-brother.
A 'gay' guy I studied with was indeed the middle of three, with an older brother and a younger sister.
Let's hear from the rest!
D.
Wednesday, June 4th 2003 - 02:58:57 AM
Name: Scott Comments: David, I read that Time article with interest too. Myself, I have noticed that most of the gay men I know are youngest (or at least younger children). I know the article said gay men have a higher statistical average of having only an older brother, but I pose this informal poll: what position in the family are you? I'm the youngest child with older sisters.
Sunday, June 1st 2003 - 03:55:13 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi everyone!,
As it is in most of the cases I have also been raised in the truth but in a divided household. My father has never studied the Bible and my brother left the truth before getting baptized at the age of 14. Just my mother and me are Jehovah's witnesses tho most of my relatives on my mothers' side are JWs too. My enviroment has always been a heterosexual one so I don't think it has much to do with my homosexuality. I have always felt it is something innate in me and I always knew its practice was forbidden by Jehovah. I completely agree with Scott. We don't have to waste time trying to justify our homosexuality and even worse trying to change it. We must be realistic and accept it will never go away. At least in my case helps me keep on going and focusing on controling my desires. Much can be done to control them but little or NOTHING to change the unchangable.
Many are the theories regarding the causes of homosexuality. Tho they are not my main concern since I know very well I'm not to blame for my being gay and that I never chose it, I find some of them interesting. I thought some of you would be interested in what it has been published this week on Time magazine. It's an article entlited "What makes you who you are". It's about the old dichotomy "Nature Vs. Nurture". Seeing this dichotomy not as two seperate things but the relationship between the two, which seems to be the latest scientist conculsions. That is, that genes and our experience interact for our whole life. The new vision of what nurture is also interesting for what happens in the womb would be within the nurture side. And it seems that what happens in the womb has to do with the homosexuality of many. The most relevant statements in this article are as follows:
"This is a new understanding of the fundamental building blocks of life based on the discovery that genes are not immutable things handed down from our parents like Moses' stone tablets but are active participants in our lives, designed to take their cues from everything that happens to us from the moment of our conception.For the time being, this new awareness has taken its strongest hold among scientists, changing how they think about everything from the way bodies develop in the womb to how new species emerge to the inevitability of homosexuality in some people."
"You will have to enter a world in which your genes are not puppet masters pulling the strings of your behavior but puppets at the mercy of your behavior, in which instinct is not the opposite of learning, environmental influences are often less reversible than genetic ones, and nature is designed for nurture". Interesting the fact that even in the case of enviromental factors these seem to be even LESS REVERSIBLE than genetic ones. So if anyone thinks his homosexuality has been caused by enviromental factors he should know once it happens the chances of a change are scarce.
Later in the article it is shown how this new view of genes alter the understanding of human nature in four fields (Language, Love, Antisocial Behavior and HOMOSEXUALITY).
"Homosexuality
Ray Blanchard at the University of Toronto has found that gay men are more likely than either lesbians or heterosexual men to have older brothers (but not older sisters). He has since confirmed this observation in 14 samples from many places. Something about occupying a womb that has held other boys occasionally results in reduced birth weight, a larger placenta and a greater probability of homosexuality. That something, Blanchard suspects, is an immune reaction in the mother, primed by the first male fetus, that grows stronger with each male pregnancy. Perhaps the immune response affects the expression of key genes during brain development in a way that boosts a boy's attraction to his own sex. Such an explanation would not hold true for all gay men, but it might provide important clues into the origins of both homosexuality and heterosexuality". Interestingly, that's my case. I mean I only have one brother and he's older than me and heterosexual. I know of some of us who also have older brothers but I also know of others who do not. So we cannot know to what extent this is true. I don't really care. Just thought this article was interesting and wanted to share it with you. I'm not a scientist and I'm not Jehovah, the only one who have the true answers to our questions. This just teaches me that whatever the reasons may be, let's accept this is not gonna change in this system and let us keep on fighting to remain faithful.
I recommend all of you intersted to read the whole article and these quoted statements in their context.It has apperead as the cover article in the States and as a secondary one here in Europe. It can be read on-line at www.time.com. Anyways, I have copied the whole article to a word file, so whoever wants it just ask and I'll send it to you.
Your brother,
David (Spain).
Saturday, May 31st 2003 - 05:37:34 PM
Name: Just J Comments: David,
I know we have talked about this some and in my previous discussion I applied known stereotypes on family situations that seem to produce a higher rate of “gay” males and thus concluded that in my case maybe there was a little nurture impacting my sexuality. However, after analyzing it, maybe I was just trying to blame someone else for my problems. That’s just so typical of human nature; it’s just easier to blame someone else. So, I have to agree with your line of reasoning regarding nature vs. nurture. I guess all of us that were raised in the truth had the “right nurture” so to speak, to be heterosexual.
J
Saturday, May 31st 2003 - 11:43:02 AM
Name: David Comments: Hello folks,
I too was raised in the truth. My Mother started associating in 1939 and was baptised in 1942. (Her father having strted to associate around 1938) I was baptised in 1971 at just under 14. I did go through a period in later years wondering if it had been too young, but concluded that I had known what dedication meant, even if I didn't know everything about being an adult.
I think Scott and J both make interesting points. I guess the thing is that parents/elders would need to be sure that a young child seeking baptism really understood the meaning of dedication. The discussion of the Questions should help with that. I imagine that if an elder felt that a child's responses were not truly personal, and were given like a catechism, he might suggest that the child was not ready for baptism.
Anyway, on the nature/nurture thing, all my childhood influences were pro-heterosexual. Peer pressure is extremely strong while young, so as I grew up, and went through school not knowing anyone 'gay', and seeing my school friends all getting interested in the opposite sex, how come, if it's possible to 'turn' a person's sexuality by influence, mine didn't 'turn' straight? Especially considering the very strong additional influence of Bible teaching, and congregation association.
Best,
D.
Saturday, May 31st 2003 - 04:08:39 AM
Name: Scott Comments: I'll add my vote and say that I was raised in the truth and baptized when I was 9. I know, I know, it's incredibly young and I've always had a bad opinion of getting baptized that young. On the other hand, every single person says the same thing, that they didn't feel like they had all the cards at the time they got baptized. I didn't have some important facts, that I was gay for starters, but I did know exactly what baptism meant...and I guess that's enough. I do go back and forth thinking maybe it wasn't enough sometimes, that my decision wasn't completely informed because I had no idea about the whole sex thing. But then I go back to what I said before that no one has all the facts, you always learn more later.
And I agree it seems like the vast majority of us were raised in the truth...I only know one person who I know wasn't.
Thursday, May 29th 2003 - 05:50:57 PM
Name: -J- Comments: I just thought I would chime in for Abi and say I was raised in the truth. I was baptised at 17. Which is a proper age I think. I never thought too much of really young people getting baptised only because I think the majority, and I mean like 95%+, are not ready to make a decision like that. Of course, I've also seen people wait and get baptised and then still leave, so you just never know sometimes.
Saturday, May 24th 2003 - 12:44:18 PM
Name: Abi Comments: OOPS SORRY
I forgot to say, in starting of a possible poll?
I was brought up in the truth and I know at least 2 other people who've posted here who were too.
Next ....
Saturday, May 24th 2003 - 12:39:36 PM
Name: Abi Comments: Hi guys and gals
Finally got time to make a brief posting to the new site. Thanks!!
Anybody know what's happened to the jw_bhf site. Thought I hadn't heard anything for a while and tried logging in. It's gone ...
Anyway the reason why was I was going to check the old polls to see if one was ever done for whether people were brought up in the truth or not. There's been quite a bit of discussion over the need for a new article from the Society and I agree, we really need it, and over the fact that the issue of young ones being brought up in the truth and having these feelings has not really been addressed. Certainly not beyond the phase stage anyway. It's back to the old Nature vs Nurture debate that David brought up many months ago on the jwsupport site. So I was wondering if anyone would be prepared to do a poll of those accessing this site just to see what the proportion among us is of those brought up in the truth and theoretically no external influences vs those who have come in later in life. I just thought it could be interesting to see ...
Best wishes to all ...
OH just one thing on the behaviour of animals ... don't really want to get dragged into that debate ... but even animal behaviour might not be what was originally intended ... so many environmental/other influences. Animals themselves may well have strayed from perfection too ... not of course their fault.
Take care everybody ... and keep battling on ... make that reply to Satan
Christian Love
Abi
Thursday, May 22nd 2003 - 10:36:12 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Salut Wilfried, et bienvenue. Nous sommes heureux de te voir encore.
Je t’ai ecrit deux fois, depuis quelque mois. Qu’est qu’il y a de nouveau avec toi?
J’ai deux amis francais qui j’ai trouvé au site je “James”. Moi-meme, je ne parle que vingt mots de francais!
Bien amicalement,
David.
Thursday, May 22nd 2003 - 08:10:12 PM
Name: Wilfried Comments: A little Hello from a french lonely homosexual brother...
Be Yah always with you... and you always faitfull...
Greetings from south of France...
Wil
Thursday, May 22nd 2003 - 06:57:10 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Scott, I agree so much with your conclusions. "Don't waste time thinking it will go away".
That's partly why I don't like the "Reparative Therapy" mob. They seem to hold out a promise of change of orientation, yet they have not a single example to offer. Nor in fact has a single example been given in WT literature, of someone who changed orientation. Oh yes, there have been examples of some who changed their PRACTICES and lifestyle. But not the orientation.
Folks, what do you think? Do you think it's possible? I don't. And if you keep thinking it can happen, and keep trying, and it doesn't, you will keep beating yourself up for your failure to do what you believe CAN be done.
Best,
D.
Tuesday, May 20th 2003 - 03:43:12 AM
Name: Scott Comments: Here's why the existence of gay animals is relevant: to show that homosexuality is indeed usually something innate and inborn, both to animals and humans.
If we can get to the point where people accept this fact (a monumental task not only considering heterosexuals who tend to be uninformed but also the great number of people who ARE homosexual but still insist on talking about homosexuality as something unimortant and temporary that they're afflicted with (like a cold or something) instead of something that's a part of them), then we can move beyond wasting time coming up with crackpot theories about the causes of homosexuality.
No one feels the need to attribute their left-handedness or green eyes to a bad childhood or fatherly neglect for the simple fact that neither is stigmatized or forbidden the way homosexuality is. Since Jehovah has prohibited same-sex relations, and because every society exhibits homophobia, people seem to feel the need to jump through hoops to liken homosexuality to a disease and overstate its pathology.
A person who doesn't like his blue eyes might decide that he just cannot accept the color eyes he was given. He might spend years panting, grunting, meditating and focusing his energies trying to change his eyes. And they just might change color some day...however, if they do, it won't be for all the trying he's done.
Similarly, I suggest this alternative: accept homosexuality as you would any other trait. Don't have sex, but neither should you waste time thinking it will go away. In the long run, I feel this is the best solution for those of us in our situation.
Monday, May 19th 2003 - 08:54:39 PM
Name: dustin Comments: Wow!!! Look at all the posts since i last posted! things have really picked up in here. I had lost the link to this site until a wonderful brother posted it again to the JWSupport site. THANKS!!!!!!! Interesting posts, i must say. Gay animals? hmmm... i'll have to think about it before i can give my opinion.
Stay well, all!
Love, Light, & Laughs!
Saturday, May 17th 2003 - 06:07:45 PM
Name: -J- Comments: Mat,
I realize you may not have meant to come across as you did but after all you were SHOUTING. Capital letters typed out, as everyone knows, means shouting.
I’ve been around these support sites for almost as long as they have been around, and frankly you can only listen to so many coming out stories and stories about interacting with other gay people or elder stories. For me, a good support site should be one that can have several different threads, or topics, going at once. They may sway from the mundane topics of coping with our problem, but seriously if you're so wrapped up in your problems that its all you can talk about, you need more help than any website will provide. Even if you don’t agree with what’s being talked about I think we need respect for different ideas or thoughts that may be different from our own interests or ideas.
Please step back, I am now stepping off the soapbox. hehe
Saturday, May 17th 2003 - 01:33:27 AM
Name: Mat Comments: J,
First of all, I am not upset. Believe me, there are a lot of other issues in the universal scheme of things that would upset me more! Topics on a website guestbook don't exactly stop the earth from spinning on its axis. (This is not to downplay Phil's hard work to maintain this site or minimize the beneficial effects it has had on many people's lives! ;->)
I just get frustrated when valuable time is lost debating topics that have no relevance in our daily lives. Whether or not homosexuality is naturally occuring in the animal kingdom does not aid any of us in coping with these feelings. I am not trying to control what topics are discussed here, resent the suggestion that I am, and refuse to stoop to the level of making this personal.
Enough said!
Mat
Friday, May 16th 2003 - 04:11:20 PM
Name: -J- Comments: Who is to say there is not some form of homosexuality in the animal world? Obviously we are in this situation because the natural world was thrown off balance when sin entered the world. Its not something that major, but it is a little interesting.
Mat, why are you so upset? It sounds like you would prefer to have your own guest book so you could exclusively control what topics are covered???
Thanks for the links Scott.
Friday, May 16th 2003 - 07:11:24 AM
Name: Mat Comments: ENOUGH ALREADY ABOUT "GAY" ANIMALS, peeps!
I hate to seem rude, but: WHO CARES? In the vernacular of an African-American male who lives in the Southern US: "Y'ALL ARE TRIPPIN'!" Whether or not homosexuality naturally occurs in the animal kingdom is not relevant to our lives or service to Jehovah! Could Crystal perhaps comment on David's question concerning gay sisters' acceptance of the term "lesbian"? Or someone tell us about their elder body's reception to disclosure of their homosexual feelings? Or what they observe about people they suspect to be gay that they run into every day? There are much more interesting things in life we can discuss!
Mat
Thursday, May 15th 2003 - 11:43:33 AM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Chrystal, our Secretary meant that the whole relationship/sex/partnership thing was just as difficult for heterosexuals. I am not sure if I ENTIRELY agree with him, but he made me think, and I can see his point.
Folks, I want to apologise if my horse joke (I have asked Phil to remove it) a couple of posts ago was offensive. It was simply meant in a daft vein, as sometimes I think I get a bit 'po-faced'. But it may have been a bit unsuitable, really.
Working with worldly people and listening all the time to their jokes, one can lose the distinction between what is suitable and what isn't. So I'm sorry if I strayed too far. Try not to be offended with me please.
Best regards,
D.
Thursday, May 15th 2003 - 02:51:51 AM
Name: A Casual Observer Comments: No Derry, Scott is not a closet evolutionist. He's only a closet communist. Sorry of the track of this whole conversation just had to say that :p
Wednesday, May 14th 2003 - 11:56:04 PM
Name: Chrystal Comments: Hello all. David, you kind of lost me with one of your comments (BTW I always enjoy your comments :). You wrote "He said we should realise that it was really no less difficult for heterosexuals." What is no less difficult?
Thank you,
Chrystal
Wednesday, May 14th 2003 - 10:29:51 PM
Name: David Comments: I forgot to say, apropos animals:
Some animals eat their young.
But while I sometimes feel like taking drastic measures to quieten some puling and whining brat or other, I am inclined to hope that I can maintain a sufficient distance between myself and the brute beast to rule out so omnivorous an option.
Homosexual animal behaviour is no excuse for homosexual human behaviour, methinks.
Heehee.
D.
Wednesday, May 14th 2003 - 10:22:11 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Hey Scott, I think you raise a very interesting point indeed, and one that bears serious consideration: the idea that ALL sexuality is to some extent abnormal in imperfect humans. There is much truth in that. The heterosexual sexuality represented in Rap Culture, for example, is surely not what Jehovah intended. Women were surely not meant to be chattels - Adam before he sinned surely never called Eve his Bitch. (And nor, for that matter, did Eve call Adam HER Bitch!)
Scott, I was looking at your Blogspot and was startled to note that you addresed something I was recently thinking about for myself - the relationship of homosexual sin to the others mentioned in 1Cor 6. I will perhaps write more about this later. But meantime will mention in passing that Awake! in 1980 pointed out that homosexuality is NOT singled out as worse that the other sins at 1Cor6. You can read this is the Extracts page of this site. Interesting also is a Question from Readers a couple of years ago which asked, do Jehovah's Witnesses take gluttony as seriously as drunkenness? The answer essentially was, Yes, but it is much harder to identify. That's relevant to this discussion.
Going back to your point about perfect gender relationships, my friend (of my last posting) made a point which I am still thinking about. He suggested that maybe certain of the attributes of 'gay' men are actually nearer to what was intended for perfect men, that certain cultural stereotypes of 'straight' men fostered in many societies today. An interesting thought. Another thought relevant to your point, is one put to me by our Cong. Secretary, when I confirmed to him that I was 'gay'. He said we should realise that it was really no less difficult for heterosexuals. I am still pondering this, and have discussed it with another friend, but I think basically that he is right, upon reflection.
Best wishes all,
D.
Wednesday, May 14th 2003 - 03:10:45 AM
Name: Scott Comments: David,
I agree that your phrasing, "a very common subset of imperfect human sexuality" is more accurate and probably less likely to arouse fatuous ire than my terminology. There is no doubt in my mind that all human sexuality as we know it today is flawed, and dare I say so, male sexuality especially. When I look at male sexuality, homo or hetero, I have a litany of complaints and criticisms...the very fact that we see someone and want to have sex with them on the spot is evidence enough for me of a deep flaw. In perfection, even with no clothes about us, humans weren't meant to be instantaneously aroused like bunnies or horses the way we are today. Obviously I don't know what perfect sexuality is, but I do know what it is not.
Back to my original point, homosexuality is a naturally occuring phenomenon in humans and animals alike.
Tuesday, May 13th 2003 - 06:20:48 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Scott, I agree with you that it could be useful to have more than one site, so as perhaps to spread the load a bit.
I'm interested in your comments. Like you, I really like the "A lot of it about" article, and I think many bodies of Elders just do not yet realise this, and it's about time they did, maybe.
A friend of mine, who caem back to the Truth after some time in the world, said that when he told the Elders in his new congregation about being homosexually inclined, and that he had not been celibate while away, they "were a bit freaked out", though they handled his reproof with kindness and sympathy.
Now, this was in a city which is reckoned to have a very high proportion of 'gays'. Why on earth were the Elders 'freaked out'? Why on earth hadn't they come across it before?
I might take issue with your use of the phrase "normal subset of human sexuality". Depends on definition of 'normal'. I think it might be safer to put, "a very common subset of imperfect human sexuality".
What do you think?
Best regards,
David.
Tuesday, May 13th 2003 - 01:00:49 AM
Name: Scott Rosengarten Comments: Hello there, just linked to this site from JW Support. I think it's good to have more than one site on this topic...decentralize the organizing. I especially liked the page entitled 'there's a lot of it about.' The sooner everyone realizes that homosexuality is a normal subset of human sexuality, the happier we'll all be.
Saturday, May 3rd 2003 - 12:23:27 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
It occurs to me that we haven't heard, in all this interesting discsussion about terminology, from any Sisters on what they think of the term Lesbian.
Thursday, May 1st 2003 - 11:20:38 AM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Mat, thanks for your followup.
I think you are right in what you say about the comments in brackets. But consider this: It is actually quite a big thing for the Society (by approving the letter) to be saying, in 1986, "look, don't hate yourself, don't berate yourself. You can still feel good, proud of yourself, even, because you are coping successfully with an intractible problem. Don't beat yourself up because you've not managed to change all your feelings".
Presumably the Society, by printing the letter, is saying that the rest of us in the same situation should not hate ourselves. This touched a nerve with me because at around the same time this letter first appeared (how did I miss it!) I was subjected to excruciating questionings along just such lines by certain elders (who in time lost that privilege).
By putting 'cured' in inverted commas, the Society would seem to be acknowledging that "cure" in the sense of medical resolution, is not possible, and that it would be improper to use the term without inverted commas.
Best wishes,
David.
Thursday, May 1st 2003 - 07:30:19 AM
Name: Mat Comments: David,
Nice try, but I think you are making "much ado about nothing" and attempting to create a "tempest in a teapot" regarding the Letter from Readers extract! ;-) The brother simply meant that he realized that he had to love himself, instead of constantly berating himself for his feelings. The use of the word "cured" in quotation marks (to us Americans) was simply indicative of its use in a atypical manner. Normally it is used in reference to disease and not an emotional state.
David, I get the sense that you were implying that he was making an subconscious admission that his sexual orientation could not be altered and that he accepted this fact. Was this your intention? Or were you trying to start a discussion thread on self-esteem issues or a debate on whether sexual orientation can be changed (which I know is a favorite topic of yours)?
Mat
Wednesday, April 30th 2003 - 02:59:40 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Looking over the couple of 'From Our Readers' lettters that are now shown on the updated Extracts from the ilterature page, I was struck by a couple of things in the letter from G.C. in California. One is the inculsion of the words "and not myself" in brackets, and the other is the putting of the word "cured" in inverted commas.
Interesting, I thought!
Best regards,
David.
Monday, April 28th 2003 - 06:50:14 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Jas, that's an interesting question you pose, about how to respond to a stark question from a work colleague.
As it happens, I've never been asked outright if I was 'gay'. I think if I was directly asked like that, my answer might depend on how I felt about the person asking. It strikes me that any such question would probably be asked in a very friendly way by someone whose intetion was good, otherwise they would not ask (unless it was someone beiong really nasty, in which case no answer would forthcome).
I don't know what I would say. Depending how I felt about the questioner, i think I might respond to "are you gay?" with
"By inclination, yes, though not by practice."
or
"Christianity requires fidelity within marriage, and celibacy outside it. I am not married, so I am celibate" (Keep em guessing!)
or
"My sex life, or lack of it, is my own business" (Also keeps em guessing).
I related a while ago in "James's" Guestbook how, a few years ago, a work colleague asked me if romance hadn't happened for me. We were on a student trip, and he and I were chatting in the bar one night about his failed marriage.
He asked me the question, and at that time I didn't want to go into the thing about being 'gay'. So I just said to him, quite truthfully, "Well, in my religion, we can't mess about, it's marriage or nothiong, and I've never met a woman yet that I really clicked with".
That answered him satisfactorily at the time. But I think these days, I would be inclined to tell him the whole story, as I like him and trust his discretion.
I have in fact told two work colleagues: One, male, a longterm colleague, simply out of friendship, and the other, female, because (amazingly) she conceived a partiality for me. Interestingly, this female colleague gave it as her opinion that all of the 'coffeeroom' crowd of colleagues I mix with at work, think that I am heterosexual. I was interested to hear this view from her.
How would others handle such a direct question?
Best wishes folks,
David.
Monday, April 28th 2003 - 06:21:31 PM
Name: Jas Comments: Mat,
You are so right ... I suppose I got fed up with people asking me if I were Gay ... and yes ... in their mind this might have equated with "Was I having Sex?"
My mother gave me some good advice, when I was deliberating over how to explain my orientation yet at the same time give the balance of knowledge that as a Christian I remained celibate. She pointed out that these people were relative strangers and just because they had asked the question, it maybe didn't justify my giving them an answer.
You will note that I make no reference to how I answered my colleague at work ... I don't necessarily answer that type of question anymore. However, this sometimes leads me to feel some sort of 'community responsibility' in a sense,if people make the assumption that I am and the subsequent assumptions that go along with that. I don't want to feel burdened with having to educate people re: very personal situations in my life. So ... sometimes I don't answer. Is that wrong?
I would be interested to know how anyone else deals with an outright questioning of their sexual orientation from people in the world.
Just a thought
Jas
Monday, April 28th 2003 - 08:25:21 AM
Name: Mat Comments: Jas,
First, I would like to say that my intent in the post was not to belittle anyone or somehow devalue our suffering! Believe me, I feel your pain! My point is that we have to be careful in adopting non-Witness terminology and thinking when dealing with our orientation and the issues we face. We especially have to be careful in talking to non-Witnesses, making sure that we mean "gay" in the celibate, non-sexual sense, or we can end up bringing reproach on Jehovah's name and organization. Sure, I know what you mean by being called "gay", so do most brothers (and sisters) in this forum, but do the people to whom you admit this understand? The educated, open-minded population can, but how about the layman?
I realize that much of the controversy is due to cultural or regional differences, as here in the US, people have a hard time distinguishing sexual practice vs. orientation. There is also a "generation gap" (David and I have discussed this to a degree) among male Witnesses with this orientation. Older ones in their 30's or 40's tend to take more offense to being referred to in this way than, someone, say in their late teens or early 20's. It is due to the very different environments we grew up in. The 90's were much more permissive than the 60's, 70's or even 80's were. People are more open discussing this topic now. In the 60's you didn't even admit this to YOURSELF! ;-)
In short, I am not advocating self denial or deception. The key to controlling these impulses is to acknowledge their existence, but, at the same time, you cannot adopt the world's attitude that since you can't change your orientation, you may as well just accept it AND GIVE INTO IT! That's what I am trying to get across. Unless you are on a university campus, people equate "gay" with sexual activity and lifestyle, not orientation and celibacy! One-on-one with close confidants, sure, go ahead and exlplain away, but with general audiences, be careful.
Enough said...
Warmest regards,
Mat
Sunday, April 27th 2003 - 11:09:08 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
Jas, I enjoyed that personal account. Thanks for posting it and sharing it, much appreciated, and much I can relate to.
Best wishes,
David.
Sunday, April 27th 2003 - 07:46:12 PM
Name: Jas Comments: Well ... I promised myself that I would remain a silent observer when I happened across this site. But thought I'd throw my tuppence worth in re: the name of our clan, prompted I must add by Mat's mail.
I totally agree with you Mat re: the connotation of the word 'Gay', I think that it totally depicts a political agenda and specific lifestyle. However, I think that the issue isn't really about whether we should be called 'Gay', 'BHF' (don't like this one, by the way) or whatever. To me, the bigger issue is regarding identity as a whole.
Mat states that even if his orientation were entirely homosexual he would rather be refered to as a brother who had issues with his orientation.
My orientation is entirely homosexual and I have spent most of my adult life (and much of my youth) coming to terms with my orientation, to the point that my issue is not with identifying who I am, but in dealing with who I know I am.
I was brought up in the truth and left when I was 27 (not totally over this issue, but it was a big factor in my demise). I didn't have to 'come out' to people at work because they all assumed I was homosexual (which I am and to deny it would be to lie ... no?). Not associating with the organisation made it easy for me to use the 'gay' lable. When I decided to start associating with the congregation again I found that I needed to put people who now knew me as 'gay' in the picture of my cleaner lifestyle. I had no problem in telling the people I worked with that I was now celibate but even with that in-depth personal knowledge of me they still refered to me as 'gay'.
It is unthinkable for a lot of people in the world to imagine anyone, whether gay, straight or bi, not to be having sex. 'Gay' is the world's word, we use it because it clearly depicts the 'feelings' we have, but we would all have to be honest with ourselves regarding how 'gay' we live our lives .... No, I don't mean being disobient to Jehovah ... but consider this
(Sorry, now that I have started this has became a bit of ramble ... but please indulge me)
I changed my job as a result of re-associating with the congregation, in an attempt to make a fresh start ... when I started my new job, I told a few people that I was a Jehovah's Witness. I didn't tell anyone that I had been in a relationship with another guy for 3 years or that I had homosexual feelings. In fact, I didn't discuss my private life at all ... with anyone. After a few months, one of my colleagues asked me (much to my surprise) if I way 'gay'? I asked what made her think that I was? She said that a few of the people in my team had been discussing it and they had decided I was because of the following: my interest in the arts, the music I liked to listen to, the fact that I didn't 'eye up' many of the girls in the office (as the straighty's do), the fact that I looked after my appearance and because of my conversational technique.
I found this quite a burden because I couldn't stop doing all of the above, as that was the essence of my personality ... but oh my I felt burdened that my basic personality led people to suspect I was 'gay'. Whether I was having sex or not was not the issue for them, it was where my gender lay, what my orientation was. So in that sense, yeah I think I am quite 'Gay' and other than wearing sackcloth and ashes and never leaving the house again, there isn't really much I can do about this. But ...
At the end of the day, I know that I am not sinning against Jehovah and now that I have a proper handle on my orientation, for the first time in my life, I am able to learn to hate what Jehovah hates and for all the right reasons. No matter how people in the world view me or whatever assumptions they make, the important thing for me is to know who I am and to know that my relationship with Jehovah is good.
So ... to be honest ... I don't mind being labelled as anything, as long as I am sure of my own mind and sure of my relationship with Jehovah.
If you have any comments on my post I would be interested to hear them, but please don't slate me, because after having read over this message it doesn't read like it sounded in my head ;-)
Jas
Thursday, April 24th 2003 - 10:10:25 PM
Name: Phil Comments: Hello all,
Cory I agree with you. The interesting thing is, I find, that there are good points, and things to agree with, in all the posts, even of 'opposing' viewpoints. As long as suitably expressed, they all contribute to the discussion, and provoke thought.
So keep posting!
Phil.
Thursday, April 24th 2003 - 07:16:43 PM
Name: Cory Comments: There seems to be a great divide on the issue of "gay" as a label--is it a word we should use to describe ourselves? First of all, I do not intend to add to the discussion. I have already made my argument, and if anyone is interested, you may e-mail me and ask about my view and position on the matter.
On the other hand, there are many newcomers to the site, and if they want to comment on the issue, I don't think we should impede them. It is a very personal subject and it will continue to be debated. If it feels like it's like beating a dead horse, just bear with it. Afterall, what's this website for, if not to provide a forum for honest personal expression to enable interchange of ideas on what it means to be a "gay" witness?
Thursday, April 24th 2003 - 07:17:02 AM
Name: Mat Comments: Hello Everybody!
I just had to weigh in about this "gay" vs. BHF issue. I personally do not like the term "gay" applied to me. In my mind, the term is inextricably linked with sexual activity, a certain political agenda and lifestyle. That is true also, for the majority of non-Witnesses who hear the term. If they hear that a person is gay, are they going to even CONSIDER the possibility that the person is celibate or that it only applies to their sexual orientation? "NO!"
In addition, I am much more than my sexual orientation. Even if my orientation was entirely homosexual, that would not define who I was. I prefer to think of myself as a brother who has issues with his orientation, but is not defined or controlled by them. I can acknowledge their existence without letting them dominate my life. I will probably be accused of self-denial or of "splitting hairs" for saying this, but I had to put my "two cents" in! Call me a "BHF" or "heterosexually challenged", but please do not call me "GAY"!!!
Later,
Mat
Wednesday, April 23rd 2003 - 08:39:59 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hello Peeps,
David in Spain, thank you for that very eloquent and well-reasoned post. What you say makes such good sense and I agree with it. My main worry about using the term "gaywitness" was just in case it would stumble someone.
Don't apologise for the length of your post - it is excellent!
I think I would like to give it a page of its own, under the 'Your Page' category, so that it will always be just a click awway, for anyone coming new to the site. As time goes on, they would otherwise have to scroll through many postings to find yours.
How do you feel about that? Please let me know.
Phil.
Wednesday, April 23rd 2003 - 03:44:52 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi to everyone!,
First of all I want to thank Phil for creating this website. Tho I think this one will be useful as a complement of James' I would not personally like to see the establishment of dozens of websites like this, at least in English. Two websites is alright to complement each other. And I would like to see more in other languages so that those who do not speak English have the chance of finding out that they are not alone in this fight. It was great learning the other day of the recent existence of a website in Spanish. Really hope it fulfills its purpose and be a source of encouragement to the brothers and sisters of the many countries in which my language is spoken.
mmmm...it seems the topic on labels is back again. I don't tend to debate on this issue but I just want to drop a few lines this time. Anyways, there are more interesting and important things to talk about than discussing labels. I just want to write these lines for it surprises me how difficult it is for some to accept the terms "gay" or "homosexual". In my opinion using expressions such as "I'm heterosexually challenged" reflect the lack of acceptance of what is happening to us. Personally I wouldn't use it to describe my sexual orientation. I've nothing to do with heterosexuality so why use it in the description of my feelings? And if I have homosexual feelings, aren't I a homosexual or gay irrespective of the practice of it or not? The Spanish dictionary of the Royal Academy of Language reads: "Gay: relating to homosexuality". "Homosexuality: Inclination towards an erotic relation with individuals of the same sex; 2. Practice of such a relation". "Homosexual: Said of a person who has tendencies to homosexuality. 2. Said of an erotic relation that takes place between individuals of the same sex". In each entry two definitions are given showing that a homosexual is not only he who has sex with other guys but also he who just have the feelings, inclination or orientation. Interestingly the practice ot it is mentioned in second place. The most relevant definition that always comes in first place is that of the orientation not the practice. With this I'm not trying to impose my views on others. Everyone has the right to use the term he feels more comfortable with but just wanted to share with you why I choose to identify myself as gay or homosexual. Obviously, if you tell someone you are gay they will take for granted that you have sex with other guys but even if you are heterosexual if you tell someone you are dating a girl most of the people take for granted in this world that you have sex with her before getting married. So, It's us the ones who must explain people that we don't practice what we desire.
I know that there must be some who are a little bit lost about their feelings and are afraid of labeling themselves but in my case I have no doubts of which my sexual orientation is. I have never had any sexual thought with a girl and neither had I ever felt sexually attracted to them.I asked my parents, they already know I'm gay,: "From when did I say to you that I would never get married?" and they responded to me: "Almost your whole life. You have always said you would never get married even when you were a child". Tho I have always been conviced and sure which my sexual orientation is I must acknowledge that I once tried to deny what was happening to me and thinking maybe the problem was me. I can only say that trying to change the unchangable brought me much suffering and pain. And at present especially after knowing that I'm not alone but many other brothers and sisters are going through the same I'm more convinced than ever that this fight is not a fight against changing what I cannot but a fight against giving in ,which is much different, and remaining faithful to Jehovah till the end.
Conclusion: use the term you feel more comfortable with and let's respect each other.
Sorry for the long post and for boring you to death. Needed to vent my thoughts on this issue.
Hope you are all ok and hi to all my buddies.
Your brother,
David (Spain).
Tuesday, April 22nd 2003 - 02:43:10 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,I was struck by the article on PPD (Post-partum depression) in the recent Awake! The number one suggestion on getting help in coping, is to talk to others in the same situation.I thought that was very interesting. It encourages me to see the role of forums like this in a positive light.Best wishes,David.
Thursday, April 17th 2003 - 10:38:48 PM
Name: -J- Comments: I think TK boils this issue down to the bottom line. This is an issue of how comfortable you are with you own sexual feelings. It seems that people that have just recently admitted they have homosexual feelings would prefer to call it just that a “Brother with Homosexual Feelings”. This is similar to the “Bi Syndrome” that being that a lot of gay guys when they first come out identify as Bi-sexual and then when they are more comfortable with their feelings identify as Gay. David, what are your thoughts on this? I’ve just noticed that little trend. I know this is not a life threatening issue. Its just I am comfortable using the term gay and thus see no need to mask what it really is with another term.
Wednesday, April 16th 2003 - 06:33:20 PM
Name: TK Comments: Phil, My bad! I certainly did not mean to indicate that you are not also a busy person. I know I certainly would not have time to regulate this site either.Take care,TK
Wednesday, April 16th 2003 - 06:04:04 PM
Name: Phil Comments: Hello today peeps,
TK, thanks for your words of support, much appreciated!
Hey, you think I'm NOT a busy guy????? Joking! Am tho!
Respectin' our African/Chinese/Texan/Arizonan/Yorkshire friend, yes his sense of humour is interesting. Maybe when we too have been Regular Pioneering for more than twenty-five years, we'll be entitled to a wacky sence of humour too!
Warm wishes,
Phil.
Wednesday, April 16th 2003 - 01:57:26 PM
Name: TK Comments: I guess I dont have a problem with BHF, yes there could be some confusion, but I dont think this is a life threatening issue either. If it makes the person comfortable who is using it and helps them to deal with their feelings better, then that would seem most important, AS LONG AS it did not violate any bible principle or bring reproach on Jehovah's name.
Mr. Zulu does have an interesting sense of humor, but then many British do seem to go to the beat of a different drummer, based on my observations. But hey, if thats what "floats your boat" then what does it matter.
Wednesday, April 16th 2003 - 01:52:28 PM
Name: TK Comments: Greetings all. It is nice to have another site that gets updated regularly. Nothing against you James, I know you are a busy guy! I personally do not care for the term gaywitness, primarily because I feel the term "gay" associates those of us in this category with those in the world. However, this is not a life threatening issue and it is just my personal opinion. The most important thing is to get some support and understanding, which makes all the difference in the world!
Warmest regards!
TK
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 11:06:39 PM
Name: David Comments: Hi folks,
-J-, your post raises two points I had been thinking about myself lately. What you say chimes with my own thoughts.
The first point is this business of talking about 'homosexual feelings'. Sometimes the expression has been used in the literature in a way that suggests people get 'homosexual feelings' as an occasional abberation bobbing up in a sea of 'normal' sexual feelings. But for me, the phrase 'HF' falls so far short of what it's about. For me, it is a WHOLE ORIENTATION. I have never had a sexual feeling or dream or anything in my whole life that was not homosexual. (No, actually ONCE, when I was in my late teens, I had an erotic dream in which a character seemed vaguely female). I have NEVER had any 'Heterosexual Feelings'. The phrase was once used that "from time to time" some bros/sisters have these feelings. I do not recognise that. For me, it is EVERY time - and almost all the time!
What sense would it make to say that young men and women growing up 'from time to time' start to have feelings for the opposite sex? From time to time? Don't they joke that a young man thinks about sex every six seconds?? Yes, of course he sould endeavour not to do so, to focus on the other things in life so as not to become unhealthily obsessed. And so should those with homosexual feelings. But don't say it's 'from time to time'!
The other thing I was musing about, was the matter of APPEARANCE. Would it be wrong for two brothers (who may, or may not, each or both, be 'gay') to spend time together in public, simply because onlookers might ASSUME they were a 'gay' couple? I do not necessarily think so.
Consider: The Society still as far as I know assigns Pioneers, MTS graduates, in pairs to a congregation sometimes. They may share a flat. In my own congregation there was in recent times such a pair. And people DID assume they were a 'gay' couple! But the elders did not have a problem with it, the Bethel did not have a problem with it.
A Circuit Overseer friend of mine who visited me recently was reminiscing how, as far back as the mid 1970s, he was in the same position, and people assumed he and his pioneer partner were a 'gay' couple. (Tho it wasnt called gay in the 70s here). The congregation didn't have a problem with it, the Branch didn't have a problem with it.
SO THEN, is it a problem if I go for a meal or to a film with a male friend, and people assume we are a 'gay' couple??? I am at a stage in my life now, where I really don't care what 'people think', in certain respects. After all, too, if I met my female cousin for coffee or a meal, onlookers may well assume that we are an unmarried cohabiting couple. Does it matter????
What do you think folks?
Best wishes,
David.
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 08:56:00 PM
Name: -J- Comments: Phil,
I know you're going to get a lot of comments about the name of this site. Personally I have no problem with the name GAY. You’re not going to see me going around using that ridiculous term BHF. Heterosexual witnesses doing go around saying they are brothers with heterosexual feelings, which oddly enough is abbreviated to BHF. That is absurd! What is so wrong with the term gay??? It is simply a term that describes a known orientation. And does orientation mean sexually active? I just wish people could not be so uptight!
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 05:00:24 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hi there,
Cory, thank you very much for your two interesting posts.
I have to tell you that it was not without considerable qualms that I called the site 'gaywitness'. But the old-fashioned, and correct (and actually not that old - isn't there a nice Fred Astaire film called "The Gay Divorcee"? It doesn't mean homosexual!) usage meaning 'merry', is my get-out clause! I wanted to call the site something that search engines would find.
It appears also from discussions, that there is a considerable difference between UK and USA usage and import of the word 'gay'. In the UK, the word really refers to the inclination rather than the practice, and it does not neccessarily denote any lifestyle stereotypes at all. I understand that in the USA it is a bit different.
Cory, the African is NOT for real - and nor is the Hong Kong, the Texan, or the Yorkshireman. I was fooled for a few moments, then realised who they are from, and that it is a joke. So I let them through. I assure you that the sender is a good brother with no malicious intent whatever, but a robust sense of humour, and literary ability.
Keep posting, Cory!
Anyone want a Page? (See link Your Page!)
Phil.
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 04:34:37 PM
Name: Cory Comments: This is to Ebeneezer from "Zululand":
No offense, but I'm just wondering if you're for real. Just about everything in your story is really hard to believe--First off, I didn't know that a person in your part of Africa would name their child after a character in a Dickens novel. And your elder mixed some rhino horn concoction cure for homosexuality? It just sounds like something that a Voodoo witchdoctor would do--I guess it's ok, as long as your elder isn't casting spells and calling up spirits. Hey, if that really works, I bet it tastes horrible, but anyway, I'm sure we'd all give it a try. I'll have to put rhino horn on the shopping list the next time I go to the store. :) Oh, yeah, and another thing: maybe I misunderstood, but I think you said all the bros. in your congregation are gay???? I know what they said about black people, but come on! If some of the bros. were heterosexual, I don't think it would matter that all your women are fat--I see fat men and women together all the time (but maybe that's just because America is so obese). I didn't mean to make fun, Scrooge, but I think everyone from this side of the world is wondering if you're for real.
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 04:18:55 PM
Name: Cory Comments: Hey everyone! I'm encouraged by the fact that James's revolution is spreading--that someone else with the same sincere intent as James to have an encouraging site for fellow Witnesses has decided to publish his own website. One suggestion, though: while the name for the website is ok--nothing wrong with "gaywitness," I guess, so that others can easily find it, I think your effort to reinvent the word "gay" to mean what it used to mean is impossible now--the word is too loaded in its present meaning, and personally, I hate to use the word to refer to either homosexuals or happy people--and especially, the two meanings shouldn't combine (why should we pretend that we're merry and carefree, when we're really depressed?--While we may come to this site and to the meetings, etc., for encouragement, I still don't think most of us would describe ourselves as "carefree").
Tuesday, April 15th 2003 - 12:19:14 AM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: This is a test. Please ignore.
Monday, April 14th 2003 - 04:04:56 AM
Name: muzik1 Comments: I like this site so far. I have no problem with the name either. So keep up the good work.
Music while writing this: Klea – Tic Toc (Just for you Sam Greenbum ;)
Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 03:06:47 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hello again everyone.
I forgot that I wanted to comment on the name of the site.
I have to admit that I am not antirely sanguine about the name "gaywitness". But I wanted a name the might register in a relevant way with search engines, and I figured that seekers after a site like this, might enter something like "gay Witnesses" or somesuch, in a search engine like Google or Altavista.
My way of 'legitimising' the name of the site is to point out that 'gay' has a fine old dictionary meaning! It is certainly not wrong to want to be merry and carefree!
Hope this is acceptable.
Phil.
Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 03:00:07 PM
Name: Phil Homepage URL: http://www.witnesses.plus.com Comments: Hello there folks,
Thanks so much for signing my Guestbook!
Mat, you ask about my motivation in setting up the Website. (Which was not too difficult, but a steep learning curve for me!)
I have drawn so much encouragement from James's jwsupport site. But it's being the only one based in the UK, and indded the only 'good' one at all, left James somewhat exposed, and sometimes I worried about the level of pressure on him. Then too, if James takes a break from updating his Guestbook, as he did recently for quite a few weeks, then the 'narrative drive' of any discussion in the Guestbook tends to be lost. So I thought if there was an additional facility, it could 'take up the slack' in some ways.
The aim is definitely not to steal James's thunder or detract from his invaluable work in any way. I am sure we are all most grateful for all that his site has meant to us.
Fond regards to all,
Phil.
Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 03:45:41 AM
Name: Marc Comments: Most everyone knows me. You love me or hate me...few find a comfortable middle ground. I just have one of those personalities which is best taken in small doses, unless you have developed some kind of immunity. In any case, hello. I was one of the first to find the Support site and post a comment. Here it is:
Date: 1999-04-05 23:35:00
Marc ( cusmar@netscape.net / no homepage) wrote:
This site has resulted in a great resource in dealing with the tremendous challenge of being gay, celibate and loyal to Jehovah God and his earthly organization. The road we have chosen is not easy, but "in due time we shall reap". We owe it to God to be faithful regardless of the personal cost, but we do not need to pay this price alone. We have a special brotherhood that can be a strength and a source of much needed validation. Carry on as men, brothers, in true spirit and love!
I guess I should have been standing on a soap box with banners waving behind me..."Carry on as men, brothers!..." all the while, inspirational music should have been flowing from a full orchestra.
Well excuse me! I was excited to find others who could understand how I felt, giddy with expectation over friends I could meet. Unfortuantely this manifested itself in sappy postings. You should also know, I had come out to my entire hall, family, work associates, and friends in April of the previous year and still had a buzz from that. It has been 5 years now since dropping the act and FOR ME it has been the right decision. I DO NOT endorse anyone else following my lead. That is your deal and I wouldn't even begin to prompt a "Coming Out".
With that said, I want to conclude by saying that communicating with other brothers and sisters who share this challenge has greatly improved the quality of my life and I count them as integral in my enduring this system.
Whoever is running this site should realize the responsibility he/she has and not take it lightly. We would never want to stumble anyone...in or outside of the organization. Philia Marc
Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 01:02:59 AM
Name: Cafeaulaitman Comments: Hello Y'all!
As an American, I have no clue what the Yorkshireman just said! (hehehe) Could someone translate it into "American" for me? Something about millers and miners? Huh?....
At any rate, thank you Phil for creating such a forum! I can only imagine the amount of time and effort it takes! Perhaps you can start off by telling us your purpose in starting another Website and the issues you want to address. Are there particular issues the "heterosexually challenged" in Britain face, as opposed to the rest of the world? Please share a little about yourself...
All the best!
Mat
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