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| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Cohen, welcome. I hope you will find lots of encouragement. If you have emailed me I apologise for the delay in replying. I am at pre-convention work and don't at the moment have access to email. |
| Name: | Cohen |
| Comments: | Hello everyone,
For the first time ever I went looking for a site like this, and I am so glad I've found it. I'm 32, serving in a foreign language congregation as a elder, and am struggling at the moment to keep my integrity.Although I'm married, and my wife is well aware of my homosexuality, I'm finding it tough to keep on fighting.It sounds strange for someone who is married, but my emotional loneliness is getting a burden. Hope to be on the forum soon, just need a bit of a boost. Thanks and blessings everyone, Cohen |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | R.A, it is the understanding of Jehovah's Witnessess that God permits sexual intimacy only within faithful monogamous marriage of a man to a woman.
The tender caress of children by their mother, or the warm embrace of a man by his brother after being apart, or the affectionate stroking of a pet, do not normally (and certainly should not) constitute sexual expression. |
| Name: | R.A |
| Comments: | What's the deal with a man caressing, holding, and kissing another man? I've seen many people (JW included) doing the same with their pets. I never have heard anyone pointing to them as 'practicers of bestialism.'
People are worth way more than animals. It is very well seen, in no case a shameful thing, going to a spa or an expensive health 'n care center just to have someone else to give us a body massage. In contrast if it is a friend, a person we love, who shows us any simple physical affection makes us sinners and evildoers. Loving someone else is not a matter of sex. All the beautiful, fulfilling emotions that come along with it are incomparable. It’s a wonderful feeling that makes life extraordinary. Sharing simple things with someone we love is a very unique experience. The physical chest is not big enough to hold the very special; burning emotions loving someone else ignites. And if we are loved in return… NOTHING compares with it. I never have shared this with anybody else, but I can tell you now: Love and being loved is the most fascinating, special, out of this world thing ever experienced. I am a man, and there is another man I love. We never have had any sex, at all. And, you know what, we do not need it. And we love each other so dearly, so very special and wonderfully. I do not pretend to cause any damage to any of you. This note might not even be posted. It is my need to let it being known though. Thank you and wish the best for all. |
| Name: | Joey |
| Comments: | Hello everyone! It's nice to see this website. I'm a pioneer in my early twenties who has also served at Bethel and this is the first time I've reached out to any other Witnesses who have the same feelings as me. It's nice to know that I'm not alone in my struggle, which can be very, very difficult at times. (As if many of you don't know that for yourselves.) Please email me if you'd like to talk. I'd love the support of others in dealing with this. |
| Name: | a |
| Comments: | hi all,just discovered this site,and been frankly amazed,am clearly not alone or weird!am 36,i think struggled with these feelings all my life.would love to here from others,and to sound out my expreriences.a |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | T.L., in your original post you mention having wondered if there were others in your situation in the Christian congregation.
As I am sure you know by now, there certainly are! Knowing that one is not alone with a difficulty makes that difficulty much easier to cope with, as I and others have found. Because of the rather private nature of sexual orientation, and the fact that same-sex desire is not readily spoken of, either in society at large or in the Christian congregation, most have found it difficult, prior to the existence of the internet, to discuss the subject and to find support. But now we are in a position to exchange thoughts and encouragement with others in a similar situation. This makes a great difference. It is my earnest hope that you will find encouragement, through the Scriptures and through Christian association in your own congregation and with the brothers and sisters who contribute to this site, to continue in the Christian race. We know that this race is a long-distance marathon, not a 100-yard sprint, so that even if there are times when we stumble, or feel our energy dip, we can still recover and complete the race. Very best wishes. Phil. |
| Name: | T.L |
| Comments: | Becky and Enoch,
I just wanted to say thank you for your encouraging words. Becky or anyone, if you don't mind talking privately that would be great. |
| Name: | Becky |
| Comments: | My dear sister T.L.,
There ARE others like you. Some persevere and others are overwhelmed by legitimate needs for intimacy ....needs for love and acceptance. My 18 year old daughter is struggling with this right now. I have a different view of the causes of same sex attraction than Phil and also a different idea of things to be done to alleviate same sex attraction. I do however agree with Phil that Jehovah is our most important relationship and our ultimate goal is to attach securely to him and I am grateful that Jehovah has given him the strength to continue to provide this important place of refuge for the friends who struggle with same sex attraction. I would be happy to share with you what I have found in my research on lesbianism and about some of the woman I have met who have overcome this and what they have found to be helpful.. Phil can send you my email address and you may contact me privately. You are all in my prayers always.....Know Jehovah cherishes each of you as you struggle to remain chaste. Even if you slip up..keep trying...don't give up. Becky |
| Name: | T.L |
| Comments: | Allow me to add, that I am sorry for any confusion my post have caused. I was merely asking for help. Grammar is important, but I find that it is irritating when someone is sharing his or her feelings with others. I was simply trying to acknowledge that I am active in the truth. In addition, while others are proficient in Grammar, they lack other qualities; simply put we are not perfect.
As of this moment, I do hate that I share my thoughts and feeling. Phil, thanks for all your encouraging words |
| Name: | Enoch |
| Comments: | Phil, I am not knocking your scriptural council, merely making the valid point that by adding the grammar lesson it confuses the love you are showing. It makes it look like you are using the forum to elevate yourself. The argument that her faith can be evaluated by the usage of Jehovah's name is nutty. What is the big picture? She still fighting for Jehovah and wants to do the right thing. Big picture view would be the best. The forest for the trees...the forest for the trees. (need not be posted as I don't relish public fights and how it will look to others) |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Cafeaulaitman, your grasp of vocabulary and grammar are, as always, a delight to me, and one of the many felicities of our discourse.
The comment you make respecting the possessive case with "boss" is valid for British English usage as much as American. You and Enoch do me a little less than justice, I feel. Firstly it may be pointed out that the response below did refer directly to the crisis of faith of the sister. I took the time and trouble to note Scripture reference and to look up specific WT articles and paragraphs that it seemed might help - in addition to those I have already typed up on the Literature page of the site. Each of you gentlemen is cordially invited to make similar contributions, if you are willing to give the sister your time. Secondly there is the perhaps subtle point that what was said about correct naming is not a mere grammatical quibble but is in fact central, in my opinion, to helping the sister in her crisis of faith. Who are Christians, what does it mean to belong to God and Christ? How do we appreciate our role as witnesses standing in the dock we call the Earth, offering testimony as character witnesses, testifying to humans and all other intelligent creation as to the character of the One who owns us? The name we use makes this role explicit, and it helps our faith if we understand it and get it right. |
| Name: | Cafeaulait |
| Comments: | Come on, Phil, give the sister a break! A lesson in possessives when she is facing a major crisis in her faith? (shock)
I must admit, though, that this is a major pet peeve of mine. I even had a co-worker refer to us as "Jehovahs", which was even worse. I pointed out to her that this was being disrespectful of God's personal name and she stopped. Oh, and I think that "boss's" can also be rendered as "boss'", as it already ends in "s". (Or is that an American rule?) Please remind me to be grammatically correct when I next correspond with you. :-) |
| Name: | Enoch |
| Comments: | The sister who is dealing with such troubling times in her life hardly needs a grammar lesson. Gnat straining or "helpful" criticism can be annoying. I believe you meant well but I think we would all feel better and more apt to participate if you didn't correct us when we write in. (this need not be posted) |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | T.L., you write that you are considering whether to remain a part of the Christian Congregation.
Understandably it can seem very difficult at times to cope with sexual feelings which we are not in a position scripturally to indulge. As you can see on the Literature page of this site, Awake! magazine has in the past acknowledged that the effort to remain celibate can at times seem "agonisngly difficult" for a Christian. Nontheless, Christ has said as recorded at Mark 8:34 "If anyone wishes to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and follow me continually". Those who seek to be witnesses for God and Christ the King give evidence of this by public baptism following personal dedication to God in prayer. That dedication, as Christ, God's chief witness indicated at Mark 8, means CONTINUALLY following the Christian way, and "disowning onself", - acknowledging that our life belongs to God and that it is for Him to direct what we may do. To leave the Christian congregation would mean abandoning the promise made to God at the time of our dedication. It might be helpful to you to review again the two Study articles in The Watchtower of April 1 2006, especially paragraphs 16 and 17 on page 25. The first study article in the March 15 issue of The Watchtower may also encourage you. Is there perhaps a mature Christian sister in your congregation in whom you may confide, so as to obtain some help and encouragement? The strong and sympathetic support of others in our congregations can truly help us to continue to follow Christ. In case English is not your first langauge, may we please just kindly mention that the phrase "A Jehovah Witness" makes no sense grammatically. We may illustrate thus: "One of John's shoes", not "A John shoe" "One of Gayle's sisters", not "A Gayle sister" "One of Tom's books", not "A Tom book" "One of the boss's workers", not "A boss worker" "One of the King's stewards", not "A King steward" "One of Christ's slaves", not "A Christ slave" "One of God's servants", not "A God servant" "One of God's witnesses", not "A God witness" "One of Jehovah's servants", not "A Jehovah servant" "One of Jehovah's witnesses", not "A Jehovah witness". |
| Name: | Enoch |
| Comments: | I have a friend who is fighting the battle we all face. He is having a particularly rough time as of late. I'd like to remind the readers of the power of prayer and our need to offer it up often to God. Even the faceless and nameless will benefit from our pleadings to the Hearer of prayer. Remember, it is likely that each one of us is being considered in someone elses conversations with Jehovah so it is only right and loving that we do the same. We are in this together although separated. |
| Name: | T.L |
| Comments: | Hi, I'm a active Jehovah Witness. I have been considering what to do, should I stay in or go. As I get older I have needs, I always wonder if others feel like me. I'm a Lesbian in chicago. |
| Name: | Temperance |
| Comments: | Hi, I am Temperance from England. |
| Name: | lonelyguy |
| Comments: | Hey Temperance,
You wouldn't, by chance, be from Temperance, MI, would you? If so, I am right next door. Please let me know. |
| Name: | Temperance |
| Comments: | Dear Brothers and Sisters
So good to hear all your heart felt comments. Very up-buliding and strengthening. Thank you! Jehovah be with you. Agape: Temperance |
| Name: | Nik |
| Comments: | just a quick hi to you all and hope everyone is well !
This site is cool ! lol |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Thank you for that! Very encouraging! |
| Name: | alabar |
| Comments: | hello phil,
I notice your answers are always to the point, and nicely said. Sometimes i read the postings, and the next day i run to the computer to see what answer you gave...to see if you have seen our strang not quit good raisoning. but always you get us back on the right track. good for you. stay humble after this....... keep on going the good way! alabar |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | The following observations need not be taken as relating exclusively to the post by “Leon” below.
Regarding some of the complexities of certain matters which can affect a Christian’s standing within and without the Christian Congregation, we might make the following observations: 1) A person cannot be excluded from association with the Christian congregation due to having had sex outside of God’s marital arrangement if he or she has not HAD sex outside of God’s marital arrangement. The publications of Jehovah’s witnesses make it crystal clear that there is a major difference between the DESIRE to do wrong things, and actually doing them. (See the “Literature” page of this site). 2) The idea that God’s Spirit will at this time remove wrong desires or even psychological or psychosexual problems from a person’s mind is absurd. No elder who qualifies for that office can believe that the persistence of unwanted sexual, gender, or depressive feelings represents resisting God’s Spirit. The Watchtower June 1 1983 says “Yet the bible makes a distinction between the PRACTICE of what is bad and sinful desires or tendencies. These desires may be present despite determined efforts to eradicate them from mind and body.” Please see also other quotes on the Literature page. Many in the Christian congregation, just like those outside it, have to take medicines to treat depression, bipolar disorder, or other conditions affecting feelings and the mind. This is not an indication of lack of spirituality. See, for example, the life story "You Do Not Know What Your Life Will Be Tomorrow" in The Watchtower of 1 December 2000. 3) “Gender dysphoria” is a complex issue. Perhaps especially so when there is a known physical biological aspect involved such as Klinefelter’s Syndrome. The position of Jehovah’s Witnesses has been that “the Christian congregation would not be able to allow a person to live a life opposite to the sex he or she is biologically and to remain a part of the congregation. This would be true even if one submitted to an operation that changed the physical body to give the appearance of one of the opposite sex” 4) We are not personally aware of what definition the Christian Congregation uses of “the sex he or she is biologically”. We presume that elders handling such cases must know what that definition is. (How can they judge whether a person is living a life opposite to the sex they are biologically, if they do not know how a person's biological sex is defined?) If one contemplating surgery and a change of gender role was able to establish that such was in order to CONFORM with “the sex he or she is biologically”, we presume that this would not be a problem for the congregation. We do not know to what extent Klinefelter’s or other biological abnormalities may establish a basis for such a claim. 5) The arranging of surgery and the adoption of a different gender role in life are presumably matters that would take place over a period of time. It seems unlikely that a member of the Christian congregation could get to the END of such a process without having discussed the matter with mature Christians somewhere along the way. Such discussions with elders and other mature Christians, possibly including research into medical aspects, would surely appropriately take place from the VERY BEGINNING of awareness of the difficulty. 6) When a decision is taken that an individual must be excluded from association with the Christian congregation, the individual is told that he or she has the right to appeal against the decision, and the matter will then be investigated afresh by a different committee. 7) An individual who is troubled over a matter and is finding it difficult to research or resolve it on his or her own, can always write to the local Branch Office or to the world headquarters of the Christian congregation for advice, being careful to clearly outline clearly and accurately the nature of the problem. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Leon, an elder who is interested in what you posted asked if he might have your email address. If you are willing to provide it privately in an email to owner@gaywitness.f9.co.uk it can be passed to him. You may be assured of confidentiality. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | j.b., taking into consideration past correspondence and your relatively long association with this site and its predecessor, it seems pertinent to ask you to consider carefully whether travelling alone is prudent.
It might also be observed that, while travel can certainly be broadening, it is perhaps at home in our own setting that we best learn to know ourselves, in our dealings with those around us. The answer is not magically "out there". |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | hello and welcome, charles and any other new ones! j.b. is an alias for me: not my real name, in other words. i'm 25, male, homosexual, masculine engendered, born, raised, and currently living in the united states. also born, raised, and currently in the truth; although, lately, i've been having sort of a tough time at it. i'm also looking for friends, and am planning on travelling alone this summer as part of my ongoing identity development tour. talk to you guys later! |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Leon,
I'm so sorry--your elder's treatment (or actually, mistreatment) of your situation is absolutely horrifying. Keep praying about it, and don't lose faith in Jehovah. Have you presented the elders with information about your condition you have found through research? It's a shame when prejudice from the world affects the ones who are supposed to be shepherds of Jehovah's people. What about going to a different congregation? Have you thought about that as an option? Surely, if you're struggling with gender identity and related medical issues, you don't need additional guilt and anxiety from your congregation, something that's supposed to be there for support. It sounds like you need to explore different life options, but definitely don't isolate yourself. Of course, I don't know you and am not really in a position myself to be giving advice, but it sounds like you need to surround yourself with people who are supportive, rather than critical. It's counter-productive to your spirituality to be associating with people who insist on being ignorant and demeaning. |
| Name: | Leon |
| Comments: | Hello,
It's been a while since I made en enterence here. Since short I have been shut out of the community because I am transsexual/genderdysphorial also with hormone dissorders in the hypofyse. Since I have also serveral body dysfunctions because of that, I have to go through a sex-change if I want to make myself ''whole'' and honest. The elders didn't do any research to medical lecture (although I asked them to do) and just shut me out of the community with no regrets based on: Romains 1:23-32. They talked over and over again about homosexuality and ''it is between your ears''. -You must know that I didn't have any sex or lust for sex whatever. It is NOT a sexual problem and has even nothing to do with it!-. They also judged that ''I didn't had Jehovahs spirit because otherwise he would made it clear in my head''. When I told them I was born with it and prayed always to Jehovah and searched his whisdom and spirit in the congregations. They said that it was spilled time(??) since Jehovah would gave me strength and whisdom if I let him. So I was fighting his spirit all that time they say... I asked them what they would do if I had 100% klinefelthersyndrome? ''Then those people have to come infront of the commity too'' they said. ''Jehovah has made me a woman, so be one, and accept that''. Then I compared it with; born with other (sex)abnormitees wich people have and go to a docter to fix it. They gave no descent comment and keep talking about being ''gay''. I didn't fight such shortseeing and stupidity further and after their judgement I left the kingdomhall crying, since I just want to be a witness still.. So, I'm pronounced ''dead'' while I can't help my abnormity. That is a sad and heavy judgement to bare.... Agape, Leon |
| Name: | Charles |
| Comments: | I have found that I want to have conversation with other witnesses that feel the same as me. I think this will keep me away from wordly people. Exploring the ways of the world. |
| Name: | nebby |
| Comments: | Hi darth-bane,
I made a similar experience. I have changed the congregation about one year ago. I moved closer to where I work, and so I had to change the congr. I had to decide wether to attend a spiritual strong congr. or to attend an spanish congr. with scared me a lot, cuz of their reputation. Anyway after this congregation was mentioned in the assembly as a congr. that needed help, I decided that it was time to give something back. It was the best thing I could do. I got many new good friends and I really feel loved and welcome in this tiny new environment. It is also new, that these new friends encourage each other in spiritual goals, which has helped me a lot too. As you say, its not the recipe for everyone, but it may be a good step. Greets to you all nebby |
| Name: | Darth-Bane |
| Comments: | Hey all,
I just made an important life-change that's helped a lot and was long overdue. After careful consideration, prayer and a lot of legwork, I decided it was time to attend a new congregation. Now, I recognize that that's not the solution for everyone. Oftentimes, we mask our own deficiencies by laying blame on others. But in this particular case, I felt strongly after 15 years that the congregation wasn't a healthy spiritual environment for me. This was confirmed by quite a number of factors, including several mature brothers and sisters who strongly concurred with my observations and a few who are looking to find a new spiritual home themselves. Nevertheless, starting over can be a frightening step and making new friends takes time. Also, the abused child syndrome can get in the way of taking the necessary steps. Again, this isn't the answer for everyone, and it's not even a cure-all. But it doesn't hurt to visit other congregations in the area (or even move to a new area if that makes economic sense) and meet new brothers and sisters (which is always a good idea). What does matter is that you do your homework and examine any potential new cong. first. Of course, there are no guarantees, and like with any change, risk is involved. A strong spiritual congregation, however, will help you to prioritize and grow spiritually stronger. There is a palpable difference when you find a congregation that despite trials and imperfections is happy and thriving and displaying Christian traits in abundance, and often you'll find that being service-oriented is a big part of that reason. For too long, I was feeling that the talks from the platform were little more than empty, hollow platitudes. But being in a cong. where the elders and friends actually display love to one another has been an eye-opening experience for me and a demonstration of the truth in action. It's also a breath of fresh to start anew somewhere where people don't know your business and you can be more discerning with who you speak to about personal matters. At any rate, if you've made it through my long diatribe above, congratulations! |
| Name: | Jude |
| Comments: | JB, I think you need some help of the medical variety. Also, you're bringing a bad name to my initials! |
| Name: | jb |
| Comments: | just wanted to say hi to everyone, still struggling, need help and a friend BAD!. . .feel like I'm losing the battle. . .tired of just encouragement. . .need someone to talk to who I can see and hear (smell, perhaps, if he smells like chocolate or pencil shavings or something. . .:)) I don't know. . .is this wrong?. . .what's everyone think? |
| Name: | oliver |
| Comments: | now its my turn to second phil. what you said in your reply to "sits on the sidelines" is very true, i can confirm it. my personal experiences are the very same.
i remember a sister complaining about her congregation, their were no love in it. the circuit overseer, she complained to, said to her: my dear sister, that simply cant be true! at least your love is in the congregation!! -- i mean, we can really contribute a lot on ourselves! please do everything to draw close to jehovah and your local congregation. It's vital. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear "Sits on the Sidelines",
You sound very down, and I am sorry to contemplate that. You mention your difficulties with friendships, and it seems that you feel lonely. Respecting "I've grown distant from the congregation myself because of having friends from this site": That is worrying. The "Legal" page of this site says "It is not intended for this site to be: a) an alternative means of distribution of Watchtower articles or: b) a substitute for Christian association and teaching within local congregations". I sould like to suggest kindly and respectfully that if you have experienced problems in relation to your own congregation, it may not be because of the mere existence of this site. Perhaps I may use an analogy to illustrate what I mean: It happens from time to time that a less-than-happily married person may encounter in the course of attendance at Christian meetings a sympathetic person, maybe similarly placed. Sadly, such situations have occasionally resulted in adultery. Can persons in that situation say "We commited adultery because of the existence of Christian meetings"? Would that be fair? Surely the difficulty has lain in the individuals' response to their situation. Some years ago I noticed a person in the guestbook of another website, who came from another country, whose language I spoke a little. The person expressed lonliness and a sense of isolation. I made an effort, with dictionaries, to email that person twice. No reply was ever received. After a time, I wondered ruefully and perhaps a little cynically, if that person's feeling of lonliness and isolation might possibly have arisen because he was uncivil and self-centred. For me, I know that it is happy association within my own congregation and with friends nearby, that keeps me going. Friendships and correspondence with those more distant, are a bonus. The very best advice for you, in view of what you have said, is probably that you never visit this site again, but exert yourself vigorously in supporting, assisting, and befriending those in your own congregation. |
| Name: | Sits on the Sidelines |
| Comments: | Hi Darren
When I read your post I thought I was reading my own. Does a friend have to be in the UK? I suppose that would help greatly. Yeah, if i had a friend where i live i wouldn't need to check in with this site often. Doesn't help having friends elsewhere, too much heartache if you ask me, unless you move to where they are. I've grown distant from the congregation myself because of having friends from this site. I long to be with my friends because I don't get love from my own hall. On the other hand my friends could care less if i lived where they are since they have their own problems to deal with. It's a lose/lose situation. Take care. |
| Name: | lb |
| Comments: | To Oliver & Phil,
I appreciate your kind words. I have had difficult situations in my walk in the truth, as we all have, and one scripture that I find comforting during really difficult times is in Lam 3:25, 26: 25 Good is Jehovah to the one hoping in him, to the soul that keeps seeking for him. 26 Good it is that one should wait, even silently, for the salvation of Jehovah. Sometimes it seems like a really long wait, but ultimately it's good to remember that Jehovah knows our hearts, and what is troubling us, and he will help. In the meantime there will be some friends that will be encouraging, and some not so, but we have to remember that Jehovah hand-picked each and everyone of us, so he sees our potential in a perfect world, not our short-comings in this evil system. Keep up your spirts, and your spirituality. |
| Name: | Andrew22 |
| Comments: | Dear Darren,
Just wanted to say something. I can't tell you how much I feel sorry that you have to suffer from the difficulties (I know that's hardly the word to describe the misery of loneliness) that you're having. I am personally familiar with the pain of not having a close special friend and I realise that it can be immensely painful. Judging by my own experience and that of some of my friends, I believe that not having close companionship is anything but natural for human beings. It seems that it is not at all uncommon for lonely people to feel that they do not want to live any more - things should not at all be that way, "it is not good - and, since this was said by Jehovah himself, not normal - for the man to continue by himself". In such a situation, having opportunities that are always there to have close association with those one is not sure one has enough in common with, can be a factor contributing to the frustration - I have felt that way myself. It can really be not easy making a close friendship in one's own congregation - even living there for years! I most sincerely hope that you can find what you need with the help of the website. I can say that I've been able to form some very valuable and rather close friendships this way. Please, do not feel that you should in any way blame yourself for having to suffer from this. I do hope you are not feeling worse now than you did. Warmest regards |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear lb,
I want to second what Oliver has said (and he is a fellow of the utmost sagacity). And also to say to you that I think you done raised a good son. Warm regards. |
| Name: | oliver |
| Comments: | dear lb,
thank you very much for your kind and loving words you found for us. i think it was for me one of the most encouraging posts i ever read here. of course to be able to get in contact with other brothers and sisters who share the same feelings was a great help to get some of these questions and negative emotions out of my head. on the other side are we pretty insular on this website and others with similar content. sad to say, but still it isn't a subject to talk about in our congregations. unfortunately until now even our elders didn't get any training to handle questions involving a brother or a sister with homosexual feelings, who lives a chaste life. so if one of us comes out to a brother, looking for support, it's mostly up to the very personal understanding and power of judgement of this particular person. it can be good and supportive (like your kind words) or it can be discouraging, judgemental and disapproving. a lot of us went through this. all the more i appreciate the insight, loving kindness and care expressed by your thoughts you posted here. thank you very much and may jehovah bless you. happy to have you with us. |
| Name: | bri |
| Comments: | Welcome Darren:
Your post struck a cord with me and i just wanted to say i feel for you and hope that you will find a friend from this site that is in your region. There does seem to be many in the U.K. When i was in my late 20`s i was in a similar situation as yourself, most of my friends had gotten married or moved away and i was a bit naive in thinking that things would stay the same. I had a rude awakening and got pretty discouraged as well. I think that sometimes my workmates are more interested in me that the bros. as well, but it is a snare that i avoid for i know that it probably isn`t as genuine as i may think and their lives seem to be quite superficial without much meaning. Please don`t think that Jah has forgotten you or disapproves or anything like that. It is just part and parcel of the difficult times that we live just as was prophesied it has absolutly nothing to do with what Jah thinks of you. Our deliverance is on the horizon. I know that that may not help in the here and now but it can be of consolation. In finding this site it has helped me with my lonliness a great deal and i hope it may help you as well. Take care |
| Name: | lb |
| Comments: | I have been reading the postings on this website for a few months now. As a 50+ year old woman I am ashamed to admit I had little tolerance for this unique problem before. After having read the struggles and lonliness that each of you are going through, I am in awe of your great love for Jehovah. Please hang in there - we all need each other so desperately in these last days. And I promise that if I ever encounter any of you personally in my life, I will welcome you with open arms. |
| Name: | JV |
| Comments: | Hello All,
I've been reading the posts at this site and I sincerely appreciate every single one. I admire the efforts of all you, Brothers and Sisters, and please do not give up. I have been a Witness for more that 25 years. I’m in my forties now. Due to this particular situation, attraction to my own gender, I know I haven’t grown enough in some areas of my life. I have experienced misery and lots of pain. But, I’m still here, alive. Alone in my own world even though among lots of brothers and friends. I can’t talk to them about my inclinations because some of them have already expressed their aversion against what for me is the normal thing. I don’t expect them to understand this issue. They face other issues hard to cope with. We might be dreaming of having something we can’t have. But many times when we get what we have been longing for, such thing is not as good as we thought it would be. Been loved and been able to love changes life completely. Please do NOT stop telling Jehovah every single thing. It doesn’t matter how terrible and shameful those things might be. He is our best friend and He knows exactly what’s going on in our lives. The hardest thing for me is to know that other ones are facing the same misery I do face. Best regards, JV |
| Name: | Darren |
| Comments: | Hi
I'm a gay witness in my late twenties in the u.k. I've been struggling since I was a teenager and it's getting more and more difficult. The biggest problem I find is making good genuine friends in the truth. I can just about manage without a boyfriend but life without friendship is just too much. I pray to Jehovah so many times in a day to help me find just one good close friend that I can share some association with but it never happens. Lately my relationship with Jehovah has suffered because i've become very depressed and I feel like i'm just such a bad person that he's taken his spirit away from me and thats why I can't make any friends. It seems that if you are a young single brother in the truth you really are alone and no one seems to notice you. I think i'm outgoing and I try to talk to everyone at the hall and i'm always warm and kind to people. I spend time having a proper conversation with people rather than just a passing 'hello' yet it still doesn't seem to win me any friends. Just lately i've felt like i'm just so detached from the congregation and it's almost become like a church to me. Whats worse is that I get on so well with people at work and I have friends there that would do anything for me...i just wish I could find that in the truth. After all the truth is all about love. I just get so tired of going to the cinema on my own and shopping on my own. I even go on holiday on my own, not to mention live alone. I have just become lonely to the point where my life doesn't seem worth living anymore and I contemplate ending it all most days. If I just had one close friend my whole life would be brightened up but my resquest never seems to be granted. I find the congregations have cliqes and I never seem to be part of one. My congregation is very friendly and i'm fond of people there but they all go out to the pictures and bowling etc and I never get invited.I don't limit myself to just young people either. In fact from being a small boy i've only ever had elderly ones as friends. I have a lot of respect for the older ones but it would be so nice to have some people around me age give or take 10 years to play sport with and go bowling etc. The way things are right now I can see myself drifting into a relationship. I've fallen in love a couple of times in the last year and i've walked away from it but i'm running out of strength...life is just too hard all alone. I have so much love and affection to give and living without ever having a hug or anyone to have a deep conversation with is turning me into a very empty person. If there are any young brothers that are in the u.k. and feel the same then please email me. It would be so nice to have somone to visit now and again and share some association with someone that understands our unique situation. Take care all Luv Darren |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear Debbieanna,
Welcome. It is very good to know that you have found encouragement from this site - that is its purpose. You are right to be wary: "Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps". Proverbs 14:15. It is fine to hear that you have found encouragement and support from mature Christians in your congregation. It seems that just as the issue of homosexual feelings has come very much more into the open in society at large in the last few years, so the issue is also becoming more open in the congregations, and responsible ones are coming to appreciate more fully and more carefully what has been published in the Watchtower Society's literature, and are applying this with sympathy to those whom they shepherd. The situation does seem to vary from place to place, however, depending to some extent on the local social and cultural climate. Respecting the questions you pose about being tactile and about spending time with the opposite and with the same sex: Body contact: To be considered here are 1) Effect on you and the recipients of your affectionate (and innocent) contact and: 2) Effect on onlookers. It would seem inappropriate to make judgements at a distance as to what is considered socially proper and acceptable in your area. It may be as well to act on suggestions made by local observers who can make informed comment on what is deemed suitable locally. Being with others: The 16th Century English poet John Donne wrote that "No man is an island, entire of himself". Surely we cannot survive in solitude. Those of us in the congregations who are attracted to our own sex, however, have all faced the tricky issue of working out for ourselves what is acceptable in the matter of being alone with others. Again, to be considered are 1) the possible effects on ourselves and 2)the possible effects on onlookers. The principles respecting the opposite sex are fairly clear - Christians understand the need to be careful not to give onlookers the impression of compromise of Christian principles - and know also that it is necessary to be careful of one's own emotions and those of another person. Research in Watchtower publications will uncover much helpful information and good guidelines in this area. The situation is much less defined in the case of associating with a member of one's own sex. It is surely impossible to go through life never being alone with a member of EITHER sex - such a situation would pose absurd problems, and in any case the Bible counsels against being over-isolated, at Proverbs 18:1. We surely need Christian friends, especially if we are not in a position to pursue the ultimate friendship represented by courtship and marriage. What then is appropriate respecting friends? The Society's literature does not spell this out - there is no set of 'rules' and we will not attempt to specify some here. Each Christian must exercise due caution respecting his or her own feelings, and those of others. It would seem inappropriate to say more that that here. Once again welcome to this site, Debbieanna. Please feel free to contribute further, and to ask any questions. |
| Name: | Debbieanna |
| Comments: | I can't begin to tell you how encouraging this site has been to me. I must admit that I was a little wary at first but the scriptures and experiences of others have really been an encouragment to endure. I have the problem of being attracted to both males and felales though. My elders have also been a great help to me . They have definitely shown a loving and supportive spirit sharing practical suggestions with me. But it's kind of odd: Should I not be alone with sisters now? Should I be careful not to work with the same sister too regularly out in service. I've been counseled about displays of affection like hugging brothers you know as a greeting so would that go for the sisters too? I'm so confused. To tell the truth I'm just naturally an affectionate person and it really is just out of brotherly love but I dont want to stumble or make anyone uncomfortable. Any suggestions? |
| Name: | Declan |
| Comments: | Jeff, I hope finding the site will help you to endure. You said you were nearly "finished off". It's never too late to allow Jehovah's Spirit to work upon us, it just takes a willing attitude and the faith he will carry us through. Trust me, it can be done, you just have to want it; Jehovah WILL bless that. 2Cor 4:7-11 |
| Name: | jeff |
| Comments: | hi everyone, this is a remarkable notebook. I wish i'd found a site like this before, i'm just about finished off. |
| Name: | niels |
| Comments: | hi brothers and sisters,
This is such wonderful website and guestbook. There are a lot of stories i can relate to. Thank you grz, Niels |
| Name: | Marta |
| Comments: | Hi brothers and sisters, I need your help. My brother has just confess us his homosexuality, and We do not know how to act.
Sorry about my english I am spanish, but I need all of your counsels. Please emeal me to: (can be reached through owner@gaywitness.f9.co.uk) Thanks in advance |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | It works..... |
| Name: | Ben |
| Comments: | Hey everyone - just seeing if this actually works before I pour out my heart and soul : ) |
| Name: | Declan |
| Comments: | Mike, I have found over the years that the bottom line is people will always do what they want to do. This guy who has left the Truth for a boyfriend knows what he's done. So many of us will obey Jehovah despite the cost and never have someone swoop in and give a personal intervention of empathy and validation. Don't feel you are his only hope, I am sure Jehovah has supplied him with plenty of life-boats which he has decided to let pass by. In the future he may turn around but for the present time the bullet has left the gun. |
| Name: | MICHAEL |
| Comments: | I was cleaning my garage yesterday, and a young brother was helping me. I think that the whole day just was not suppost to happen. I found out that my next dorr nieghbor has been stealing from me, and that they tried to sell my tools to the people across the street. That infuriated me. The young brother got to see me in such a state that not to many have really ever seen. Well to continue on, I finally calmed down, and then I recieved a call from an old friend that I have been working on helping him get back to the meetings. He is st8. He proceeds to tell me, that this saturday is was invited to a bar here in town, and he asked me if I knew anything about the bar. I said ya, that it is the local 50/50 bar, he asked me what that ment, and I told him that it is that local gay bar, but so many str8 people like to go their because the dancing is excellant, and that they can just have an over all good time and not have to stress over anything because anyone that goes to this bar, is pretty much secure in their sexuality. I asked him, WHY are you going to that bar? He proceeds to tell me that a very prominent families some that we both know has left the TRUTH, and he ran into him yesterday, and that he wants him, and his wife and another exwitness to go out to eat with him and his boyfriend on saturday.
When he tole me that, I WAS FLOORED!! This young man told this friend of mine that he left the TRUTH so that he could follow his heart. Now all that keeps going through my mind, is that he feels that he is alone, or that he must bethe only one that has feelings like this, and whatever else. All that I want to do is let him know that he is not alone, and help him get back to the TRUTH. I do not know if he would respond now because he has been gone for about 8 months from what I understand. The reason I wrote this is to ask, What would you do? ANYONE. I am not sure what I want to do yet, I thought about getting ahold of him, and telling him that he is not alone, and trying to find out the REAL reason why he left. Maybe then I couild be just a little bit on the convincing side to get him to come back. I dont know though. So give me some ideas, tell me what to do, or what not to do, or what you think of the whole situation. I didnt make this into a forum because I didnt want it to be one. If that is ok Phil. If you deside to make this a forum, title it Question, What would you do? Thanx Sincerely M |
| Name: | afaithful |
| Comments: | Hello j.b and Chess.
Wow guys, thank you so much for all your words of encouragement. I apologize for not replying to your messages sooner. I didn't even noticed when my message was posted. Maybe I was on the wrong guess book. Silly me. Anyways here is my email address (email deleted) feel free to write if you like. I really need to keep in touch with bros that understand what we go tru. Hey j.b. still feel like taking that road trip? let's talk about that off line. I've been meaning to talk face to face with other brothers too. Send me an email. Thanks again to all of you for your words of encouragement. PS. Phill, it's ok to publish my email address. Afaithful (NOTE: EMAIL ADDRESSES ARE NOT CURENTLY BEING SHOWN IN THE GUESTBOOK) |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Dear Nate,
I can identify with your feelings of being stuck, unable to progress in the truth. I am 24 and have been struggling since I was around 10, not just with the issue of same-sex attraction, but with general issues of self-worth and self-identification within the congregation. My heart therefore goes out to you. I am sorry about the tragic loss of our sister and your best friend. I'm sure Jehovah will resurrect her in the new earth. If it's any comfort, although you lost her, you have gained many more who want to help you bear the weight of your anxieties and who want to help you grow and maintain faith in Jehovah, who will make everything work out in the end. Please remember always that, even when no one is there for you to talk to, Jehovah invites even you to "throw your burden" on Him, and "He himself will sustain you." |
| Name: | Declan |
| Comments: | Nate, I am sure there are people here who would very much like to help you to meet the challenge of living a chaste life and to learn to value yourself as precious in Jehovah's eyes. Set up a private and safe e mail account so you may be written to. It is all going to work out just fine; one step at a time. Philia |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | FOR VARIOUS REASONS THE POST TO WHICH THIS IS AN ANSWER, HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM PUBLIC DISPLAY. THIS RESPONSE WILL BE REMOVED IN DUE COURSE, AS IT RELATES TO A PRIVATE ENQUIRY.
Dear Dr. Gordon, You didn't put an email address, so I can't write to you privately. If you would care to email me privately I should be happy to help in any way that I can. You may be assured of discretion. Since you have posed your question in a public Guestbook, may I make a brief public response? It is probably unfair for me to comment extensively on your patient's case, since I know little about it and am not medically qualified. Nevertheless, your comment seems to contain the implicit suggestion that if your patient were sexually active in a same-sex relationship, this might help to cure his clinical depression. Am I correct in inferring this to be your suggestion? If so, may I respectfully suggest the question of chicken and egg? Might it not be the case that your patient would be clinically depressed even if he were a married heterosexual, a celibate heterosexual, or a partnered homosexual? In short, that his clinical depression may have aetiology other than in his sexuality? And that it simply happens that, since he IS suffering from clinical depression, he focusses on his sexual feelings in ways that, were he not clinicaly depressed, he would not? Of those who contribute to this website, all are homosexual in orientation, and in the Forum part, all are Witnesses. Some (I suppose a proportion similar to that in the population at large) have clinical depression in addition, but the majority do not. (I am happily among the majority). On the matter of the increasing variety and complexity of blood-derived products, (synthetic recombinant erythropoetin etc etc!)and how Witnesses relate these to what they understand to be the Bible's prohibition on ingesting whole blood, I can best refer you to your nearest Hospital Liaison Committee of Jehovah's Witnesses. The UK Branch Office would be able to put you in touch with that Committee. I do understand, however, that you mentioned the matter of blood fractions in an illustrative way, to ask if the stance of the Witnesses on same-sex relationships is likely to change. I think not. I would be happy to discuss the Scriptural reasons for this privately with you if that is your wish. If it did change, tomorrow, how would you advise your patient? Is it your feeling that his clinical depression would vanish if he could have 'gay sex' without it being against his religion? It seems unlikely to me, but as I have said, I am not medically qualified. Out of interest, is it your impression that there is a lower rate of clinical depression among sexually active homosexual patients? It may be that if you give your patient the website address of this site, www.gaywitness.f9.co.uk the discussion and encouragement he will find in talking to others in a similar situation will help his depression to some degree, or make it easier to cope with. Do you think that is possible? The UK is unique in the number and quality of patient support charities we have. There seems little doubt that mutual support with a difficulty can lighten the 'load', and patient support groups are surely a manifestation of this. It was partly with this in view that the "Gaywitness" site was set up. I feel certain that if your patient's depression is not so severe that he simply cannot function rationally, talking to others of the same faith in the same situation will help him. Of course, if the case is so severe that the patient is unable to function normally to any acceptable degree, no doubt you will refer him to a consultant. May I commend you for your effort on behalf of your patient in 'going the extra mile' for him by seeking out this site. On a final note, I should mention that the publications of Jehovah's Witnesses make a clear distinction between sexual FEELINGS and sexual ACTIVITES. Thank you for getting in touch, and please do write to me privately at owner@gaywitness.f9.co.uk |
| Name: | Nate |
| Comments: | I just came across your site this morning.I find it very interesting ,but at the same time it saddens me.
I have tryed my hardest for 22 years to do what is right in Jehovah's eyes, & cant ever seem to progress or be good enough for anyone .I love my congragation & my family , but anytime I speak of having homosexual feelings or thoughts I am treated like it is something that will go away in time if I just try harder. I have talked to the elders about it but they said I have a bad heart because I spent time alone with a sister (who also was having the same issues) who was there for me in very dark times.And they do not seem to understand how hard this is for me to over come such tendencies . What makes this worse is that the sister that was there for me,I eventually moved to another state & that sister 2 years later commited suicide because of being gay .she was my best friend. I am trying to find some help from someone who will understand my situation.I want so bad to be a good person, & not feel like I am being judged by everyone.My own father does not even talk to me anymore.I just feel I am ready to give up the fight, & on life .....Im hopeing there will be some kind of help. Thank you for you time....... |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Becky, I think I have to say something, because your comment about being surprised to learn that there were no aversion techniques discused at the seminar shows that you are not nearly as knowledgeable about "reparative therapy" as I had supposed.
You mention your perception of cautious optimism on the part of those offering therapy for sale. Yes, they have to appear optimistic, or customers will not buy. Would you buy a fridge from a salesman who did not appear optimistic that it would work? The "cautious" bit is their get-out clause. When, $25,000 and two years down the line, the patient's sexual feelings are unchanged, the person who sold the therapy can fall back on the reminder that they were cautious about whether it would work. But he won't give you your money back. (The figure is derived thus: The shortest time Dr. Nicolosi has quoted for change of orientation is two years. He recommends two sessions, one individual and one group, per week. Having this for fifty weeks in each year, at $125 per session, gives the figure above.) You mention the phrase "their native heterosexuality". This is presumably a reference to the notion peddled by the 'reparative therapists' that no-one is 'born gay', but that everyone is born heterosexual and develops same sex attraction due to psychological factors as they grow up. I will not rehearse all the arguments and evidence here, but I must state that this view is based on very old and completely unsubstantiated ideas. All of the research results of the last decade, (and it is really only in this period that serious scientific research has been done and the studies meta-analysed)are pointing to a physical, pre-natal origin of homosexuality. There are various strands to this evidence, and they are convincing. Respecting experiences of change of orientation found on websites, I respectfully urge you to re-read them, paying careful attention to "close analysis of text". To begin with, you must discount the experiences of any person selling therapy himself or herself, including those who run a 'ministry' to change sexual orientation. Then, in the remaining experiences, look very carefully indeed at what is actually being described. Is it TRULY a change in sexual desire? In this whole "therapy" thing, The 'bottom line' is this: There is NO independently published clinical evidence for the safety and efficacy of any clinical/medical treatment to change sexual orientation, including the treatment called reparative therapy. If my daughter had Insulin-dependent Diabetes, before I would buy any new medical treatment for her based on a psychological theory, I would want to know about the published clinical evidence base of safety and efficacy of the treatment. If I could find none, I would think myself an irresponsible parent if I subjected my daughter to the treatment. Moreover, if, in reaserching, I looked on the websites of those selling the treament, and found prominently featured accounts of cures by miracles at prayer meetings in Christendom's churches (http://www.narth.com/docs/medinger2.html) I would feel extremely suspicious. Why would a website selling a scientific medical treatment want to feature experiences of cure by "A whole bunch of miracles" at a prayer meeting? Don't buy it, Becky. It's snake oil. It's the Phrenology of our age - lots of people may be persuaded to believe in it, but there isn't any real scientific evidence, and the closer you look, the more diaphonous it becomes. And you will harm your daughter, for she will not change in her feelings, and will in turn fel guitly about this. In the Forum attached to this website, the Thread on Reparative therapy is the longest one. I am certain that it would help you to join the Forum and to read carefully the thoughtfully consdered discussions therein. Would you do that to help your daughter? |
| Name: | airsmiles |
| Comments: | Hi Becky ,
Thank you for your explanation there. As you have been so frank I am sure you will appreciate my being so. In your original post you qualify many statements and yet not others..this quite naturally led me to assume that there may be an agenda behind this post. A brother who had tried the therapy told me that he gave it up because it did not work and secondly and most worryingly because it was damaging his spirituality as it centred his thoughts on himself and away from his faith...as you say the therapy is VERY intensive! Perhaps one thing that people who advocate this therapy and indeed this can apply to any other need to keep in mind that it is alright for them suggesting, advocating and implimenting on others a course of therapy...but since they are not the recipients or indeed are the ones with SSA which is a quite unique situation in the organization we are members of, then, I would see that it is far easier to look from the outside and say "Hey everyone this therapy is great"! Perhaps I could explain my earlier statement about your qualifying some statements and not others. For example you constantly prefixed "SSA" with the word "unwanted" you mentioned "unwanted urges" another was "native" hetrosexuality. So you were being quite precise in what you said. Therefore when it came to any assumptions about those who are gay and I use that word gay because it annoys the Narth therapists, perhaps it may have been more precise to say things such as "Just doing regular therapy often was very helpful in treating depression...... for those who suffered from it" Your assumption is that attraction to the same sex is "unwanted" well to a person who has had these feelings since childhood they may indeed not be unwanted but feel like the most natural thing in the world. This may be the most difficult part to deal with. Have you considered that aspect..?For those that have a personal revulsion for these feelings then Narth is very attractive. In addition your assumption is that everyone is on these sites for support, have you considered that maybe there are witnesses on these sites who are looking for support and some that are in a position where they do not need support but are here to give it?? It is really of no consequence that there is not a support mechanism in the congregations, indeed many have experienced the exact opposite. Gay witnesses are on the whole very strong people who are able to get through life in this system like everyone else. So really your advice though I feel was well meaning..... "While therapy is expensive, intensive, emotionally draining work, therapists will often work at reduced rates. Some do phone therapy and there are support groups. Do research. Ask questions. Get on the phone and talk to different people about this. Read books. Pray. Be like David and work in harmony with your prayers to get the help you need" could indeed appear to show an assumption about the spiritual, menatal and emotional condition of gay witnesses as a whole. Although parents have a right to decide what medial treatment is given to their children, Narths therapies are not a medical treatment and are subject to much controversy.... although I am not saying that this is the case, I couild not imagine what it would be like to be a child and have a parent subject me to treatments and therapies that as you say are very demanding and intensive......and I did not want to do them!! |
| Name: | Becky |
| Comments: | Dear Airsmiles,
I am truly sorry to have annoyed you. My post was intended only for those who need encouragement in their struggle. I meant to respond to those who have written of their loneliness and isolation and their tremendous relief at finding this site for support. This need for support is nothing to be ashamed of nor is it an indication of character weakness anymore than depression is.(g01 9/8 p. 11 How You Can Help) I in no way meant that you or anyone else was being lackadaisical in the truth or in our common struggle to remain faithful no matter what the temptation. However, I realized that I needed more help than was available in a few Watchtower articles and I found that reading books from NARTH and deepening my understanding of Same Sex Attraction (SSA) has made all the difference in my ability to cope with and help my daughter. You have stated that you have never come across a brother who has said that NARTH’s methods do work. First, I would not assume that none have ever benefited. When I have read peoplecanchange website I have found many compelling stories of change that emphasize personal healing through therapy and support groups. Most these stories indicate that years of work are involved. For many reasons our brothers and sisters are less likely to seek therapy for any concern when compared to other groups, so I would expect fewer experiences of therapy from Jehovah’s Witnesses. I have asked some people I met at the conference to ask ex-gays to respond to Phil’s “Therapy for Change?” challenge. Perhaps you and Phil can initiate correspondence with responders, although they may be non-Witnesses, and get your concerns addressed. You have also stated that “the whole thing smacks of a religious experience” similar to Alcoholics Anonymous”. The Society has often quoted AA resources and in recent scientific literature AA is shown to be effective (I can provide references). NARTH does not advocate any religious approach and emphasizes the standard ethic that a therapist’s religion should never be imposed on a client. Your statement that the majority of witnesses who have SSA do not “have issues with the whole thing” is your personal opinion and while I also hope its true, there is really no evidence to support or disprove this claim other than your anecdotal account. Those who have posted on the guest book are doing so for a reason. They are looking for support and community. This is natural and nothing to be ashamed of. Even if only one person has an issue with their SSA struggle, is not one little sheep of great value to our Loving Shepherd? In no way was I implying that those with SSA are any less compassionate, warm, loving generous, empathetic or spiritual minded than those without SSA. My allusion to David in terms of getting help has to do with David being a man of action who carefully questioned others before stepping forward to meet Goliath’s challenge. The concept of “help” is left open to the reader’s interpretation in the context of their own needs as defined by themselves. If you have no needs in this area, then you need not concern yourself. My motivation to post is to provide support for those who struggle with SSA in the course of their service to Jehovah. I am glad this site is available for this purpose. |
| Name: | d.m. |
| Comments: | i was recently referred to this site from another brother. i am currently serving happily as a fulltime pioneer. it has been very encouraging speaking with spiritually minded brothers who share the same struggle as me. i feel less alone and more determined to continue to reach out in Jehovah's organization. |
| Name: | airsmiles |
| Comments: | Hi Becky,
I read the post with interest. I am sure that you realise that the subject of Narth's methods have been scrutinised in great detail by many of the gay brothers. In many of the posts the brothers indicate a "procede with caution" attitude. Some have tried and said that it does not work. I have never come across a sane brother that said that it worked. I am not being twisted and cynical here. I have spoken to several who have tried it.My view is that the whole thing smacks of a religious experience much the same as they use in Alcoholics Anonymous. Anyway that aside I wanted to mention that I strongly object to this statement you made: "Read books. Pray. Be like David and work in harmony with your prayers to get the help you need." This statement makes me feel that you think we need help.....what kind of help are you refering to here? Psychiatric perhaps, A bible study? Yes by my tone you can guess I did not like that statement. Are you saying that we should pray for a cure?? I don't think that we have the right to expect special treatment in this system. Are you saying that we should pray to god for help then get into NARTH? Hmmmmm, does not feel right..... The statement also might indicate that if a person does not " Read books. Pray. Be like David and work in harmony with your prayers to get the help you need." then this indicates that they do not want "the help that they need" Who is saying that a gay witness actually needs help any more that any other witness does?? Maybe I am being unkind here in my annoyance so it might be helpful to point out to you that the majority of gay witnesses are sane, balanced, spiritually minded people who have learned to live with this issue much the same as many other witnesses have to live with issues that they can do nothing about in this system. In fact I would go so far as to say that of the gay witnesses I know, the majority are among the most compassionate, warm, loving, generous, empathetic, spiritually minded persons I have ever met. They are strong in character and will many determined to carry on and serve Jehovah faithfully. In effect like any other witness, without and "special help". No we do not have the elders round every week pouring our hearts out to them about what sad miserable lives we have, because we don't. We have great lives, happy, busy ones. Sure some have issues with the whole thing but not the majority. My goodness I wish I had time to sit and read books on the subject. As I have said in posts before, for me being gay is at the bottom of my list of daily concerns!!!!! |
| Name: | Becky |
| Comments: | I wanted to share some encouraging news. My husband and I attended the 2005 NARTH conference in Marina del Rey last weekend. We wanted to see for ourselves the kind of people who are offering support to those who suffer from unwanted same sex attractions (SSA). What we found were a small group of deeply committed professionals who have risked their careers to meet the needs of people with unwanted SSA.
These therapists are cautiously optimistic about bringing relief from unwanted feelings of attraction. They shared ideas and modalities that they have found to be effective in helping their clients. I also met young men and women who believed they had been helped by having a therapist who was committed to them, non-judgmental and yet at the same time one who would not affirm a gay or lesbian identity. Surprisingly, no one advocated anything resembling "aversion" techniques. The talks were often geared towards the importance of not shaming the client, especially concerning sexual feelings and religious beliefs. Just doing regular therapy often was very helpful in treating depression and reducing unwanted urges. There was also a tremendous amount of information for the therapists who treat women clients. I spent all day Friday listening to a women's program. There was also a lot of emphasis on building a supportive community which is why I am posting to this site. At this conference and on the web pages of N.A.R.T.H, I have found support and guidance for my role as the mother of a girl raised in the Truth yet who is struggling with SSA and subsequent depression. This guidance is based on what has worked for others in helping their children to develop their native heterosexuality. I met the therapist we use through a referral from NARTH. While therapy is expensive, intensive, emotionally draining work, therapists will often work at reduced rates. Some do phone therapy and there are support groups. Do research. Ask questions. Get on the phone and talk to different people about this. Read books. Pray. Be like David and work in harmony with your prayers to get the help you need. No, we don't have a formal support group for unwanted SSA as do many other religions and we don't have a whole lot of elders who even understand this, but there are resources out there starting with Phil's helpful and encouraging website. Thank you Phil for moderating this very needed safe place for the friends who are trying to stay faithful to Jehovah. Sincerely, Becky |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Hello Vin,
It's good to hear that you've had encouragement and support in your congregation. You shouldn't need to feel 'alone' with this difficulty, in this day and age. Don't worry about not leaving contact details - email addresses are not currently being shown in the Guestbook anyway. If there's any way in which you feel you might like additional help or communication, feel free to write privately to the email address above, and be assured of discretion. Best regards, Phil |
| Name: | Vin |
| Comments: | Hi - not sure I'm comfortable with leaving my contact details yet. Just want to say this site is a life saver. I have been struggling for as long as I can remember and "sailing pretty close the wind" in my behaviour. On thursday I finally confided about the way I feel to an elder who has been fantastic. There are still things I need to say about my conduct though I think he's got a pretty good idea, I am a ministerial servant, and I don't want to be a hypocrite. It's just a relief to tell someone and not feel alone. Thanks.
V |
| Name: | Gene |
| Comments: | Dear Phil,
I received both of your emails. Thank you. The fact that I talked to the circuit overseer and one of our elders about being gay, combined with the discovery of your website, has given me a revived hope and motivation to continue faithful. I am looking forward to getting acquainted with brothers who share the same thorn of affliction. Support groups do work, and I am glad my 35 years of lonliness can come to an end. I will post this message to the guestbook, and do promise to abide by the rules governing the discussion forum. Warmest regards, Gene |
| Name: | B |
| Comments: | Well I am not one for a lot of typing, but its so enouraging to know that there are others out there like me. You are all in my prayers. |
| Name: | JR |
| Comments: | First of all I want to say how proud I am of all of you who are struggling to do what is right, even though it can be agonizingly difficult at times. Especially you younger ones like Aaron, who are experiencing these feelings for the first time and are just learning how to cope. I've been dealing with these feelings for a long time, since I was a young child. It makes me sad to think that others are going through the same thing. I've been lonely for such a long time, but Jehovah has always comforted me and so far hasn't let me be tempted beyond what is normal. I feel relieved that I can finally talk to ones that are going through the same thing. It is a tremendous source of encouragement.
As far as cause goes...I don't know if this is something that I was born with, or if it was acquired, it might be some of both, but I am determined to continue fighting. Keeping busy in the ministry has been helpful for me. I'm serving in a foreign land now and have been blessed to help several to the point of baptism. Knowing that there are so many people out there that really need help and are facing worse situations helps me to not get overwhelmed with my problems. Some Bible students here come to the hall and haven't eaten for several days, or haven't had heat in their shelters for up to a week at a time. Several were living on the streets. What a privilege it is to serve in Jehovah's organization, and to help these ones to have a real future. I don't have all the answers, in fact I have questions that I hope to be able to ask now that I've found this group, but I am so proud of you all for taking responsibility for your actions and not giving up on your dedication. I love you and I know Jehovah does too. Don't give up. There are so many people that need you, and that you can help and make a difference in their lives. We can get through this together. |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | I would like to relate an encouraging experience I had this past week. I have not told anyone close to home--friends, family, not even the elders--up until this point of my sexual condition; however, a friend I met through this site made me realize that I should talk to the elders, after I had confessed to him a serious error I made last week. So a few days later, after serious and numerous prayers, I told an elder who has been taking a personal interest in me that I needed to talk to him. He invited me over to his house to have dinner with his family. After we ate, the two of us went outside to talk, and I slowly revealed to him what I have been struggling with for all my teen-age life. He was completely sympathetic and understanding. In fact, he said he knew a brother who was struggling with homosexuality, that they had been at Bethel together. This brother, he said, got married, but sadly, he ended up pursuing an active homosexual life. This elder understood that this condition is one to cope with--not to change in this system of things. He actually commented on the Society's lack of material on the subject for Christians growing up with this conflict. He said, "The reason, I think, why the Society hasn't really given much on this subject (homosexual orientation among Christians) is that. . .well, I don't know why, to tell you the truth. Maybe it's just like how the Society used to shy away from discussing depression, but once they realized it's a real thing that affects people in the organization. . .I don't know if it's being kept silent on purpose, or if the problem isn't seen to a large enough extent, or what." He even went on to wonder aloud how many of Jehovah's people suffer with this--at that point, I really felt like telling him about this site, and eventually, I think, I probably should, but for now, I didn't want to lay on too much all at once. Besides, the focus right now is me--not all you brothers and sisters around the world. I must thank Jehovah, though, for giving me so much loving support--and I thank you all, also. I don't know what I would do without you--seriously. |
| Name: | Declan |
| Comments: | Many people read the guestbook and the secure threads as well. I rarely have anything to say but I want you to know that you continue to be in my prayers. |
| Name: | Paris Alex |
| Comments: | The language barrier is so much less than the prejudice barrier, which we all have experienced, here is the evidence, with the three previous messages all written in different languages and however so matching one another.
Merci JJ, pour ton courage et ta sincérité, dans un pays et une culture où le rejet est total et désarmant Muchas gracias, Claudio por tratar dar animo a otros que siguen sufriendo sin saber que no son solos We do not need high numbers to be comforted, knowing we have a few "corresponding ones", who understand and share, already is a strong encouragement to endure and keep up the fight. |
| Name: | Johnathan |
| Comments: | Aaron, my friend: you rock!
I'm just so proud of you for the steps you're taking and the determination you display in your resolve. Your honest accounts are really touching and heartwarming. Yeah, it ain't over yet, but you should be rightly proud of the steps you've taken to get back on track. I've always liked the analogy of travelling on a highway... Sometimes we take a wrong exit on the road of life, and the only way to get back is to turn the car around 180 degrees and head back to where we got offtrack, and only then can we start to move forward. The process sometimes feels like we're moving backwards but it's the only way to get back to the road of life. You'll go through some spots that may feel like "you're not moving forward" but just remember it's part of that process of getting back on track. You strike me as courageous. That is an excellent quality. Keep up the good work, and keep focused on the road ahead. And know that the rest of us faithful fags are here to ENcourage you when you find yourself a bit down. You are no longer alone in your struggle. :) |
| Name: | Claudio |
| Comments: | Estimados
He estado alejado de las paginas web de ayuda en este último tiempo. Creo que aún sorprendido de que los hermanos de habla hispana no tengan posibilidad de tener comunicación como la vuestra. La barrera del idioma, muchas veces representa una frustración para mi. Con todo tengo comunicación con algunos y creo que quizás pueda ser suficiente para mi. Solo lamento en cuanto hablante hispano debe sentirse solo y abrumado por no poder compartir su sentir o pensar que quizás es el unico testigo con este problema como lo pensamos hace un tiempo atrás nosotros mismos. Cuanto quisiera que todos tuvieran acceso a paginas en internet como esta. Cuando cree el grupo "TJ. Valientes" pensé que podría ser aquel punto de encuentro. Finalmente no fue así, quizás por su estructura o por otro motivo. Aquel grupo pronto llegará a su fin, debido a haber cumplido con la propuesta. En forma inconclusa lamentablemente. El conocer a hermanos personalmente y no solo on-line es algo impactante y una ayuda inestimable. Pienso que mi vida sería distinta sin ellos. Saludos El chileno, luchando por hacer lo que es correcto. |
| Name: | Jean-Jaques Rousseau |
| Comments: | Bonjour tout le monde ! Et en particulier à Phil qui a créé ce site...
Je ne sais comment exprimer aujourd'hui ma reconnaissance à la lecture des pages de ce site. Depuis tant d'années, tant de mois je me sens seul, isolé, comme maudit à cause de ma mauvaise orientation sexuelle... J'ai 23 ans, je suis Français, né dans la vérité, baptisé depuis 9 ans et toujours fidèle à Jéhovah malgré le déchirement de me sentir différent des autres. Jusqu'à la rencontre avec ce site je n'imaginais pas que d'autres frères et soeurs puissent connaître les mêmes difficultés que moi. Je crois que ce qu'il y a de plus dur avec l'homosexualité, c'est qu'elle fait partie de moi, de ma personnalité, depuis toujours, et en même temps cette partie est en désaccord avec l'esprit de Dieu auquel je suis attaché. J'ai donc grandit avec cette contradiction permanente entre mes désirs coupables et ma foi en Dieu... Même si sûrement toutes les situations sont différentes, ça fait plaisir de savoir que d’autres mènent silencieusement à mes côtés le même combat pour la foi. Personne dans ma famille n’est au courant de mes véritables sentiments, je crois qu’ils ne le supporteraient pas alors j’ai appris à vivre avec le silence… Merci Phil pour ce site, il nous permet pour une fois (malgré les barrières de la langue) d’exister avec notre vrai visage sans honte. JJ Translation: Hi everybody! and in particular Phil who has created this site... I don’t know how to express today my gratitude for this site. For so much years, so much month I feel alone, isolated, like a cursed man because of my wrong sexual orientation... I’m 23 years old, I’m French, I was born in the truth, baptized for 9 years and always faithful to Jehovah in spite of the feeling torn apart because of feeling different from the others. Until finding this site, I never imagined that other brothers and sisters could have the same problem as me. I believe that the most problem with homosexuality, is that, it’s a part of me, of my personality, since my early chidhood, and at the same time this part is opposite with the spirit of God to which I am attached. So I grown with this permanent contradiction between my guilty desires and my faith to God... Even if probably all the situations are different, I’m happy to know that other people are fighting silently, as me, the same fight for the faith. Nobody in my family know my true feelings, I believe that they couldn’t bear it, so I learned to live with the silence... Thank you Phil for this site, it enables us, for once (dispite the language differences), to exist with our true faces without any shame. JJ Sorry for all the mistakes you will find... |
| Name: | bri |
| Comments: | Aaron: Welcome HOME!!
I`m so happy that you were courageous enough to take charge and do what you had written. Often times we read of how some in that situation want to change things and come back but they turn out to be just words, which i hope with time will come true. You know what would be so great! That the Society produce such experiences as yours in an Awake or Watchtower article from time to time. It truly touches the heart to read such experiences and would maybe help others to come back as well. And for those of us thinking of going astray, well it would help to disuade us all as well as encourage us to stay faithful. I`m sure you are making a lot of people very happy, especially in the heavenly realm. Best of wishes. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Comments: | Je veux dire bonjour et
bienvenue aux lecteurs Francophones. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Michael, it has already been emailed to you. |
| Name: | nebby |
| Comments: | Hey Aaron,
great to see that you made the first steps, and I guess you made a very wise choise in moving to your grands place. You know, it's true, you will never be going back to the home you left; but the new home you are building might be a lot better that the last one. This time you are biulding one with a lot more expierience than the last time, and so you might know wich help and advice you might listen to, so this one is a lot more comfortable, so you think twice before leaving. :-) Hope to hear you singing soon |
| Name: | MICHAEL |
| Comments: | Do I get it?
|
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | No. |
| Name: | MICHAEL |
| Comments: | Does everyone that had the password get the new one? |
| Name: | Aaron |
| Comments: | This is in response to all the wonderful consideration and encouraging words that many of you gave to me. "Wow!" thats all I have to say. I just now read the comments that others wrote in response to my posting. I can not believe it had such an impact.
I am doing better now. I left my homosexual lifestyle. I left my "boyfriend" (oh how I detest that word) I did not go back home to my family. Instead I went to live with my other side of the family, my grandma, grandpa, Dad, and Aunt. My grandma is a Witness. I have my own trailor- :) what can I say I live in Arkansas. I am going back to highschool. Going to finsih that last year. I have a part time job. and YES I am going to all the meetings. I am now living more then 250 miles away from my original home. I am having to adjust to the geographic and social changes. Moving from a city with the population of 100,000 to a town of maybe 7,000 is a big change. I felt like I needed to get away from my former ways and former assoicates. The congregation welcomed me back with warm loving arms- although right at this time I am going through the nessecary disiplinary actions. MY new congregation down here in this new town is loving, I have known them for years, but still not the same as home. Yet I dont feel sad because no matter were I am in the world, if I am at a KIngdom Hall, I am in Jehovah's House. When I attend meetings I just sit and cry. I remember how happy I was. All the wonderful times I had with the brothers and sisters. I hope that someday I can regain that level I once had. Singing is the hardest thing for me. Before, oh before, singing was the most wonderful part of the meeting to me and my friends. We truly heeded the exhortation in Psalms- "Make a joyful noise to Jehovah". I loved to sing to Jehovah. I sang to HIM at the Hall, at home, in the car out in service, and at get togethers. Singing was a major part of my worship of Jehovah. I loved it. I felt that when I sang to Jehovah, that I was relaeasing my heart to him. SInce my fall into sin and homosexuality- I cant bring myself to sing anymore. It is as if my heart is broken. IN the Hall I try to sing, but I just mumble the words now. Then I turn and cry. I remember one speacial night I had with my friends in the congregation. We were all teenagers. We were all about 16. I was at my friends home. They lived out in the country, but they wild neighbors. They were in to alcohol, drugs, smoking, and hard rock music. Well we were inside just laying around (it was after dark) when we heard them just blasting there music next door. The neighbors were having a party. So we decided to go outside and sing. We all went outside. It was Me, Josh, Sam, Chasity, Jesse, and Ashley. We went outside and we all started to sing as loud as we could: "Were Jehovah's Witnesses, we sing out in fearlessness, ours is the God of true prophecy, what he fortells comes to be". We just sang and sang. Finally the neighbors turned the music down and listened to us teenagers sing. Then to my shock some of them came over and started asking questions about what we as Jehovah's Witnesses believed. We placed Bibles and Require brochures with them. That was a memorable night. Now I just can't sing. I hope one day I can walk into the Kingdom Hall and sing my heart out to my God once again. I know that day is coming- the more I recover. I feel so hollow and broken right now. I long to go home, but I realize that home isn't a place. Instead to me home was a period in time. When I was innocent. When me and my friends served Jehovah together in innonence and in love. Home was the feeling I felt when I walked in through those two big doors at our Kingdom Hall and saw the smiling faces and open arms. Home was when we went out in service together. "HOME is were the heart is" or so they say. If so my heart was at the congregation, and with my friends. HOME was going to the book study and studying such books as "Daniels Prophecy" and Revelation, and Isaiah books, then going out for ice cream after ward and discussing prophecy.- I will remind you that we were and still are teenagers. I am 18. Most of my close friends were about 17. As much as I loved that HOME- I realize that because of my stupidity I will never be able to go HOME again. I lost that. I sold out for a few moments of sexual gratification. Never again will I be able to go back "home"- I mean I can rise from my ashes and start over and build a new "HOME" but I will never be able to go home to what I had. I mean I know that the congregation loves me. I mean they called me non stop and told me to come back. That no matter what I had done that Jehovah still loved me and so did they. My best friend- Bradley, he had moved off . When I heard about what I did- he called me up in tears and recounted all the wonderful times we had together and the great experiences and how I had kept him going when he felt like giving up and going back to the world- and he cried and cried and cried. I felt that Jehovah God the Almighty Lord spoke through Bradley's mouth that night on the telephone. I mean it might sound silly and maybe it is, but I felt like Jehovah had a purpose in Brad calling me that night- because it showed me how much I truly I am loved. Of course Bradley wanted to know why I had left, because he still did not know about my homosexualitiy. When I told him he was set aback, but then he said "brother I love you no matter what you have done,I love you and I always will. Just get out of that situation, and come back home to Jehovah." That started me thinking. The rest is history. I left and I aint going back. The road as been hard to forsake that way of life that I lived for a year. I couldn't believe that in a small town size 7,000 there are still gays in this city. Its a fight, bgut its a fight I plan on fighting til the end. It will not be easy, but I will Trust in Jehovah. He will give me the power beyond what is normal to fight the desires of the flesh. The Bible says that God's spirit can up-root the "deeply entrenched things". Homosexulity falls under that catagoery in my case- and I know that Jehovah can help me up-root it. This website has truly been wonderful for me. I am very thankful that it was set up. Well brothers I must retire to bed now. I hope to hear from you again. Thank you for your kindness and consideration. May Jehovah bless you. Your teenage Brother, with a thorn in the flesh, Aaron |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | J.B the Password has been changed. I emailed you, but perhaps I used an old address or something. I will email again. |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Phil,
Did you change the password for the forum, or is it just every computer I've been on lately? Could you please send me the new one? Thanks. |
| Name: | airsmiles |
| Comments: | I sort of agree that if your first contact with the gay witnesses was through an internet site, that going through the postings can be real hard work. It could appear that we all feel so sorry for ourselves and have such miserable lives..... well that's not really true, yes sure some brothers literally wallow in self pity as do many of the "straight" brothers and sisters.
On the whole though the majority of the gay witnesses are strong people, strong in character and personality, perhaps this has been shaped by the journey therough life that they have had....with any hardships involved in theis journey has come a depth of compassion, empathy and understanding of others problems that is far greater that many "straight" people i know. The majority of us do realise that it does not matter what other people think of us even when they are going of on one of their "Oh it's a sign of the times the number of homosexuals there are" rants! It does not even matter where this comes from, we are well practised at letting this slide right over our heads into the dark oblivion of thoughtless ill researched words where it belongs. Well anyway, I have met a few of the gay brothers, and by far the majority are well adjusted in every way. Please don't paint us all with the same brush..... |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | j.b., as explained several times in earlier mentions in this Guestbook, contributors' email addreses are not currently being shown in the Guestbook.
Aaron, as five people have now taken time to respond to your post, I hope that you feel a little encouraged. It would be very kind if you could let us know how you are getting on. |
| Name: | Becky |
| Comments: | Dear Pamela,
I understand your concern with the general mood of the guest book. Some of my dear brothers and sisters are suffering from depression and shame over feelings they never chose to have. Because the nature of this site is to provide much needed emotional and spiritual support for these dear ones, it may appear that this is representative of all who experience same sex attraction (SSA). However, we just don’t know. There may be many others whose struggle is not as tortuous, but our religion doesn’t keep track of any such statistics. We just don’t know, although stories of people leaving a homosexual lifestyle to become Witnesses are few and far between. This of itself concerns me deeply, but I can’t assume it isn’t happening. I have often wondered why there aren’t more experiences in the Watchtower and have worried about the lack of special training to give emotional support to such ones who are trying to make such a radical change in their core identity. I myself have a beautiful, loving teenage daughter whom I recently discovered experiences SSA. If you are a truth seeker, you know there is nothing to be gained by lying to oneself or by ignoring and/ or glossing over something you feel in your gut is wrong. I have felt before my daughter came out that there was some deficit in the help SSA sufferers were getting. What has helped me to press forward with my conviction that Jehovah’s Witnesses have the Truth is the following account of an interchange between Jesus and his audience. (John 6:52-57) 52 Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. (John 6:66-69) 66 Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: “YOU do not want to go also, do YOU?” 68 Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; 69 and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” Apparently, many of Jesus listeners were put off by his statements about eating his flesh and drinking his blood and they gave up following him. Peter and others probably didn’t understand what Jesus was talking about, but they gave him the benefit of the doubt because of everything else that pointed to him being God’s Son. Here’s why I give this religion the benefit of the doubt. Jehovah’s people are the only ones who resisted Hitler, we continue to conquer racism within our ranks (it is a process because we are not perfect and we’re all at different places in our maturation as Christians), and no modern day Witness has ever murdered anyone in a war. We follow the Bible, we all preach the good news on a worldwide scale. No one else does that. We are progressive. The brothers now have special training to deal with molestation victims in a kind, compassionate way, and this training tracked Western society’s development of an enlightened attitude of no longer blaming the victims. Please don’t abandon your study with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Usually, our sisters and brothers have tremendous patience and empathy for new ones because they realize that you are just learning about God. It may be, though, that some of them are perplexed about SSA experienced by those raised in the truth and it may be they are perplexed because they have never developed insight into the rather mysterious nature of sexual attraction and mistakenly assume it just requires willpower and prayer to change one’s feelings. Be like Peter. Hang in there. I promise you, Jehovah won’t let you down. |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Dear Aaron,
I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. This might seem weird since I haven't physically met you or seen you or heard you: I love you--like a brother, I mean--isn't that what we're supposed to feel for our brothers, no matter where they are in the world? I want you to know that you're not alone; I know my saying so isn't going to convince you of that, but when I read your painful words, thrown out across infinite cyberspace, not knowing whose ears they might reach, I was deeply affected. I feel for you so much, mainly because I can identify with your pain and depression, and ceaseless temptation and questions about life, and yearning so much just to be able to please Jehovah, and not knowing how with this condition, and just wanting a way out. It's an entirely consuming and de-energizing and a lonely way to live. Even though I have never relinquished my virginity, I have come close, and I doubt my ability of resistance all the time. I admire your courage to turn around, using every ounce of being you have left, and I admire your profound spiritual strength and desire to please Jehovah. I wish I was strong enough to assure you that Jehovah is overjoyed that you still are trying to serve Him, in spite of Satan's ceaseless assaults. It will all be over soon. I wish we could talk, because I need the encouragement too, and I really feel for you. I know it's scary to put any trace that might lead to your identity out over the Internet--you might want to create an email address just for this--that's what I did. Please email me if you read this message and want a real friend to talk to. I'm a 24-year-old white bro from the U.S. |
| Name: | Andrew (aka Andrew21) |
| Comments: | Dear Aaron,
I must thank you for your most sincere, honest and, at the same time, sobering posting. To some limited degree I can imagine what it must feel like to be in your position now due to some personal experience. You are a very strong person. And you're not alone! Please, be assured that you'll find lots of support on this website whenever you might be in need of such. What else can I say? One of the scriptures I like to think about is Psalms 40:1, 2: "I earnestly hoped in Jehovah, And so he inclined [his ear] to me and heard my cry for help. He also proceeded to bring me up out of a roaring pit, Out of the mire of [the] sediment. Then he raised up my feet upon a crag; He firmly established my steps." Everything's going to be alrigh now - that's something I often wish I was told. Your brother in Russia, Andrew |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear Pamela,
Thank you for taking the time to read some of the Guestbook and to post. I'm so sorry to learn that you found it discouraging. Please remember that the Guestbook represents contributions from a variety of persons, some of whom are not Jehovah's Witnesses. It may be that if you take time to look at all 4 of the Guestbooks you might get a broader view. And, crucially, the Website itself - I would personally be interested in your opinion of that, for it's certainly intended to be encouraging, not discouraging! As for "So what I'm seeing here is a bunch of regular, spiritual, well-meaning and TORMENTED people who want to serve God but feel they are sinful, blemished, unaccepted, bad, rejected etc just because of the way they are." well, I'm really surprised you feel it comes across in that way. I can assure you that I personally don't feel all of that at all! The Bible, which Christ was instrumental in inspiring into the humans who wrote it down, leaves us in no doubt that the only permitted forum for a sexual relationship is within marriage of a man and a woman. Desire for one's own rather than the opposite sex, is therefore a 'thorn in the flesh' that can feel troublesome at times, but it's far from the worst challenge a person mioght have to deal with in life! And it is certainly possible to have a rich, full and happy life as a single person, with lots of good friends and happy association. One can have a rich and satisfying life with lots of friends and no sex, but not the other way round! With regard to the idea of being part of an 'organisation', the most important and fundamental thing is to learn who the Creator is and to get to know Him and serve Him. Christian service is to God, not to humans, and Christians are obedient followers of Christ, not men. If you are willing to take a little more time to look at the site, anad read more of the Guestbook postings, not just the most recent ones, I think and hope you may build a broader picture, and I would be interested to hear your views. The Literature page www.gaywitness.f9.co.uk/literature.html will give you an idea of some of the things the Bible publications of Jehovah's Witnesses have to say on the topic of homosexuality. Finally, may I please encourage you to persist in your Bible studies with Jehovah's witnesses, and to take time for personal study and meditation about what you are learning. Best wishes. |
| Name: | Pamela |
| Comments: | I just googled on "Jehovah's Witnesses lesbian" and got a bunch of links - looked around and decided to read this guestbook. I am amazed and sad. I have been getting weekly lessons from some Jehovah's Witnesses and have been very interested in what they say. I was thinking I might want to become a Witness because the description of a restored paradise sounds like a wonderful vision to hang onto in this strange world of ours. I knew homosexuality was condemned but I didn't know the extent of it until I read this page. It almost sounds like hatred, and certainly prejudice - which is always based on ignorance. I don't hear any signs that the Witnesses want to correct their ignorance either. So what I'm seeing here is a bunch of regular, spiritual, well-meaning and TORMENTED people who want to serve God but feel they are sinful, blemished, unaccepted, bad, rejected etc just because of the way they are. Regardless of what causes homosexuality, that's the way you ARE and you can't talk yourself out of it. So to be rejected on the basis of who you are seems about as unchristian as could be. I have to decided that the Jehovah's Witnesses organization is never going to work out for me. They may be telling the truth about the future, but as an organization, I reject THEM for their intolerance. Please, please, please, all of you who "fight your nature," please accept yourself as God accepts you. You are GOOD. You have done nothing wrong. I wish all of you happiness. And yes, I am one of you.
Pamela |
| Name: | Paris Alex |
| Comments: | Aaron,
thank you for your honesty and message of encouragement to others who might quit. I'm sure there are alot of former witnesses who suffer from alienation from the congregation even though it was their choice. I believe in our condition we are not offered a real choice, it's unhapiness within or unhappiness outside. But it's cold and hard outside, whereas it's warm and comforting inside. I'm glad you came to the same conclusion and are now determined to make your way back. It is difficult but necessary, do it now whatever the cost. There will be a good return on investment, and we will encourage each other in this fight. |
| Name: | bri |
| Comments: | Aaron
I must say thank you for that powerful and moving comment. It truly disuades those of us who sometimes think that if only we had someone to love us things would be better. I think most of us do go through such periods at one time or another. Your christian qualities still shine through with flying colours. Your honesty, humility, and hunger are still there. I hope and pray that you will take the necessary steps to come back to Jehovah. One of my favorite scriptures is in Isaiah 41:13 " For I, Jehovah your God am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you 'Do not be afraid I myself will help you.' He is always there with his hand extended for us to take hold of no matter what our situation. May he bless your efforts to take him by the hand again. You have a lot of people here cheering for you too. You can do it. Take care. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnessess.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear Aaron
Thank you for your frank and moving post. It's well-expressed, and you appear to have distinct literary gifts. It is very good to know that you have decided to return to the Christian Congregation. Of course that is the right decision, and we are sure that you will recieve a warm welcome. You are certainly not the first to have been in the position you describe. With respect to depression, it might be good to consider whether it might be due NEITHER to the pressures of Christianity NOR to the pressures of the world, but to some undiagnosed clinical factor. Just a thought. In connection with your observations on happiness, it's helpful to review the comments in The Watchtower 1 October 1994 (quoted on the Literature page of this site): "19 However, is it possible to be happy today, living as we do in the last days of this crime-filled, violent, immoral world under Satan, where sickness and death confront us? Of course, we cannot now expect the degree of happiness that will exist in God’s new world, such as his Word foretells: “Here I am creating new heavens and a new earth; and the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart. But exult, you people, and be joyful forever in what I am creating.”—Isaiah 65:17, 18. 20 What God’s servants can have now is relative happiness because they know his will and have accurate knowledge of the marvelous blessings soon to come in his paradisaic new world. (John 17:3; Revelation 21:4) That is why the Bible can say: “O Jehovah of armies, happy is the man that is trusting in you,” “happy is everyone fearing Jehovah, who is walking in his ways,” “happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.” (Psalm 84:12; 128:1; Matthew 5:5) Thus, in spite of the present difficult circumstances we have to contend with, we can have a substantial measure of happiness. Even when bad things happen to us, we do not become saddened as do those who do not know Jehovah and who do not have the hope of eternal life.—1 Thessalonians 4:13." To help with making the move away from your current living arrangements, you might be encouraged by reviewing the life story in Awake! June 22 1980, "Homosexuality, How Rewarding As A Way Of Life". The man whose story appears there, left a partner of ten years in order to conform to Chritian teaching. (He did not do this arbitrarily, It was done thoughtfully and with great consideration for the feelings of his partner). We feel sure that you will find some encouragement via this site, and truly wish you all the best in your endeavor, and will be pleased to help in any way possible. |
| Name: | Aaron |
| Comments: | Dear Brothers and Sisters,
I found this site a little bit too late. I am 18 years old- I have struggled with homosexuality most of my teen age life. I drowned in it for many years- I became an aux. pioneer, then a regualr pioneer- (those were the happiest days of my life) but then I became depressed- it seemed that every were I turned- the TV- the radio- the internet- world peers- everything was GAY GAY GAY. Again I suffered from depression and so I concluded that the reason I was depressed was because I was gay and because I could not practice that lifestyle. After months of debating and self pity- I gave in. I moved away from home. I quit going to the Kingdom Hall, and I found a boy friend. Everything seemed so wonderful. We got an apartment together. I found a job. We seemed so happy. I mean why wouldn't I be happy- I finally had what I wanted didn't I. I really loved him and I felt that he really loved me. I bragged that I didn't have those Old Jehovah's Witnesses to bring me down anymore- I could be me myself. WHAT A LAUGH!!!! Here is the truth. Although I thought I should be happy- I really I am not. I found out that the depression I had wasn't because I was gay and Jehovah's Witnesses were not letting live my life- IT WAS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT EVER GOING TO BE HAPPY IN THIS SYSTEM.AS LONG AS SATAN IS IN CONTROL WE CAN NEVER TRULY BE HAPPY. I remember an AWAKE article from this 1970's it's entitled "Is the gay life really so gay?" NO it isn't. Moving out and being "gay" did not bring me a more satisfing life. I took up drinking and smoking to drown the way I felt. I sat on the couch last night- readign my bible- for the first time in weeks. While my boy friend sat in the bedroom watching porno. Our life together was nice in a way- but it had no purpose and no hope for the future. The only thing that glued it together was sex. SEX and "love" are not enough. I sat and read in my bible. Tears welled up in my eyes. I remembered the happy times I had out in service. Teaching people the good way in which to walk. I remember the laughs and hugs and even tears we had at the KIngdom Hall. I remembered the conventions and the conversations about the BIble and its hope. I miss it so much. If I could back in time I tell that stupid Teenager- that he wasted the last year of his life- longing to ge "Gay" and happy- when really he was in the happiest place of his life- in Jehovah's house- in Jehovah's heart- in Jehovah's love. I am going back home. I have desided- as hard as it is going to be- to leave here- to leave him- to leave it all behind and to come home. To home to mom- to grandma- to grandpa- to the congregation- and most of all COME HOME TO JEHOVAH!!!! If your a JW out there- and you think that you'll just be so much happier being gay- TRUST ME- LISTEN TO ME- you will not. Stick with JEHOVAH and his people and his word- you cant be happy alienated from God- that's what started this whole mess in Eden- that is why were here- because of sin. Thats why we have gay people because one man and his wife thought they would be happier on there own. No we their progeny are so messed up. BUT STICK WITH JEHOVAH- he will make all things new in his NEW WORLD so near at hand. Or if your like me and you have left home and the organization- lets make a pact. Lets come back. Lets go home and say " FATHER, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son" Remember there is more joy in heaven over one sinner repenting then over 99 righteous people. We have to trust that Jehovah nows what is best for us. He created us. He knows what is best. Even if we think somethings feels SO right- Jehovah knows what is best. Remember Proverbs3:5-6 "Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight." I know that going home to Jehovah isn't going to be easy. I know that alot if not all of my fellow believers know about my gay past- I know that some might find that horrifying- and they probably wont be the same around me- but I KNOW WHO I SERVE- I serve JEHOVAH and this is HIS house- even if some wish to be like the OTHER son in the prodigal son parable- I know that its the right thing to do- I need to come home to the father. SO PLEASE IF YOUR LIKE ME- lets make a pact in our hearts- lets remember our dedication- and lets GO HOME- home to JEHOVAH- who loves us more then any man ever could. WITH LOVE, Your brother, Aaron |
| Name: | Phil |
| Comments: | In connection with your comments on prayers, it may be helpful to review the Question From Readers in The Watchtower of June 1 1985, "Are there things that we should avoid saying when we pray to Jehovah?" |
| Name: | A FRIEND |
| Comments: | HELLO. I AM GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU GUYS ARE STILL ABLE TO SUPPORT THE SITE.
I HAVE BEEN HERE, JUST NOT LATELY. I HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH A LOT OF THE SAME THINGS THAT MOST OF YOU HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH. I CAN IDENTIFY WITH ONE GENTLEMAN PRETTY WELL, ABOUT THE DESIRE FOR MEN IS SO STRONGLY THAT IF FOR ANY REASON SOMETHING WERE TO COME UP WITH A WOMEN IT WOULD ALMOST BE SOMETHING THAT I COULD PHYSICALLY GET SICK FROM. YOU KNOW THE FUNNIEST THING IS THAT I FIND WOMEN TO BE SOMETHING VERY NICE TO LOOK AT. THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT. I THINK THAT IT IS GOOD THING THAT THERE IS A SITE LIKE THIS TO SUPPORT BROTHERS AND SISTERS THAT HAVE THIS PROBLEM IF YOU WILL. I FOUND THAT WHEN I BECAME DOWN HARDENED THAT THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS IS JEHOVAH, AND NO MATTER WHAT HE WILL NEVER LEAVE ME, IF I EVER FEEL THAT HE IS NOT THERE, I KNOW THAT I AM THE ONE THAT HAS LEFT HIM. THATS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BEST THINGS THAT I HAVE FOUND BY REMAINING IN THE TRUTH FOR SO LONG, JEHOVAH IS ALWAYS THERE NO MATTER WHAT. I JUST NEED TO KEEP HIM CLOSE. I MUST SAY THAT THE PEOPLE THAT I HAVE ACTUALLY HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO ON THE PHONE HERE, HAVE BEEN RATHER UPBUILDING, AND I FIND THAT IT HELPS WHEN YOU HAVE A LISTENING EAR. AND SOMEONE WHO CAN UNDER SATND WHAT I AM GOING THROUGH. YOU KNOW AS WELL AS I DO IF YOU HAVENT TOLD ANYONE THAT I IS RATHER LONELY AT TIMES. ALOT OF THE TIME IT FEELS AS IF KNOW IS LISTENING WHEN YOU NEED THEM THE MOST. BUT NOW THAT I HAVE REALIZED THAT I CAN ALWAYS TALK TO JEHOVAH, I ALWAYS HAVE LISTENING EAR. I HOPE AND PRAY THAT LIFE BECOMES EASIER IN SOME FASHION OR ANOTHER FOR EVERYONE OF YOU BROTHERS, AND POSSIBLY SISTERS, AND THAT IF THERE IS A HAND OF HOPE THAT SOMEONE IN THIS ROOM, OR SOMEONE THAT YOU TALK TO HELPS YOU GROW THAT MUCH CLOSER TO JEHOVAH. ANOTHER THING, IF YOU WANT TO STAY SPIRITUALLY UPBUILT, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, WORK WITH YOUR PRAYERS, AND REMEMBER THAT IF YOU FEEL LIKE ALL YOU DO IS "ASK" FOR STUFF FOM JEHOVAH, THEN YOU PROBABLY AREN'T PRAYING ENOUGH. WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING START YOUR DAY BY SIMPLY SAYING " HELLO JEHOVAH" THEN "HOW'S YOUR DAY?" AND THEN JUST TALK TO HIM, I CAN GUARANTEE THAT NO MATTER WHAT YOU PRAY ABOUT IT WILL THEN BE ANSWERED IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER, IF YOU KEEP THE PRAYER GOING, AND TRYING TO WORK WITH IT. HE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE EVEN WHEN WE ARENT. WHEN YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO FIND JEHOVAH, GRAB HIM, AND HLD ON TO HIM WITH BOTH HANDS, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE AS WITNESS OF HIM ARE GOING TO MAKE IT THROUGH THIS HORRIBLE WORLD THAT SATAN OWNS. HOLD ON AS IF YOU ARE HOLDING ON FOR YOUR DEAR LIFE, BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING, HOLDING ON FOR YOUR DEAR LIFE. MUCH LOVE, FROM A BROTHER WHO IS STILL TRYING TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. P.S. I HAVE BEEN INVITED BY THE 'RBC' TO GO THE THE HURRICANE DAMAGED PLACES TO HELP WITH THE REBUILDING, SO PLEASE KEPP ME AND THE OTHER BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN YOUR PRAYERS, JUST AS I WILL KEEP YOU IN MINE. MUCH LOVE M.A.L. |
| Name: | nebby |
| Comments: | Hi guys,
I found it very interesting to see that some of you have experienced the great opportunity to "change". But I was wondering what exactly did change. Would you mind to share with us? Thanks Neb |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Thank you for mentioning that, Leon. The comment from those pages of the Reasoning book is found on the "What Does The Literature Say" page of this site. There is also:
Awake! June 8 1976 p11 "There is virtual agreement among experts on this point: the exact cause of homosexuality is unknown." |
| Name: | Leon |
| Comments: | Is changing is possible or not?
I have a short comment to make. The slave teach us in 'reasoning from the scriptures' on page 369 that the possibility of a genetic basis can be there. If it's genetic the thoughts/feelings are not always changable. Fightable is another thing.... Keep in prayer brothers and sisters! Agape, Leon |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear Jacob,
Thank you for your further comments. Firstly may I say how sorry I am to hear about the physical abuse that you suffered, and commend you for your perseverance in the face of it. Well done. (Hebrews 6:10) From your comments, it sounds as if you are in some doubt as to the ‘bona fides’ of this website. You should probably not contribute further until you have resolved this in your mind, either by studying the site, or by communication with me and others, or both. It would surely not be right for you to continue to contribute to a website which you suspect is apostate. It seems, from your comments, that you are in the first of the five categories referred to in the Therapy for Change page of the site: www.gaywitness.f9.co.uk/therapy.html . If I understand correctly what you say in your posts, you currently have almost no sexual feelings at all of any kind. Do I have that right? In your first post, you say that your same-sex attractions are OVER. I take this to mean that you now have no sexual feelings at all for males. In your most recent post you say “i'm only BEGINNING to develop attractions for the opposite sex.” I take this to mean that you have some very small amount of sexual desire for females. This is all most interesting. You mention “Maybe the soon the tide against reparative therapy will change or people will at least become more aware.” Well, for any clinical therapeutic approach to gain general acceptance and adoption by the medical profession, it is necessary for a solid basis of peer-reviewed clinical evidence of safety and efficacy to build up, with sound, peer-reviewed studies published in reputable medical journals, proving statistically significant results in repeatable trials. I don’t want here to repeat everything said elsewhere on the site, but there simply is no such clinical evidence base for Reparative Therapy. If in time it is amassed, then the tide indeed may turn, just as it turned, for example, in the matter of the aetiology of gastric ulcers. Looking at the NARTH website, I note that the comments of a Mr. Medinger are featured quite prominently. (http://www.narth.com/docs/medinger2.html ) He explicitly claims to have been cured of his homosexual desires by “a whole bundle of miracles” one day at a prayer meeting. Why this, on a site purporting to represent a clinical psychological understanding of homosexual desire, and a clinical approach to treatment? Anecdotes concerning therapy do seem to fall into two categories: 1) Those who have not long started out on the road of therapy and who feel it might be changing them and 2) Those who claim to have been completely cured by a miracle in connection with Christendom’s churches. (These are often involved in the sale of therapy or ministry in one form or another). I am so sorry to note your comment that “my biggest problem is finding support within the Christian Congregation”. I am surprised and distressed to hear this. For myself, it is the support of the Christian Congregation, in the form of timely spiritual food and much friendship, that keeps me going! I am upset to hear that things are different for you. With regard to your questions about comments in the 1995 “Young People Ask” articles, I believe that it would help you to carefully re-read these articles and the others that the Society has published on this topic, including the comments in “Reasoning From The Scriptures”, page 369/370. Of course, a homosexual orientation is but one of a wide range of “thorns in the flesh” ( 2 Corinthians 12:7) which may affect a Christian – and it is surely not the worst, even though, as the Society acknowledged in 1995, coping with this ‘thorn’ may at times seem “agonizingly difficult”. |
| Name: | Change IS Possible! |
| Comments: | I also want to note that it was the similarity in teachings by the slave and Reparative Therapy that drew me to it. I did not find reparative therapy by doing a search on Nicolosi's name. I stumbled upon RT by mistake while looking at google answers. There was a post there by a lady who wanted to help her brother. If i'm correct those posts should still be there. In 2003 i made one of the last posts in one thread under the name Jake.
When i ran up on www.peoplecanchange.com and read the info there and saw the similarity between it and the Slave's teachings and my own person experience i was overwhelmed. I made rapid progress. Unfortunately, my biggest problem is finding support within the Christian Congregation. For this reason also, assuming this site is not Apostate, i appreciate this site but i think we need to do more. As the number of witnesses grow there will be an increasing number of people who need support for same-sex atraction. Ultimately this is the slave's responsibility and as to how it will be handled in future we will have to wait on Jehovah. The Ex-gay movement is becoming more vocal and some including the American Counseling Association is changing its stance. The Ex-gays have won another 'victory' elsewhere. Maybe the soon the tide against reparative therapy will change or people will at least become more aware. Please post my email address. (email addresses are not currently being posted in this Guestbook: Phil) @yahoo.com If apostates contact me, i'll have to deal with them when they come. What would you like to know about Change? I don't know what i can tell you, Phil, but my own testimonial. The I DO EXIST video at www.idoexist.com is a good video that shows the lives of 4 people who have claimed to have changed. 2 people claim total change. Change is indeed a relative word and a work in progress for many of us. I'm satisfied with my results and i'm only BEGINNING to develop attractions for the opposite sex. Robert Spitzer did a study. I have a PDF copy of this study if you would like a copy. New Directions at http://www.newdirection.ca/research/index.html Has summaries of peer review info on a number of studies. It is a religious org. Here are the links for info on Spitzer's study specifically. http://www.newdirection.ca/research/spitzer.htm There are many other studies. FYI Reparative Therapy is supposively the secular form of this therapy. It is used as the umbrella term for all forms of conversion therapy. Transformation Ministries is the term for the religious aspect. Some religious orgs that support a "TYPE" of reparative therapy do use both terms or just one. For the most part Reparative Therapy refers to the secular aspect not the religious. It is very much related to religion because of the powerful Gay Rights Movement and the strong interest by religious people who want to maintain sexual integrity. Not all participants are religious however. Some have hated the gay lifestyle and left. There are also different versions of reparative therapy or different nauances. Some for example emphasize Gender Identity Therapy. Differnt organizations have different approaches to SSAD but they seem to follow the same principle. Basically whatever i can get from the ex-gay movement i use as long as it is not religious. I have never, so far, seen anything being advocated that conflicts with Divine Teachings. I don't think the Slave Class has a problem with NARTH because it is political or because of its religious alliances. NARTH does whatever it takes to get its point across. Most of the mainstream religions have bowed to some decree to the Gay Rights Movement. NARTH is trying to fill a growing niche. The slave class i think has a problem when it comes to advocating a therapy such as Reparative Therapy or one therapy over another. They try to stay neutral. This also prevents lawsuits and someone sayings 'the evil Watchtower advocated something and look at what it did to me.' I don't see what you mean about the "flaws" of reparative therapy. Unless you point something out in particular, and it must be small, i have not seen any conflict and i have read numerous books and info on the subject. Of course with a secular, non-JW org there are bound to be some, but i don't think there is anything significant. If so, please post. May Jehovah be with us all! All evidence points to the time we are living in as the 'Final Part of the Days.' Why lose your life chasing a false hope? Like the days of Noah, these days will end! Worship God! CHOOSE LIFE and LIVE! The Truth is not incomprehensible. It just takes one step at a time and a lot of digging. As for you Phil, i hope that we will soon see eye to eye. I am also proud of your decision to Worship God even if change is not possible. However, i am here to say that CHANGE IS POSSIBLE! You, too, worship God! Was that not an encouraging Watchtower Sunday Sept 11, 2005? |
| Name: | Jacob (Change IS Possible) |
| Comments: | Hi Phil. The sister that told me about you said you were a Witness. I just didn't see how a Witness could believe in biological causes and advocate them so strongly. I think it is out of harmony and misleding. Same-sex attraction DISORDER is evironmental nothing more.
I would like me email to be posted. (address removed. email addresses are not currently being posted in this guesbook: Phil.) @yahoo.com I definitely want to contact that brother that said he was appointed at 19 and finding it hard to maintain his faithfulness. I can deeply relate to him. If you have his email address you could give it to me so i can contact him. I would greatly appreciate it. "With someone LOYAL, You [Jehovah] with act in LOYALTY and with the FAULTLESS MIGHTY ONE, YOU will deal FAULTLESSLY!" God's WORD IS TRUTH! I have come a long way in the truth. My parents are not Witnesses and were opposed. I used to be dragged out of bed by the feet and pent against the wall with a fist in face. I was Baptist. My grandfather a Baptist minister. I had to sneak and have bible studies. I have ABSOLUTE belief in God's Word the Bible and its power to make us all WORLD CONQUERORS if we so desire to EARNESTLY SEEK HIM! I wrote from work and took too long doing that. I just feel it is very DAMAGING to convince especially young people that SSAD is BIOLOGICAL. I have not had the chance to read the entire website. I'm sorry. But i saw BIO supporting talk here and as young people we are so venerable. Everywhere we are hearing that we are born this way and that change is not possible. This is not true as i have changed. It is so much easier for me to worship God now that I've found reparative therapy. I will read more of your site. And i do appreciate your balanced replied. However, it is indeed a truth that the Slave does not support the idea that we are born gay. Nor is there any scientific proof. The GBLT movement try to make it appear that the only answer is biology. However, there are numerous people who claim change has taken place and recently Robert Spitzer has changed his mind about reparative therapy and ex-gays. You say that the Slave corrects or disagress with RT on some theory or point. In what way? I don't see where the two conflict. Thanks again for you patience. I have a talk to work on for tomorrow, but i will be happy to talk more in the future. I live in Alabama and we will be doing a lot of relief work in Mississippi this coming weekend. I do identify with the brother mentioned early and i would at least like to talk to him. SSA had gotten so bad for me i had to tell the body of elders in November of 2001. I taught i was going to explode. This was my spiritual lupus disease as i called it. After all that i've been through satan seemed to be determined to make me destroy myself. I saw all my friends getting married and moving on with their lives. I felt this was not fair as i had worked hard for True Worship. But because i believe in the Truth i have been privileged to see more than the eye can see. May Jehovah be with us all! I appreciate you posting my post. I was afraid you were apostate and would not post. We call ALL be World Conqueror! Worship GOD! He will indeed hear us if we earnestly seek him! It does take hard work and you will be tested. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dear friend,
Thank you for your two very interesting posts. If you take time to read the earlier posts in this Guestbook, you will see that email addreses are not being made public at this time. If you take time to look again at the three 1995 Young People Ask articles, you will see that Dr. Nicolosi is mentioned in two of them. You will see also that he does NOT appear to have been interviewed, but simply quoted. Awake! was also careful to point out some flaws in his position. Dr. Nicolosi's teachings are surely not synonymous with those of Christ's Faithful and Discreet Slave. Awake! from time to time quotes from secular 'authorities', where these seem to contribute usefully to a discussion. That, of course, is completely appropriate. In touching on matters of science, medicine and other areas outside of matters the Bible directly covers, Awake! can only go on the best available science of the day. That also is perfectly appropriate. But as human knowledge advances, yesterday's science becomes out of date. An article on Diabetes written in 1926 might have been cutting-edge in 1926, but it would be off little use today, for in 1927, Insulin was discovered. It is notable that the Watchtower CD ROM only has Awake! going back to 1970. So much of the science and worldly knowledge prior to then has now been superseded by more helful information. It is also notable that: Dr. Nicolosi has never again been quoted in the Watchtower Society's literature in the succeeding decade; that the NARTH website prominently features a Mr A. Medinger who claims to have been cured of his homosexual feelings by "a whole bunch of miracles" at a prayer meeting, rather than by any 'therapy', and that "Reparative Therapy" seems to be strongly connected to what is caled the "American Relgious Right" - i.e., to relgiion and politics. If you take time also to read what the Watchtower Society has published over the years on homosexuality, you will not that NOT ONE example has EVER been given of a person having changed his or her sexual feelings from homosexual to heterosexual. Of recent articles, your careful readings of the experiences of Martin and Justin will show you that they changed behaviour, not feelings. It is excellent that you are able to serve your brothers and sisters as a Ministerial Servant in the Christian Congregation. No doubt your hard work for the brothers and sisters is much appreciated. If you take time to read the "Literature" page of this site, you will see from the Reader's letter in Awake! of December 8 1995 that a man can be a Ministerial Servant and have homosexual feelings. Elimination of them is not a pre-requisite to appointment, as that letter makes explicitly clear. You will see from the "Therapy" page of this site, that I am VERY interested to hear from any individual who would be willing to describe how his or her feelings changed from homosexual to heterosexual attraction. There has so far only been one such willing person, and he stopped corresponding some time ago. If you could describe HOW your felings changed, that would be MOST helpful. I must stress that I am personally COMPLETELY open to evidence on this matter. Everything that I have looked at so far has tended to suggest that while change of BEHAVIOUR is possible, change of DESIRE is not. I will be so happy and fascinated to learn otherwise. I am familiar with all of the websites you mention. There is a very extensive thread on Reparative Therapy in the Forum part of this site. If you were willing to take the time to read it, I am sure that we would all be most interested in your response. Thank you very much for getting in touch. Kind regards, Phil. |
| Name: | AWAKE IS RIGHT! |
| Comments: | A faithful minister. I used to feel the same way. I prayed to Jehovah two years ago about my condition. I told him i was a ticking time bomb. Jehovah did indeed answer my prayer. It took some work and it is not as easy for everyone but i think it is worth the try.
you can email me if you like I too was appointed at 19. I've been appointed now for 8 years. My elders are very well aware of my condition and i expect further appointment in the near future if all goes well. I am a virgin and i've NEVER been before a judicial committee and i thank JEhovah for that. May Jehovah be with us all. It is indeed the time of the End! We can all be WORLD CONQUERORS! Have Faith in God! |
| Name: | AWAKE! is RIGHT! |
| Comments: | My same-sex attractions are OVER! And Reparative Therapy does work!
But, I am ssad. I am sad, for one, that so many of us have to cope with this problem of same-sex attraction. I am further sad because some of you do not believe the clear teachings of our Faithful and Discreet Slave Class! I came to this site because i was told that the owner did not believe in Reparative Therapy and would not believe in it until he learns otherwise. In 1995, our dear Slave Class was loving enough to provide 3 Young People Ask articles on the issue of homosexuality and same-sex attraction in which Dr. Nicolosi was interviewed. I do believe that if the Slave Class considered him a FRAUD they would not have abused already distressed faithful Witnesses with his so-called propaganda. Awake is not flimsy! It does its research and if it found merit to Dr. Nicolosi, then maybe we should not be so quick to condemn something just because it DOES NOT WORKED Particularly FOR US! It has helped thousands and will help thousands more. Further a belief that we are born this way (NORMAL OR NATURAL) would mean there is NOTHING we can do about it. Either the Bible is wrong or our interpretation is what some will decide. Thus many will become discouraged and stop Walking in Jehovah’s Way! It is bad enough that many turn a blind eye to our condition and then we are told we have to deal with it the best we know how. Change is possible! Friends, Reparative Therapy does indeed work. Now whether you have to pay for therapy sessions is another issue. I didn't benefit from therapy session either. Some therapists waste your time. But not all do. Also, there are books, online forums such as www.peopleCANchange.com and retreats that those struggling with Same-sex attraction DISORDER can go to. There are many mediums that are not RELIGIOUS! I too saw the MISLEADing show on TV about so-called conversion therapy. it is a distortion of the truth! People CAN and DO change. I am one of them. The slave class has articles showing that people have also learned that homosexuality is not immutable. I have been baptized 13 years. I've been appointed for 8. I found it very hard at one time to deal with SSAD. I prayed to Jehovah about 2 years ago and stumbled upon www.peoplecanchange.com. It has been the answer to my prayers! It said almost the exact same thing in the Awake! magazine. There is no way i could have continued to deal with this disorder faithfully without this info. I am a baptized witness. I have change. I remain a virgin and a DEVOUT! Jehovah's Witness. Had a sister not told me about this site i would have thought it was apostate. Teaching that biology is the cause of SSA is tantamount to APOSTASY! I do respect all people's views and i don't wish to label those struggling one way or the other if they are truly misinformed and striving their best to worship God in this time of the end. But i do think it is wrong to discourage people from something that might help simply because they personally doesn't like it. I hope that since my message, though not in line with the principles on this site, BUT not out of harmony with the CLEAR teaching of our HOLY and WISE FAITHFUL SLAVE CLASS will not be deleted. Reparative Therapy DOES work. For some people it doesn't but that doesn't mean i won't work for you! For more info please visit these sites: www.peoplecanchange.com (online forum, it can point you in right direction) www.gaytostraight.com or .org (can't remember) www.IDOEXIST.com (has a great video on change! Worth every penny! I showed to several witnesses) Neither of these are religious sites. There are also many books too. Coming Out Straight by Richard Cohen Reparative Therapy for Male Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi Battle for Normality Go to www.amazon.com and type in Reparative Therapy! May JEHOVAH be with us all! It is indeed the Time of the End! It is God’s Will that ALL SORTS OF MEN be SAVED and come into an ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE OF TRUTH! |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | J.B., I am afraid that unfortunately I don't know of any way to get a copy of the programme. I recorded it but the recording is faulty. And I can't see any indication of it being repeated. I will keep looking though.
Wesley, welcome. I hope you will find encouragement. As to 'causes', the accumulation of the most recent studies seems to be pointing firmly to a biological cause for homosexual attraction. Old clichés about bad parenting do not stand up, and parents should not be blamed when offspring have 'gay' feelings. |
| Name: | Dave |
| Comments: | Hi Jay, Good to hear from you.I lost your email address some time ago. We met on the last site that is now closed down. I have thought about you here and there and wondered how you were doing. Good to hear your still hanging in there. Dave |
| Name: | Wesley |
| Comments: | I'm Wesley and am a 20 year old homosexual brother in the US. I've donated every possible reason for why I have these feelings imaginable (bad parenting, biology, rebellious deviance, et cetera) and only the doctrine you all have adopted ever fit me. I've been looking for a while for others in my posistions who thought like me, who didn't think I was a hypocroite or a self-loather. Now I believe I have found them with you. May Jenovah bless you all. |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Phil,
Is there any way we Americans might be able to get a copy of that documentary you mentioned? Strangely, you'd think that in such a liberal-minded country as the U.S. (I know that's debatable), there would be more media coverage of that sort of thing. But, of course, Europe and especially London are much more liberal than we are. So, anyway, if someone knows how I could get a copy of that broadcast, I'd appreciate it very much. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com/therapyfor.htm |
| Comments: | Did anyone see the very interesting, candid and moving BBC television programme "Sad To Be Gay" last week?
This well-made documentary followed one man's visit to "Love In Action" in Tennessee, USA, in an attempt to change his sexual orientation. It also had a brief review of 'change' ideas and methods of the past. A thoughtful and well-presented programme, it very strongly confirmed all the impressions I have gained from extensive reading and online research into such 'therapies' which are sold to people wanting to change orientation. I would be interested to hear what others thought of this timely documentary. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | jay, it's completely understandable that you wouldn't want to discuss all your 'disquieting thoughts' in a public forum such as this, but would prefer to do so with one or two privately.
Currently the experiment is being tried of not having email addresses in the public Guestbooks. This is mainly to protect the privacy of those posting. Some have in the past used email addresses known to friends who weren't aware that they coped with this particular 'thorn in the flesh'. They then risked this private matter becoming public. The best way to have more private discussion is probably to obtain the password and to participate in the Forum part of the site, where some email addreses are shown. |
| Name: | jay |
| Comments: | is there a way we can privately reach some of these brothers to talk about their experiences? i'm a 22 yo brother struggling with the same issues, and it would be nice to be able to share these thoughts quietly with someone, instead of on a forum...
i honestly don't mean to be selfish, but it's difficult to share all these disquieting thoughts in an open forum. i know some email addresses were available before, but i notice that they're not anymore. |
| Name: | Dave |
| Comments: | Hi Airsmiles,
Thanks for your frank comments. I certainly do appreciate where you are coming from. I have had these comments from gay friends in the past. I am sorry if I sounded like I was telling everyone that this was a solution and 'go and get married'. I really just outing myself and my situation to reach any others in the same situation. I appreciate everyones warm comments as in the past I have been criticised for getting married and the trauma it would cause my wife. I believe that having to do a lot of soul searching and digging deeper emotionally only gives you a better empathy that you can give to your wife, something that many 'straight' men do not give and have shocking relationships. Do not get me wrong though, I am Gay, and I really struggle with being faithful to my Wife and Jehovah. Hang in there. Dave |
| Name: | airsmiles |
| Comments: | Hi Dave,
Read your comment with interest and just wanted to share this thought with you. There are quite a number of gay brothers who are in the same position as me. The problem is that to me the idea of a sexual relationship with a woman is truly repulsive and would make me possible physically sick if I tried it. In addition a very close friendship with a woman is not particualrly appealing to me either. It seems that there are some brothers that can engage in this side of the marital arrangement, yes maybe it is difficult but they seem to be able to have a reasonably "normal" life and all the benefits that go with that, someone to cuddle, kids etc. They are able as you mention to have a close relationship with their wives and the friendship that goes with that.As you can probably see from what I say, to be in the position that myself and a number of brothers are in means that there is no family life option for us. I read your posting with great interest though and am glad that you have this in your life. |
| Name: | Chess |
| Comments: | Hey afaithful minister dude. It is tuff to write I agree, and that's a chance i once took also and i have benefited from it thankfully. No doubt all of us on this site feel or have felt the same way as you do. I was raised in the truth too and in my case i would have gone on in the truth married and half happy coz marrying at this age is a common occurance and the brothers in my hall are at the age of taking interest in sisters, i kid myself into thinking i could pull it off. Not me lemme tell ya. Reliance on Jehovah helps too, i agree. I'm a man of heart so i sympathize with you dearly. It's good that you have a strong desire to serve Jehovah because he will give you relief as long as you're genuine. We're here to help ease your mind if you need it, of course with Jehovah's blessing.
Like we learned in a recent TMS, thought leads to desire to action to consequence. It's good that you catch your thoughts early. At 20-something, marriage and relationships are a common topic among our neighboring and our congregation. As I mentioned earlier, many are at the age of marital interest. I feel you dude. Yeah, it would be a lie to marry if your heart is not complete to her. Wouldn't it be better to wait on Jehovah to correct our flaws before we attempt a sacred bond of union, even if it means waiting on the new system? I'm glad you pray about your thoughts. You're a good example to some of us. It's not good to be depressed as we do serve a happy God. I feel for you tho because I've gotten close to that point before and I was lost all around, hopefully it doesn't come back. From the very little I know about you I gather that you're serious about not wanting to upset Jehovah and I'm sure he will provide a way out for you as a result of your heartfelt plea. Isn't it scary, the thought of living the rest of your life without a significant other? I agree with you. I like to think that this system will not last decades more but what do we do in the meantime while being faithful, waiting patiently to be rescued from our defect? Yup, it's totally a tuff cookie. Although we can't be normal in this system, we can draw strength from personal experiences of each other and i'm here for discussion if you need me. regards Chess |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Dear Faithful,
I really know the feelings you expressed, and I feel your pain and loneliness--I guess it's just something we'll have to accept and make the most of until the New System. I wish I could meet someone like you--I have no friends, so I'm really about to lose my mind. I'm thinking of just taking a road trip by myself, to clear myself of these anxieties, and to draw closer to Jehovah. You mentioned that you have been a ministerial servant since you were 19, and are currently a pioneer. Jehovah obviously, then, is using you, and He knows you more intimately than anyone can know you, and He knows why you suffer from the sexual feelings you have--that it's not your fault, so you can't blame yourself. If you want to be angry, be angry at Satan and Adam and Eve who put us all here in this stupid condition. Notice what the theme is on our calendars for this month: Single people devoting their lives to Jehovah. |
| Name: | afaithful |
| Comments: | Hi,
It's tuff writing this because I've never told any one about my HF. I'm Ministerial Servant have been since I was 19. I was raised in the truth. Both my parents are faithful servants of Jehovah. I've always struggled to come to terms with my situation. I have a very strong desire to serve Jehovah and that has gotten me through a lot of difficult periods (personal in nature) in my life. Lately It seems that my situation is starting to get the best of me. I have to constantly pray to stop my self from having bad thoughts. Most of my friends by now are getting married, are engaged or have a girlfriend. Although I feel happy for them, I can't help feeling depressed sometimes. What am I going to do? I have had some sisters approach me with very obvious intentions, but because of my inclination I know I would never be able to fully make them happy. I know I wouldn't be happy lying to her or my self. This has been the source of several nights without sleep. To make matters worse my interest in people of the same sex has aggravated. I cant remember the last day I haven't had to force my self to stop thinking of that by praying to Jehovah. My parents have started noticing my depression. Event though my service privileges and pioneering keep me busy, and have helped a lot, there are time when I wish there was a magic pill I could take to stop feeling like this. I obviously do no want to upset Jehovah in any way I have dedicated my life to him an I plan to continue serving him until I die. How ever spending the rest of my life with out a significant other is something I'm not looking forwards to. Why can't I just be normal? ...Why?...I guess there is no sense in dwelling on it. I'd be interested in talking to some with experience who has been able to overcome a similar situation. What has helped you? what do you do to keep yourself in check? with brotherly love afaithful minister |
| Name: | j.b. |
| Comments: | Akis,
Sometimes I feel Jehovah is using the brothers through this website as a means of answering our prayers, giving us the encouragement that we need to keep on going. It is very true what you said, that happiness comes only from Jehovah, and he wants us to be happy. I keep praying to Jehovah for a way out of this mundane life that my parents have created for me, so that I can create my own life and be more complete and productive to Jehovah's glory, not my own. I need to figure myself out, away from everyone else who doesn't and can't understand me. I think we probably all feel this to a greater or lesser degree. I don't know why you weren't able to contact me via email--it seems to be working for everyone else. |
| Name: | Andy |
| Comments: | Dear Phil,
I´m glad, that I´ve found this page. I don´t know, what to write, because my english is not so good, but I hope, that this page will help us all, to learn to live better with our feelings. The relationship to Jehovah is the most important thing, what it´s worth to live for! Lovely greetings to all of you! With Jehovah´s help we´ll make it! |
| Name: | Akis |
| Comments: | Joshua Bailey!
I tried to email you brother but your email seems to be off somehow. I hope you are feeling better. We all seem to be a little more needy than others, and we really do need extra help from Jehovah and fellow friends. We have the responsability to care for eachother. Jehovah is a happy God and he wants us to be happy despite everything, and we can do this by staying close to him, within his immediate reach. Happiness comes from him. He will never disappoint us! he gives us all the strength we need to endure! He knows how much we can handle! 1 cor 10:13! Brothers and sisters hold on tight, a brighter future is right ahead! We can do it! |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Dave, Leon and Becky, thanks for your comments.
Leon, respecting your comment "Be who you really are, not how another wants you to be", the crucial thing, surely, is to strive to be who God wants us to be. Becky, we're sure that your understanding sympathy will be a great help to your daughter. A homosexual orientation is a difficult 'thorn in the flesh' to cope with, certainly, but it's doubtless far from the worst 'thorn' that might affect a Christian. The scriptures leave us in no doubt that God and Christ value the efforts of humans to serve them faithfully despite difficulties. Dave, your comments are certainly thought-provoking. A marriage based on friendship, companionship and esteem rather than primarily on romantic or sexual attraction is a venerable idea, and it is good that it is working for you. Where some have perhaps gotten into difficulties is when they undertook marriage in the expectation that it would change their sexual orientation. To ones with such false expectation, the subsequent lack of any such change has sometimes proved a crushing blow. Frankness, openness and honesty between prosepective mates would seem to be the only right thing, and happily in your case, this seems to have worked. |
| Name: | Becky |
| Comments: | Phil,
Thank you for having this website. I am a 51 year old sister with a teen daughter struggling with same sex attraction. I am doing everything I can to learn about this and to figure out how to help her. I have known several people over the years that gave up before they even sought help. So, I am very glad that there are people hanging in there as I knew there had to be. Be assured that you who struggle with same sex attraction are as precious to Jehovah as any of his other sheep. |
| Name: | Leon |
| Comments: | To Simon.
Dear Simon I am also a F/M transsexual. And it is too complicated issue to put transsexuality as black as white as some do. Often it is mixed up with 'transgenderists', wich is a total different thing. Transsexuality is close to intersexuality from the studies I made of it. If you are programmed male in mind and soul no one can change that how hard you try. Impossible. No one can exact judge how Jehovah will see it. But Jehovah sees the heart and the struggle. But being honest towards yourself is the most important thing I think. Although people want to put us in a box and tell us how THEY like to see us because they don't understand it at all, plus 'the unknown makes unloved'. What is important is to be YOURSELF and honest to yourself. Be who you really are, not how another wants you to be. I don't know how much you have gone through with psychological tests etc.? It would be a good thing to get yourself psychological tested IF you really are TS or that maybe there are other groundings to feel confused in the body because that can be a possibility too. Simon, I wish you all the best and the best thing a human ever can do, wich gendere someone has, to get to know Jehovah because HE is the one and only true God who will bring this system to an end and solve all problems of the world and change this nasty world in a paradise again where will be no suffer, tears and death... Take care! Agape Leon |
| Name: | Dave |
| Comments: | RE: Marriage
Hi, As it has been raised I thought I should tell you my situation. I have been married for 8 years and have two kids. We are very happily married. When we were courting I was honest with my now wife and told her my problems. She said that as long as I was trying to do the right thing in the truth and would stay faithful she wanted to marry me. I was troubled and broke it off. She thought hard and came back to me saying she understood and we could work it out. She is a wonderful wife and very thoughtful and understanding. I have had a few problems where my gay side has come out and we have talked about it and things have been ok. I do feel that maybe she doesnt understand how deep my gay feelings run and wonder if she ever catches me looking at other guys, but she has never said anything. I do feel a little sorry for her as although we do have sex, I am sure it would be more frequent with a 'straight' husband. I know it seems like a weird situation but we have a really good marriage. I think that more important that just sex is really loving and liking each other and personalities meshing. We have seen many other couples in the truth split up and we have kept going and will keep going. My problem is with me not my wife. I am attracted to her but I know I am more gay than straight. I have not cheated on her but have been close and sometimes find it very hard. However I think even in a purely hetero relationship this could happen just the same. Basically, if you are becoming close to someone else of the opposite sex, dont just throw it away. Be honest. You never know. We have a great marriage and we both know it will be better in the new system, but heck I would have been so lonely without her and am SURE that I would have ended up with a guy, disfellowshipped and in the world. You just have to find the right partner. Feel free to drop me a line privately if you want to chat more. Dave |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | LJ, good question! One with which we (the editorial 'we') are currently wrestling.
The decision was taken to try putting posts up without email addresses, for a couple of reasons. One of the reasons was that in haste some had in the past mput up email addresses which others could recognise, and they later thought better of this and wrote asking for thier email address to be changed or removed, which all takes time. The decision about this is not a final one by any means - the situation is being assessed. Meantime, email addresses can be accessed via owner@gaywitness.f9.co.uk when private correspondence is sought, and responses can also be given by posting to the Guestbook. We do recognise that private correspondence may be preferable for delicate issues. Kind regards to all. |
| Name: | LJ |
| Comments: | Simon
I can somehow identify with you. You see, years ago I considered a sexchange myself. To make a long story short, thou it was the hardest decision I've ever taken, I got thru it, and I don't regret it. How I got thru it you ask,... It was the worst night of my life. I cried till I couldn't cry no more. I begged "God" to help me, that I wanted something better for myself. You see, I saw myself alone, with no money to support my decision to do a sex change, with only one option that would solve my problem. Before I tell you what the option was let me tell you that what made it even more difficult was that I made I very good looking woman. No make-up, no hormones, and already people thought I was a woman. You see, I went thru late puberty, I had no facial hair, soft voice, etc... Anyway, this made it hard for me because by then, I had been living as a woman for over 2 years and I thought it was the greatest and all of a sudden, I had to make this choice. It was either I quit the idea of a sexchange or I go thru with it and prostitute myself and accept the many offers I got from men that wanted sexual favors from me. I just couldn't do it,...I couldn't sink that low,...I just couldn't. The next morning, my dad knock on my door. He had traveled all the way from the state of Florida, to New Jersey. He had seperate from my mom and eventually they got divorced. He didn't have much with him as far as personal items, but he had a box full of the societies (WatchTower) literature. Surprising, cause he never was a witness, and at one point he even opposed my mother studying the bible. The box was the answer to my prayer, from Jehovah. That day, he took me to cut my long hair and I started the conversion back to being a man. It was hard but little by little, I did it, and let me tell you, on this very day, I am happy to be a man, I fully except it and like it! I could happen, just trust in Jehovah with all your heart. Proverbs 3: 5,6 |
| Name: | LJ |
| Comments: | Hey Phil,
If e-mail addresses are no longer being posted, How can one get in contact with others or privately respond to their pleas for help, or just conversation? |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Simon, thank you for getting in touch. We hope that your Bible discusions prove interesting and fruitful. Hopefully the "Transsexual" page of this site may have given some idea of the position of Jehovah's Witnesses on this issue, and perhaps private correspondence on the matter could be helpful and encouraging. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | j.bailey, most of the in-depth discussion takes place these days in the Forum part of the site. If you'e forgotten the password to it, email me to get it again. The issues you raise are complex and I think would best be discussed either in private correspondence or in the Forum. |
| Name: | Simon |
| Comments: | Hello everyone.I'm Simon,I'm 23 years old and a FTM transsexual.I am currently waiting for someone to come over to do the home bible study I requested.I was at work one day when a customer came in and handed me a copy of The Watchtower and Awake! magazines.It made me curious and I wanted to know more.
Last year I lost my father to cancer and ever since then I have been very interested in religion and for some reason I am very attracted to the Jehovah Witness Church but I'm afraid to accept a religion that could never possibly accept me if they knew the truth.If anyone has any thoughts feel free to e-mail me or send me an IM.Thanx |
| Name: | j.bailey |
| Comments: | Hi, everyone. I hope everyone still visits this site from time to time. Sometimes, it seems that months go by before I see a new post. I guess the way to combat that is to add to the guestbook myself.
I usually check in to share feelings and to attempt to encourage. This time, I'm asking for help. Since there are obviously some secretive aspects of my identity that I can't share with my friends or family, I have increasingly been feeling the need to deal with these issues on my own. However, living with my parents makes doing so impossible. I feel like I'm drowning, and I can't seem to find a means to escape. I'm not asking for money; I'm only asking for suggestions or links anyone might have so I can get out on my own and begin, finally, to grow spiritually and emotionally, into a man. Thank you all, and may Jehovah continue to bless you. |
| Name: | Phil |
| Homepage URL: | http://www.witnesses.plus.com |
| Comments: | Don't be bemused! If you posted recently to the Guestbook and wonder where your post has gone, it's in Guestbook 3 (see link at bottom of Homepage). Guestbook 3 was full, so we are now on Guestbook 4! |