If you don't have kids, but you'd accept them if Gawd or Jaysus or Nature or whomever gave you a baybee, you are not childfree. If you are childfree "for now" for any reason, you are not childfree. You are CHILDLESS, because you see your life as lacking something, otherwise you would't be planning to have kids eventually.

I won't comment on people who feel Destined to Breed to carry on the family name except to say: buy a ladder so you can get the fuck over yourself, please! You are likely NOT royalty, which isn't a good enough reason anyway. (Witness the losers that inhabit the family trees of those dynasties that survive today.)

As for carrying on *the family name*, open up the phone book in AnyCity and you will find all kinds of people with the name Lutz-N-Putz or whatever stupid surname you are thinking of carrying on. And if you can't find it in your city, go on-line to the national phone book because somebody has your stupid name. And do I ever feel sorry for any girl who has the misfortune to be born in a family like that.

Another thing to consider is whether you would whelp if you won the lottery. A childless/fence sitter considers that scenario: "If I won 130 million dollars, I could hire a nanny to raise the crotch dropping. I would have money to escape the Child for weeks at a time, or, worse yet, I would take Nanny and child to exotic destinations with me. I guess I would go ahead and do my *DUTY* and have a kid. The money would make the situation tolerable." Kinda fucked up, but there you go.

Contrast that with the childfree view, which is essentially, are you fucking nuts? No amount of money, help, or social approval changes the fact that having a child would be INTOLERABLE. It's a burden in any situation. I've heard many a CFer equate how they feel with being gay: it's a hard-wired trait. No amount pressure from society, family, church-goers could change it.

It is tiresome to hear people refer to themselves as "childfree for now." For that matter, this board is for people to rant independent of their parental or non-parental status. In some cases it's necessary to say whether you have kids or not. (Hint to lurking parents; it's almost never necessary to say you are a parent. In the seven years BRATS! was in existence, I can remember ONE case where it was a legitimate part of the story.) For that matter, gratutious mentions of how one is CF when it's not related to the rantare useless as well, although many times it is germane. Example: I am CF, and somebody told me I'm incapable of knowing real love, living a life as Jeebus intended, knowing a misbehaving child when I see one, understanding why I should be happy when my vacation got re-scheduled because of a Breeder.

But most of the time, nobody gives a shit whether you have kids or not. RANT AWAY!

Item one: It is possible to have good, well-behaved kids. I can already sense that this statement will cause outrage, but it's true. It doesn't happen often, but it's true. my sister married a guy who had a pre-existing sprog, so I got to know the little guy gradually and was able to judge his behaviour objectively and regularly. Sure, he's gone through bratty phases, but on the whole, he's damn well-behaved. So it is possible.

Item two: It's also possible to have terrible children. Rant #13 on this page, from anonymous, is an excellent description of the worthless brother of my best friend and the brother's worthless wife. We'll call the brother 'Fred', the wife 'Ethel', and their brat 'Jane' in order to protect the guilty. Fred and Ethel are both between 20 and 22, and Jane is 3. I've already told you that both Fred and Ethel are worthless; to wit, she's the laziest person I know (and I know some lazy f'n slackers, myself included) and he's an alcoholic who's perpetually jobless. He could have a job tomorrow if he wanted, but he's given up on the one thing that he has any skills in, which is rock quarrying. For those of you not familiar with rock quarrying, picture the old scenes of a bunch of convicts in striped suits chained together and splitting rocks with hammer and chisel. Now make them ex-cons, paychecks instead of chains, and blue jeans instead of striped suits. In the long run, it is a good idea to quit this job-it slowly destroys your brain, then your body breaks down. But maybe you shouldn't quit it for welfare. There's the background. Now, Fred tries to be a good father, using proper discipline, steady bedtimes, and such. He really does try. Ethel? no such luck. Instead of getting off her ass and doing something about the kid's brattiness, she just sits and hollers, 'Jane, stop that'. Result? Jane doesn't do what any female tells her to do. She's in preschool now, and the (female) teachers are mystified by this behaviour problem. Jane only sees me around about once a month, but she still does what I tell her to. This kinda contributes to my first point, I guess, but also shows how things can go very wrong.

Item three: We've largely forgotten, as a society, how to raise kids. Posts #66 (Prof R) and #67 (Big Papi) from the first page demonstrate this. It's been suggested that Prof R has 'blinders' and just can't see the monstrous behaviour. Judging by his description of the disciplinary style, I'd be more inclined to believe that it actually isn't happening very often. I say 'very often' because kids will be kids, and even when they were afraid of a beating when they got home, they sometimes misbehaved. Big Papi notes that he didn't misbehave often when he was a kid because of the threat of violence. He never got hit, but it never seemed like an idle threat. I can remember the same. I can't ever remember my parents laying a disciplinary hand on me (if I was even spanked, I was too young to remember), but right up until I moved out of my parents' house (last year) I often replied to some inquiries with, "Are you kidding? My mother would kill me!" And she could-she's 50+ and I bet she could tear my head right off with her bare hands, then go right back to mixing the cookie dough. That's what I was raised with, and when commenting on a bratty child, my parents often note, "none of you kids ever acted like that-especially not in public!" Damn straight. We were afraid of our parents, and respected their authority. And yes, we were all honestly of the opinion that Mom could kill us without missing a beat.

Item four: This world is too damn safe for kids. George Carlin has been quoted once already in this forum, and I think that a couple more quotes won't hurt. He'll tell you that "kids today have to wear a helmet for every outdoor activity except jacking off" and that when he was a kid, "the kid who swallowed one too many marbles, didn't grow up to have kids of his own". I think all of these bratty little shitheads would be quickly either smartened up or wiped out if they were allowed to get hurt. Think about it; if Bratley was forced to accept things like the rules of physics in situations as simple as riding his bike (head+cement=splat), he might be a little more accepting of the rules of civilization. And if little Bratley is too stoopid to understand the rules of civilization? Then the rules of physics and the laws of nature will get him before he gets old enough to become a threat to the rest of us. My folks are products of the 1950s, so in regards to playtime, I had a 1950s-ish upbringing. It kinda went like this: Fall off bike, scrape the hell out of knees, palms, elbows="Aren't you glad that wasn't your head?"=protect my fuckin' head in any similar situation for the rest of my life. Overprotection of children is blocking all of evolution's devices for teaching them things, and we aren't getting the lessons to sink in with lip service. I saw a local commercial for child safety where a group of turds was being asked, "Are you going to play near this busy road?" Turds (in unison):"Noooo!" I learned lessons like that from the non-busy road where I lived as a kid. It was out in the country, and the speed limit on it was 80 kilometers/h (about 50 miles/h). The small amount of traffic going by at that astounding speed about 20 feet from me-sometimes 10 feet-taught me that it was a bad idea to play near traffic, especially the heavy variety. Kids today don't get that kind of thing, and that teaches them that there are no rules. Or rather, it fails to teach them that there are rules, and that they do apply.

But I really, really hate bratty kids. And I hate their parents even more.

I went to a party where a saw a bunch of old mutual friends, they say, oh, what are you doing, haven't heard anything. Shit, can she tell them I worked my ass of and accomplished something other than getting knocked up??? NO, babbees mean the world to moos, they can't talk about anything else, so what you do doesn't count CFers.

At one point, I suppose after they injected the eggs back into her, she had to lie flat on her back for 72 hours. She actually had AN AIR HORN to summon her husband, who seemed like a decent guy who lost his nuts long ago. Are you hearing me, people? An AIR HORN! I'm female, and I'm totally appalled by the notion of treating your husband like your fucking slave. But I guess it's de rigeur for the suffering Moo Wanna Be.

The only good part of the show was at the end, when she took the pregnancy test and it was a resounding NEGATIVE. Score one for Uncle Chuck..that's all we need is more idiots cranking out babies.

At one point, I suppose after they injected the eggs back into her, she had to lie flat on her back for 72 hours. She actually had AN AIR HORN to summon her husband, who seemed like a decent guy who lost his nuts long ago. Are you hearing me, people? An AIR HORN! I'm female, and I'm totally appalled by the notion of treating your husband like your fucking slave. But I guess it's de rigeur for the suffering Moo Wanna Be.

The only good part of the show was at the end, when she took the pregnancy test and it was a resounding NEGATIVE. Score one for Uncle Chuck..that's all we need is more idiots cranking out babies.

Even in wifeswap, one can always see that the duhds never really take care of their own kyds and it is all the moo's work. I feel so sorry for the moos of the world who live like this, but then have to put on a happy face and convince us and themselves that it was alllll woooortthhh it.

Dig your own hole, moos, and jump right in.

"hey.. was browsing on yahoo personals and saw your profile..i am really new to all this and not sure what to expect.. i am in a really unusual situation for me and i will try to be as open as i can be here.. i realize my situation may not interest u at all.. and if that is the case.. thank u atleast for reading this.. i am a 6'5" 210 lb retired pro athlete (i dont mention that to impress u at all.. cause it was a while ago and no big deal really to me.. however it does cause me to require some discretion.. such as not being comfortable putting a face pic on my profile for just anyone to see.. but i can provide u more pics if u are at all interested..) i am looking for a good lady web friend at first.. chat, get to know and see what goes... dont know if u would be interested in something like that??

i am legally married..but in process of probably seperating.. i have 5 kids (yes 5) and so that is my concern about discretion to protect them.. several of the kids have ALOT going on right at the moment so my wife and i have both agreed not a good time to add more..if that makes any sense to u?? i am NOT looking to sleep behind my wifes back.. (matter of fact .. this isnt about sex ... although IF something would develope DOWN THE ROAD.. then we can handle that then) ..and at same time.. i am not looking to embarass her or my kids.. so i hope that makes some kind of sense?? ..

there is one pic on profile.. i also have access to a webcam

i was drawn by the sincerety of your profile and i have to say u really r VERY attractive. i am not looking to just base a relationship on looks.. since i would say i am fairly average looking.. but then i wont lie and say that your appearance wasnt a factor.. u have an INCREDIBLY CLASSY look.. which is very appealing to me..

so anyway.. i am willing to try to explain anything more u might want to know.. so i guess if u r looking for a real simple guy.. with no kids or issues..then i am not the guy.. but if u would like a sincere.. caring guy who has a few "complications" currently to deal with.. then i would love to chat further.."

We may get more rants if people were able to rant from the first page, not the last.
Done.

Crapleigh is a 30-something, selfish little asshole, the smarmiest little Christian bastard I've ever had the pleasure to know. His faults go beyond normal. He can't keep a job. If he pays for a car long enough to keep it from getting repossessed, he promptly wrecks it. He and his fluffy little Christian wifelet soak my dumbass friend for every dime they can get, and she's stoopid enough to pay. Plus, if they need something and can't find it in their house, they go to hers and "borrow" whatever they need. (Vacuum cleaner, VCR, vehicles, food containers, cat food, dog food, you name it.)

My dumbass Moo friend always brags about how much money they make (when Crapleigh isn't "between jobs" and how "talented" they are, even though Crapleigh has no education past high school no specific job skills.) She also moos how she's "never" paid for their mortgage. But what the fuck's the difference, really, when she's paid for everything else?

She's always talking about how well he's doing and how much he's grown up, at 30+. Moo, shall we review? Job history: He's had his current job about 3 months. He hasn't kept a job longer than 6 months in the past 10 years. Credit: His creditors have written him off as a loss. His credit history sucks. (Repossessions) He tried to get a car loan, and he best rate he could get was 15%. FIFTEEN PERCENT! You, the dumbass Enabling Moo, promptly co-signed. You may think he's doing well, but the credit companies, who are more objective, disagree. Cars in general: He's wrecked a couple. He can't get "regular insurance." He needs to get the high-risk, month-to-month kind. He's had numerous speeding tickets, parking tickets, had his license revoked before.

All this points to the obvious: he's a selfish little fuck who can't be bothered with paying his bills, driving with regard for other people, not acting like a selfish little fuck who's had everything handed to him. Yet Moo remains oblivious. Sucks to be Moo, and to have your smarmy DNA trophy who's picking your pocket and sucking up your life? All so she can be perceived as a "wuuunderful Moo-ther."

And spare me from what I call the Spayshul Mira-kul(TM) people, these people who look at ANY situation that involves a baybee and they deem it a SPAYSHUL MIRA-KUL, when they should be calling it a TRAIN WRECK. You know what I'm saying? Like when an 17 year old, who has no money of her own, no husband, no maturity and no way to support herself gets knocked up. A tragedy? No, it's a Spayshul Mira-kul. Or how about a 13 year old who gets knocked up by her stepfather? (A real example used by anti-choicers) Is this is tragedy, where the girls could have an abortion to prevent this cretin from spreading his seed on the world? No, it's a Spayshul Mira-kul!

Fucking breeders, you need to get over yourselves. The word "miracle" should be reserved for events that are rare and extraordinary, not something that has happened 6 billion freaking times over the past few years. Birth is not a "spayshul mira-kul." It's a biological function that results from the uniting of sperm + egg. Humans have the brains to prevent this, and it's TFB they don't use their brains more often!