... Dreambook ...scripted
Democracy Wall - China Mainland - June 4th Tiananmen Memorial

The Democracy Wall for China

Welcome to the WALL.

It is a Work-In-Progress, like much of Life. Created in 1999 to support the Petition at www.june4.org. Sadly, that site is gone, but The WALL lives on!


150 comments will appear on each page, or "Brick". Please Post anything You like. This Wall is a place for many views, so it has been rated "R" - adult content

... BUT Please:No profanity, hate speech, or incitement to violence.

Again, Welcome. We hope You like the new look.

- The WALL

Review our Moderation Policy


China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Pierre

Tuesday, February 25th 2003 - 11:48:51 AM

Pierre

pierre141@lycos.nl

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks. (Douglas Adams)

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL Admin

Sunday, February 16th 2003 - 09:50:53 PM

The WALL Admin

Commenting has been added for The Wall.

This will make it easier to talk about specific issues. Here is how it should work:

If You want to reply to a specific Posting, click on "Comment()" at the bottom of that entry, and a comment box will pop up (javascript must be enabled in Your Browser). Enter the comment there, and it will have a permanent link to that entry on The WALL.

To start a new discussion, just click on "Respond on the WALL" (just above the "Comment()" link) on ANY entry. This will bring You to the form that will create a new entry/Posting to the WALL.

So now, rather than Posting on the WALL back and forth to each other, We can Post a topic, and that will serve as the start of a discussion thread *in Comments* rather than Posted entries.I hope You will find this more convenient. Each page, or "Brick" in the WALL will hold up to 150 Posts.

Thanks for coming, and caring about Human Rights and Democracy.

-The WALL Admin

PS. Please Comment on this Post, and test out the smilies. Notice the list of smilie codes at the bottom of the Comment Pop-up window. Type the associated code to render the smilie You want. For example, to get the little animated smilie that nods, You would type ":nod:" in the Comment entry form. It will show up in Your displayed comment as the animated nodding smilie.
-twa

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Samantha Williams

Friday, February 14th 2003 - 10:22:03 PM

Samantha Williams

willsamantha4@yahoo.com

This wonderful site is worth dropping a line in your guestbook to say thanks!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of AA

Thursday, February 6th 2003 - 04:52:36 PM

AA

I have lived in the US long enough to know that whatever information printed in the English language will have some sort of propaganda against the Chinese...so if anyone knows of a non-propragandized article about Tiananmen Square and China, I would really love to read it. Post a link to it if you can.

Thanks!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David

Friday, January 31st 2003 - 12:51:31 PM

David

David457@yahoo.com

A very informative website with lots of useful information.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Nietzsche

Sunday, January 12th 2003 - 11:56:20 PM

Nietzsche

nietzschecarduchi@yahoo.com

Any kinds of democracy have its base of the comtemprory reality of the nation.If the nation goes down the chaos,how can it establish the democracy?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Adam

Friday, January 3rd 2003 - 10:08:45 AM

Adam

Adam372@yahoo.com

Nice break from the ordinary. Keep up the great work.
<< thanks. i am now eliminating link entries. emails might be next if abuse continuse...-THE WALL>>

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lili

Wednesday, December 25th 2002 - 06:50:08 AM

lili

responsed@ycschool.com.cn

Truth is turth,no one can change it !

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Lester Lee

Saturday, December 14th 2002 - 11:18:34 AM

Lester Lee

geerk304@hotmail.com

Well David Krouse

I have to say you are a bit too radical over the chinese government. No body and i mean no body would want to their country to screw up and i think that goes for the officals in china.

i think what you should do is give it some time. China is gradually reforming. They are more concerned with human rights (in fact they got seats in the UN human rights commission when the US were kicked out) so i think we should all be patient.

about what happened on Tiananmen square... i have to say it is a great shame of my country. so many people with the potential to make the country great left china because of that incident (including my family.) I am however prou of the one or two students that were brave enough to resist the government, especially the one that stopped the tanks.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of K. Qian

Thursday, December 5th 2002 - 05:12:40 PM

K. Qian

pandak23@hotmail.com

Hello, I am an Chinese in the US (like all of you? maybe?)
But I am just in high school, and am doing a project on Tiananmen Square.

My project is for a National History Day, a Nation-wide competition. I think this year's theme is "Rights and Responsibilites" is very compatabile with the Tiananmen Event.

So could you help me, please?
Even talking with a Chinese who supports democracy and rights like freedom of speech, or even a paricipater in the 1989 movement is very valuable for me to have - even over e-mail or the net.
I thought this would be a good place to ask...
What are you views on the Communist government's rights back in 1989? Did they abuse their power? (Of course, going by emotional viewpoint, definetely. But by politics, did they?)
What was their responsibilty toward the students and demonstrators, and what were the demonstrater's responsibilites to their government?
And view on Tiananmen would be very helpful.
Thank you very much.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Monday, December 2nd 2002 - 08:33:48 PM

David Krouse

To all who read this China is controlled by a illegal and evil regime. This regime has dominated China for over fifty
years and many times have thrown China into a blood bath especialy Mao who's "great leap forward" and Cultureal Revolution that killed millions and recked the lives of many more. The students who set up Democracy Wall and occupied Tiananmen Sqaure saw the State for what it was, they wanted freedom and liberty for everyone and because the spokeout were murdered and put in labor camps were many have died. The State cares nothing for the people, don't believe what the government says, they lie. You know when they tell you something it is a lie,they lie to keep the people of China bound and decieved. Dont believe what the government says they lie. Awake people of China,be silent know more speak out,tell the world what they have done to you,let them intimadate you no more. We have a mission, to save China.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Serena

Saturday, November 30th 2002 - 09:58:25 PM

Serena

Serena339@yahoo.com

great site will be back again and again!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of ralle

Friday, November 29th 2002 - 07:18:46 AM

ralle

ralf@mail.tt

Mein Hobby ist es Gästebücher zu besuchen. Das ist immer ganz interessant und widerspiegelt so, was die Leute wirklich denken.
War auch interessant bei Dir !

Komme mal wieder !
komm doch mal zu mir

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Angel

Tuesday, November 26th 2002 - 05:05:47 PM

Angel

AngelJoy05@hotmail.com

I know how much Democracy is needed in China, because I have lived there. I have met people who have lived through the Tiananmen roit, people who have been thrown in jail for being Christian, people who have come out of the Laogai camps alive. The "axis of evil" should not be the only focus of attention for the American government.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of jiangzemin

Thursday, November 7th 2002 - 09:16:40 PM

jiangzemin

jiangzemin@hotmail.com

we will never forget

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of BASIL

Thursday, November 7th 2002 - 11:56:49 AM

BASIL

Basil_M@212.com

I liked very much your web site.
My Email: Basil_M@212.com

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Angel

Saturday, October 26th 2002 - 04:26:00 PM

Angel

clement0820@yahoo.ca

I like your site very much. keep it up!!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of snowind

Saturday, October 19th 2002 - 06:38:30 AM

snowind

snowind1972@163.com

I want to know the truth.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Gerald

Thursday, October 10th 2002 - 06:51:23 PM

Gerald

gerald.steffens@gmx.de

As you can see there is some kind of guestbook abuse in progress. you should suppress the ability to post the homepage url and the quality of postings would increase. greetings from germany.
<<Yes. I am eliminating the Homepage URL field altogether. Sadly, it just distracts from productive and meaningful discussion. I may eliminate email links next. Anybody whose entry has been deleted, or who has abused this site in these ways, has been permanently banned from ever signing THE WALL ever again. This is based on their IP address. So if You find You are unable to sign, sorry, some other User had that IP when they pissed on THE WALL. Your ISP gave you that IP when You logged on. Try logging out, then back in, and You will likely have a different IP address, and be able to sign. -THE WALL>>

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Patrick

Saturday, October 5th 2002 - 12:17:21 PM

Patrick

I just found this site today, and am sure I will be returning to it many times. So long, bye Patrick

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Oliver

Saturday, October 5th 2002 - 12:15:05 PM

Oliver

Hi everyone!!! y nice site. Good job!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Thomas

Saturday, October 5th 2002 - 12:13:42 PM

Thomas

Greetings from Germany. I like your page very much!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of walter bauer

Monday, September 30th 2002 - 06:54:40 AM

walter bauer

barer@adfa.de

this is a very nice guestbook

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Dave Ross

Thursday, September 26th 2002 - 09:21:31 AM

Dave Ross

traveltothetop@fiberia.com

Nice Site.
Keep up the good work.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Wuwei

Monday, September 16th 2002 - 02:27:49 PM

Wuwei

wuwei2k2@yahoo.com

It is sad that China, a land of such great culture, has fallen victim to the cruel and despotic leaders.

In 1989, the evil dictator JZ (then a Party Official) ordered the brutal assasination of students protesting at Tiananmen Square, leading to great sorrow and anguish.

Today, the same villian persecutes Falun Gong, thus affecting 100 million practitioners and their families.

Heaven will not forgive the cruel persecution of people that has happened in China.

The wrath of the Gods will descend upon the villians...

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of daniel clark

Sunday, August 25th 2002 - 09:59:17 PM

daniel clark

xiuliandafa@hotmail.com

In 1989 on June 4th, the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army
at the command of Deng Xiao Ping murdered thousands of innocent Chinese Civillians. Then developed a propaganda campaign to fool the Chinese people that it never happened and it was the workers & students fault.

Now, more than 10 years later, the government murders the good people who practice Falun Gong, and develops a fake self-immolation and a propaganda campaign to fool the Chinese people.

What is so sad, is that the Chinese people have been fooled twice by such blatant lies.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Mike Krunde

Sunday, August 18th 2002 - 05:09:33 PM

Mike Krunde

Hallo. Tolle Seite und nen volles Gästebuch - gute Arbeit!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Steven D

Sunday, August 18th 2002 - 05:09:05 PM

Steven D

Nice Site! U did good work here! Keep it up!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL

Tuesday, August 13th 2002 - 12:12:04 PM

The WALL

The WALL is pleased to note that we have been linked from a news story (look for the story headed "Irony"_ at http://www.stoned-out-loud.com. This site is also mirrored at http://www.stonedoutloud.com, and stoned-out-loud.tripod.com . Thanks, Stoned Out Loud. -The WALL

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Lili Shen

Wednesday, August 7th 2002 - 06:27:04 PM

Lili Shen

shen7886@pub.sz.jsinfo.net

Good.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL admin

Wednesday, August 7th 2002 - 07:17:30 AM

The WALL admin

the adult video site from taboo.co.uk keeps trying to post a link to itself on this discussion site devoted to development of Democracy in China. The IP address used by "gareth" has been banned from ever signing this WALL again. It is not a place to advertise Your business (unless, of course, You buy a rotating ad banner from Dreambooks. It is a place to discuss ideas about Democracy and the enablement/encouragement of Human Freedom in China. If You want to advertise, please talk to Dreambook, or go elsewhere. Thanks. -The WALL

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Eric Wang

Sunday, August 4th 2002 - 07:33:35 AM

Eric Wang

ewangonline@hotmail.com

I don't know what really had happened during that night on June 4th,1989 in Beijing. However, as one of the youngsters of Chinese, I really appreciate those of my ancestors who had done something that was very earthshaking to the Chinese democratic progress. I hope the Chinese history would not abandon and forget those democratic fighters because they are our heros forever.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of navigator456

Saturday, July 20th 2002 - 03:49:33 AM

navigator456

yaowangba@163.com

search for truth

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of sinfonia

Wednesday, July 17th 2002 - 10:07:35 AM

sinfonia

do you remember the night? the blood the bang and the wound
in my head....
i dont forget it.never and never
Thirteen years ago I'm twenty.
The boy is dead,but I ALIVE.
HIS NAME IS LEE HANG
PLEASE TELL EVERYONE ,TELL MY GOD
I NEVER FORGET HIM

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Theo

Monday, June 17th 2002 - 09:27:55 AM

Theo

theo@love-contor.de

Very big Guestbook here. I´ll come back soon.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Saturday, June 15th 2002 - 05:04:35 AM

marcello passagrilli

imexmi@tin.it

Calling your book dreambook, is already something childish because it sounds like a sort of unreachable desire.
neverthless I think that the solution to reach real democracy (and we must spend few hours to define this cathegory) is the overcoming the present way of production that makes to many social differences and create so many ideologies and false problems.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Saturday, June 15th 2002 - 04:53:54 AM

marcello passagrilli

imexmi@tin.it

Who denies the existence of god is like if he denies a virtual evidence. The most effective theory of existence of god is based on the fact that his presence is manifested by the human thought since man started to reflect and to sinthetize his material experiences and to build up through millennia of history his social quality.Proceding on his long march of evolutive thought, man step by step creates the idea of god.The only thruth is that man create god, infact before man developed his consciousness we do not find any sign of god existence. Today our creature is well grown and people can appropriate of this immense abstract human knowledge.during past centuries has been kept away and used by rulers and priests to dominate people.Christ have been the most eclatant man that was able to appropriate most of human knowledge,thus most of part of what we call god.At beginning was Logos, says some vulgar prayer, actually it is all the contrary,Logos is at the end of material human experience.Nobody is able to dream what he never experienced, everyone proved it on our first sexual dreams, before our real experience, everything is confused.To rebuild the twins towers nowdays they will start with architects to make drawings and abstract calculations, so for us the beginning is the abstraction, spirit(in a broad sense).Originally man builded and made construction without any drawings or other abstract devices,architects and engineers came later.So at beginning was matter and experiences, after ideas and spirits.Nevertheless now ideas,abstractions,theories etc.
are very important, they exist, so in this way god exists.
Chinese people are very lucky to have an approach to reality without the deceiving mean of religion.They have all the right to preserve this attitude from the apparently harmless assault of western countries that with the horse of Troy of human rights and religions try to repeat with more sophisticate arms the appalling "opium war".

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lily

Tuesday, June 11th 2002 - 09:34:36 PM

lily

jameshmt@hotmail.com

i need news every day.
thank you.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Sheridan (Pete) Peterson

Wednesday, June 5th 2002 - 10:27:13 PM

Sheridan (Pete) Peterson

eagleeyepete_2@yahoo.com

Dear Dan Wang,

You don't remember me. I only spoke to you for a moment at the towering granite obelisk, The Monument of the Martyrs of the People.The press was on the plinth of this cenotaph and you were guarding them. I showed you my teacher's ID and so you allowed me to mingle with the press.

Tell me. Why is Yan Daobao never mentioned. Why is he not hailed as a hero? I was at Muxidi when he was shot down in a rain of machine gun fire are he stormed the barrades single handedly.

I wrote about the Muxidi bloodbath and it was published in a Japanese English-language publication, The Plaza by U-Kan Inc,Yoyogi 2-32-1, Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, 151, March-May 1990.
What has become of Chai Ling? I heard her address the crowd several time, but you were more indomitable, for you stayed and face the consequence.

What hope is left? I had no idea that Bush senior had doublecrossed the democratic movement until I read Chaos Under Heaven by Gordon Thomas. That came as quite a shock to me. To think the the U.S. government and its greedy corporate CEO's supported that band of blood thirsty fascists.
Good luck, Pete

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Yuan Richard

Wednesday, June 5th 2002 - 01:35:54 AM

Yuan Richard

yuanwei@xtra.co.nz

love china!!!!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of grunzi

Saturday, May 4th 2002 - 06:30:36 AM

grunzi

grunz@mail.tt

Interesting Site here,
will come back in some days

Grunzi

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of zhangyong

Thursday, May 2nd 2002 - 09:32:08 AM

zhangyong

linux009@sina.com.cn

Who can tell me the phone of BBC and VOA in Beijing ?
Email me please !
thanks a lot !

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of air

Sunday, April 28th 2002 - 04:48:58 AM

air

janet_wj@hotmail.com

i really want to read the book about the truth of 4th June,but i don't know how to get it.could you please give me some information?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Declan

Thursday, April 18th 2002 - 03:51:20 PM

Declan

declancarolan@lycos.com

Long Live Communist China!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Kellee

Saturday, April 13th 2002 - 01:22:59 PM

Kellee

kellee@african-gray-parrots.com

I like your site.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Monday, March 11th 2002 - 11:30:48 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

If the Bible story originated in the east world, just like Buddhism , I don't think Chinese Government will be afraid of it.
Christianism is not a sheer religion, to some extent, politicion can make use of it!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Yuan Sui Yang

Monday, February 25th 2002 - 04:59:23 PM

Yuan Sui Yang

ysyphjcn@yahoo.com.cn

I hope all chinese have the freedom of religion. God bless China.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Monday, February 25th 2002 - 12:47:37 PM

marcello passagrilli

imexmi@tin.it

For my own experience I found China the most livable place in the world.Police do not wear guns,you can walk in the streets of Beijing at any time without any problems.
At moment is still preserved from the bad habits of western countries although his economy is devoloping very fast and it is forecastable that in future will follow the same road.
I do not understand why people bother about the form of state in China that is nothing worst than any western country, while do not bother about Saudi Arabia, full supported by U.S.A. and of which we do not need any comment. I found that any one can practice relion, but fortunately chinese people for his past history is vaccinate about religion. Nevertheless in Beijing the council at own expenses restaured the beatyfull church of Saint Joseph and was given to catholic church.If you are catholic you can pray if really that is your aim, of course if you think to organize a sort of internal power that takes orders from the vatican, than forget about it.
after all is like if chinese gouvernment asks to the Pope to set up a communist party cellule in the Vatican City.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of claus

Tuesday, February 5th 2002 - 05:33:30 AM

claus

ralf@mail.tt

hi,

bin zufällig vorbeigekommen und habe gleich eine stunde bei euch zugebracht.

war echt interessant und ich komme bestimmt mal wieder !

tschau claus

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of J. Jack ARTZ

Sunday, February 3rd 2002 - 11:03:40 PM

J. Jack ARTZ

jjartz@earthlink.net

Everyone knows that democracy was on the lips of everyone who demonstrated in 1989. But I would like corroboration that the demand for democracy was accompanied with another demand -- "anti-corruption."

I heard that "democracy, anticorruption!" was a slogan of many of those demonstrations. Can anyone confirm this story for me?

Many assume that democracy is as much a part of the United States constitution as dictatorship (of the proletariat) is part of the Chinese constitution, or at least that which CCP doctrine creates. However, the word democracy is no where to be found in any fundamental U.S. document. (Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address is not a legal document, but expresses the essence of the U.S. as a "nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal" the last five words lifted from the Declaration of Independence. Also, "government of the people, by the people and for the people" but never the word "democracy") The word that does appear is "republican form of government" and "liberty." The Chinese who oppose the CCP have an obvious reason to create a "Goddess of Democracy" out of a "Statue of Liberty," but democracy is not the same as freedom.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Sunday, January 27th 2002 - 02:54:56 AM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

tell me the URL, let me try it!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of jiangzimi

Sunday, January 27th 2002 - 02:18:09 AM

jiangzimi

jiangzimi@hotmail.com

I want a book about June 4th truth,because I am in china ,and I can't download this book.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Friday, January 18th 2002 - 08:59:14 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

Falun Gong Fanatic Murders Uncle
(December 13, 2001 )
A Falun Gong practitioner in south China's Hainan Province was arrested by the local police Tuesday for killing his uncle with a kitchen knife.

The murderer told the police that he had planned to commit suicide, so that, together with his uncle, he could attain Nirvana, the sole aim of practicing Falungong.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Friday, January 18th 2002 - 08:55:00 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

Suicidal blaze, another crime of Falun Gong cult (1/30/2001)
Five Falun Gong practitioners, including a 12-year-old girl, soaked themselves in gasoline and set themselves on fire at around 2:40 PM on the eve of China's Lunar New Year. One died on the spot and the four others injured in the suicide attempts. The police on duty rushed to their rescue and immediately sent the injured to local hospital.


China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Friday, January 18th 2002 - 08:51:53 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

Let me give you an example!
Lightyear is the unit to measure distance.
But the leader of Falun Gong--Li Hongzhi said it was the unit to measure time.
Another example.
He said he asked the biggest god not to destroy the Earth.
So everyone could still go on living in this world.
This is ridiculous.
He's a lier. He's crazy!
How can you believe this guy?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Friday, January 18th 2002 - 08:45:28 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

Wake up! Falun Gong-bewitched mothers (02/3/2001)

"My child and I almost fell into the same dreadful suicide as Chen Siying and her mother Liu Chunling without the government's help," Yan Baoshuang, a former Falun Gong member, cried her heart out while watching 12-year-old Chen Siying's scorched face and hands on a TV program featuring seven Falun Gong practitioners' suicide attempt at Tian'anmen Square on January 23.

Liu Chunling, 36, a Falun Gong activist, set herself on fire and was burnt to death on the eve of the traditional Chinese Lunar New Year. Her daughter Liu Siying also suffered from the same ordeal. The girl, with severe burns to her face, head, hands and tracheas, is now hospitalized in Beijing.

Yan Baoshuang, an 36-year-old divorcee and the mother of a 12-year-old son, joined the evil Falun Gong cult in 1999. She tried to indoctrinate her son with the Falun Gong doctrine and even enticed him to go along with her to Zhongnanhai, the site of the central government, and Tian'anmen Square to "protect the heresy" that year.

"It's me who almost ruined my son's bright life," Yan said, recalling her past nightmare and burst into tears again.

On May 2 last year, Yan once again led her son to Tian'anmen Square. She instigated him to hold up a 13-meter-long banner with her to advocate Falun Gong, believing that they will consummate their practice.

Yan was caught by police that day and was given to one-year detention in a penitentiary for labor education and rehabilitation. Believing everything in the prison as evil, she was determined to fight against the education program.

"But penitentiary instructors' earnest education and warmhearted attitudes gradually changed my mind," said Yan. "Li Hongzhi is a super cheater, what he has preached was completely self-contradictory."

Having abandoned the Falun Gong, Yan began converting her son's mind through letters and phone calls. Now her son is making progress in his studies and has a better attitude towards life in general.

Apart from saving her own son, Yan also assisted the penitentiary staff in educating other Falun Gong believers with her own experiences. She use to spend six days to uncover the real evil nature of the Falun Gong cult to an female member, which helped the woman turn away from the cult and its beliefs.

Yan said children are too young to distinguish between evil and justice, it was their parents' fault to make them believe in these malicious heretical ideas.

"Falun Gong heathens, please break off the black magic and save your own children from its' soul-destroying evil fallacy," she called out with emotion.

Injured Liu Siying is confined to hospital bed now, not able to enjoy the warming weather of the coming spring. But Yan Baoshuang' s son has recovered and went back to living a normal healthy life like most Chinese children.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Li Lin

Friday, January 18th 2002 - 08:24:58 PM

Li Lin

3gpp@cnuninet.com

I don't think those who think China is a demon really know china. You have never been to China. The news what you get is from a society which has prejudice to China. Before you can confirm anything, you have preconceived that China is evil.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of God Bless DemoChina

Saturday, January 12th 2002 - 05:06:31 AM

God Bless DemoChina

Is the 'Polluted' Communist Party ANTICHRIST?

A Hong Kong Christian Lai Kwong Keung delivers Bible to Fuqing City. However, he was arrested by the ANTICHRIST, accused him violated 'Anti-evil cult ordinance' and may be sentenced to death.

Christian is not 'Falungong-like evil cult'. The government abused its authorities to kill the innocents. (e.g. 6-4 Massacre)

The 'Polluted' Communist Party is the real evil cult.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of God Bless DemoChina

Saturday, January 12th 2002 - 05:04:14 AM

God Bless DemoChina

One day, Jiang Zemin and Li Peng flying with a helicopter...

When they fly across a rural area, they have different suggestions.

'If we throw some food to the people, they'll be happy.' Jiang Zemin said.

'If we throw some money to the people, they'll be happier.' Li Peng said.

'IF I THROW ONE OF YOU, THE 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE WOULD BE THE HAPPIEST!' The pilot thinks.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of athome

Sunday, December 2nd 2001 - 05:14:18 PM

athome

goodmom2000@ivillage.com

Tiananmen square showed the world what the Chinese government is really like.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of WALL ADMIN

Friday, November 23rd 2001 - 12:55:42 PM

WALL ADMIN

Several entries deleted as off-topic. Remember, this is a place for discussion of Democracy for the People of the Chinese mainland. It is not a place to discuss other topics, as noteworthy as those sentiments might be...there are other forums for those opinions. The guidelines here are 1) Do not spread hate, or incite violence; and 2) Do not use profanity.

Thanks,

THE WALL ADMINISTRATION

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Cherrie Nelson

Friday, November 16th 2001 - 03:39:59 AM

Cherrie Nelson

cnelson12@aimultimedia.com

I kinda like it. Thanks!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Randall E Eagen

Wednesday, November 7th 2001 - 05:39:59 PM

Randall E Eagen

pmeagen@juno.com

Great site, keep up the good work

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Leanne Collins

Monday, November 5th 2001 - 07:16:58 PM

Leanne Collins

l.collins@btinternet.com

I like this site. Keep it up!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Leanne Collins

Sunday, November 4th 2001 - 02:22:04 PM

Leanne Collins

l.collins@btinternet.com

Great. Thanks!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Nick

Tuesday, October 30th 2001 - 03:43:48 PM

Nick

nickaus1@yahoo.com

Very good site,keep up the good work.Thank you.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lance

Friday, October 19th 2001 - 03:54:48 PM

lance

lance@lfaulk.com

Thanks

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Ilona

Friday, October 19th 2001 - 02:20:49 PM

Ilona

ilonas@home.com

Great. Thanks!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of CHINA FOREVER

Thursday, October 11th 2001 - 11:09:17 AM

CHINA FOREVER

china@forever.com

The action which chinese government do in 6-4 is a well dicided action. I strongly disagree and reject the action some anti-chinese power done, because what they want to do is only overthrowing great chinese government.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Sarah

Friday, September 21st 2001 - 11:26:01 AM

Sarah

Loversopus@aol.com

Can someone please help me? i need some info. on how China will reach a projected goal of eradicating hunger by the year 2015. Does anyone here know how to get this type of information? please write me back if you do. Thanks

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Wednesday, July 25th 2001 - 09:26:40 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

10 years in prison for Gao Zhan!

I am personally outraged!

Her young son will be a teenager when her prison term is over.

Let us hope there is room enough in the prisons for the CCP and overzealous Public Security goons when there is finally justice in China!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Gan Kuolin

Friday, July 20th 2001 - 09:23:21 AM

Gan Kuolin

cccc2600

I am deeply moved with your comments on faklun gong, however , I am not impressed with your exiled activists spreading rumors about China, if U.S. goes against China for "human rights" reasons, it is still the Chinese people that suffers, I believe we will have democracy one day, in the meantime, we should support our country and fight against all who interferes with our country.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Friday, July 13th 2001 - 10:26:53 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

Beijing has won the Olympics! Congratulations!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Tuesday, June 26th 2001 - 11:30:30 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: A while ago when we are discussing Chinese claims to the Nanshan Islands your position was that China would never use force against its neighbors to establish its claim. Follow this link for an answer to your question “Did you hear China will take over those islands by force?”:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20010625-504438.htm
The Chinese have recently begun military occupation of the islands and have started building military installations there.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Monday, June 25th 2001 - 10:56:46 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: Okay you apparently now agree with me that spying is common and even China does it. Your objection, if I’m not mistaken, is that the US use of planes to spy on China is too “overt” and therefore unethical compared to the Chinese use of ships to spy on the US. I believe that there is no ethical difference between US using spy planes 200 miles off the coast of China and China stationing similarly equipped ships 200 miles off the coast of the US.

I don’t agree with you that the Han Chinese who have moved to Tibet have not been “driven to there by government”. Though generally it is common today for Chinese to move from place to place to seek work, central government policies are a significant factor. The government is providing Han Chinese with economic incentives to move to less developed parts of China including Tibet and Xinjiang. Though these government policies have resulted in more investment in these poor parts of China it is no secret that the local people are not happy with the sudden influx of outsiders.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Friday, June 22nd 2001 - 11:03:23 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

To PW: I didn't deny China collected data from other countries. As you said, it's normal activity of all countries. But let turn back to the midair collision. Can you see any other country around the world overtly making spy acitivities as USA? In fact, it's not spy activities, it's just like one route work! After defined who should be responsible for the incident, your government still rewarded the spies! Although USA government threw out what "report" but you didnt' get any evidence, how can you say China stolen some "secrets" from USA and developed Hi-Teck Nuke bombs? How about Wenhe Lee case? After the incident, I was astonished that one of my collegues said the same thing as you. He even used Wenhe Lee case as the evidence! Regarding Stillman case, he is a nuke scientist and visited China for 9 times. He was not trialed as spy although he co-operated with Chinese scientists. He knew the nuke technology of China is highly-developed and based on the wisedom of Chinese ( from asia.cnn.com, I read the news about 3 weeks ago). I don't know why your government didn't permit him to publish the book about his experience in China.

I appreciate your honest. You didn't see the "cultural genocide" which the propaganda in the west is still insisting this false report. Then I have to tell you why Tibetans resent Han Chinese. As I told you before, Tibet was colonized by Britian at the end of Qing Dynasty and it was independent for some years. The serf heads, such as Dalai, tried hard to sustain the monastery system which can benefit them greatly. What Chairman Mao did wrong is that he destroyed the monastery system and resulted to Dalai's escapage to India. In Tibet, you can see how pious the Tibetans are to their Buddha. Unfortunately, the Dalai is the incarnation of Buddha, so they lost their spirit supporting and put the reasons to Han people. In Lahsa, maybe you saw too many Han Chinese because they can earn money at there. But you should distinguish the government's and civil behaviors. Those Han Chinese are not driven to there by government as the information you got at here. They are just for making money. At the same time, some of the Tibetans are moving out Tibet, in my small hometown, there has a small population of Tibetans now.

In fact,, the written history of China is too long, I didn't read and remember all of them. I have read much from the internet about Tibet because I doubt the history I learned in China. But I didn't find big differences until now. Unfortunately, the website about the history of Tibetans in Wisconsin (?) has been moved and I didn't finish it yet. But from what I read, the Tibetan is really one tribe of China.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Thursday, June 21st 2001 - 02:57:47 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: It is inconceivable to me that China would not make a concerted effort to gather military and economic information from the US, Japan, Korea and other countries it considers to be its military rivals and economic competitors. Particularly since it is well known that those countries spy on China. Are you suggesting that the CCP-lead government of China does not spy because it considers spying immoral?! This is the same government that arrests scholars, church-goers and meditators!

China does have sophisticated electronic information gathering ships. Here is a link that you might find informative: http://www.hazegray.org/worldnav/china/aux_othr.htm

No, when I visited Tibet I didn’t see any overt evidence of “cultural genocide”. The city of Lhasa looked to me about like it was a third to half-occupied by Han Chinese and the Tibetans I talked to made no secret of their resentment of the recent influx of Chinese. Except for the many wonderful attractions like the Potala Palace, Lhasa was similar to other Chinese cities – with lots of restaurants, shop houses and brothels disguised as barber shops.

And I don’t know anything about the Stillman case. What’s your opinion?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, June 20th 2001 - 12:14:04 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

Re PW: Yesterday I spent more than half hour to discuss those topics with you, however, today I didn't find my post. It's very weird.

Let's talk about those topics one by one:
First, as I told you before, you can find Vietnam is not closed to any important island, but without talking about with China, it will build government bodies on Nansha islands. Why can't China worry about this? Did you hear China will take over those islands by force? Maybe you missed my information intentiously, your cruisers are playing games in the "South China Sea", did you hear the protest of China government?

Second, which proofs can be used to show China is spying? Wen-He Lee? Can you image a "fish boat" has the ability to steer to USA's coast? Maybe you don't know your "scientific survey ships" are swimming around China's coast, except your spy planes. Ironically, one of your "scientific survey ship" was captured by North Korea in the cold war. The data collected by your spy ship opened to the world and your spies admitted their espionage. Maybe you know Stillman is sueing your government which prohibited him to publish his book about the nuclear research in China. Why?

Regarding Tibet, I was astonished that you visited there but you still knew nothing about China. Didn' t you visit the Potala Palace? Didn't you see the Chinese words written by the emperors hundreds years ago in Tibetan's saint palace? Of course, you must have not known why Chinese called China "Hua-Xia", Tibetan is one tribe of Hua; you must have not known Dalai sent some monks back to Tibet to set fire on themselves to show the word how the CCP government is damaging their "human rights". By the way, did you see the "cultural genocide" in Tibet? All the modern buildings are Chinese traditional genre or the western genres?
It's the sorrowful to see your prejudice was imporved.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Tuesday, June 19th 2001 - 10:37:33 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: As I told you, Vietnam is not closed to any important islands, but it will build government bodies on the Nanshan Islands. Even China admits those territories "disputable", how can Vietnam claim rights over those islands without co-operation with China? Why can't China government worry about the Vietnam report? You seems missed my point intentiously---your cruisers are playing the games in "South China Sea", did you hear the protest of China government?

I was astonished that after you visited the Tibet, you still have such an impression. Didn't you visit the Potala Palace to know the history of Tibet? Didn't you see the Chinese words in Tibetan's saint palace? Of course, you should not know why Chinese calling China "HuaXia" and in fact, Tibet is a tribe of "Hua". Even we needn't mention the history, can you see the Han people over-numbered the Tibetans? Although both Tibetans and Han people share the similar faces and skin color, you can see the differences too. And did you see the "cultural genocide" at there? All the buildings are Chinese traditional or western genres? In Tibet, if you know last year Dalai sent monks back to set fire on themselves to show the CCP government intruding Tibetans' "human rights"? It's really pitiful that you didn't learn anything from the visit but impressed your prejudice.

At last, you should know "fish boat" has not such ability to steer to your coast. In fact, your "scientific survey ships" always swim around China sea area. Maybe you know in the history, one of your "scientific survey ship" was caught by North Korea and the collected data were opened. After torturing, those spies admitted their espionage to the world too. Regarding spy acitivity, how about Wen-He Lee? Stillman is sueing your government because he was prohibited to publish his book about the nuclear research in China, why? All the lies you government used to criticize China's spying will be known by Americans. You said we can't use others' wrongdoings to justify your own wrongdoings, it's absolutely right, however, you are doing so to support your government. Only one word can be used in such a situation: brainwash!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Monday, June 18th 2001 - 03:55:48 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: My friend please re-read the People’s Daily article. Here is the exact quote:
“China is seriously concerned over the news reports that Vietnam shall set up governmental bodies on the Nansha Islands, noting that China has demanded Vietnam to clarify the reports.”

That is much different in meaning from your misinterpretation in which you apparently suggest that China is comfortable with Viet Nam setting up facilities in Nansha.

The EP-3 incident is old news so I don’t wish to re-hash it here. Maybe, as you say about spying “it's a moral thing”, but in fact China also spies on many other nations. China collects information covertly from the US by a variety of means including the use of “fishing boats” that patrol US coastal waters.

It an historical fact that American Indians were abused by White settlers. I’d like to think though that we have learned from history rather than using it to justify similar actions today.

By the way, I have visited Tibet and have seen with my own eyes some of the things that are happening there.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Monday, June 18th 2001 - 02:35:41 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: Don't mix everything together. First, you can look up the map of Vietnam in www.popnet.com, you can see it is far away from any important island; Second, you should read what Zhubangzao said carefully, "Vietnam will build governmental office on some islands". If you see China tried to recover the island through force as you said before? Your cruisers are playing the games in "South China Sea", did you hear the protest of China government as your spy plane landed on Hainan Island?


Regarding the air-collision, what you said can not hold water at all. You can't say it's impossible that a truck knocking on a small car because it runs slowly or clumsily. This point showed by many Americans, I believe some of them just want to know the truth, but others use it as an execuse. At the same time, long time ago, I told you one report about aTaiwan pilot who traced your spy plane. Your spy plane slowed down intentiously because fighters could not keep stable at low speed. As I said before, it's a moral thing. Your spy plane flew so closely to China territory, China has the right to send fighters to trace it and under some situation can drive your spy plane off.

Regarding Tibet, you showed your ignorance again. Tibet is one part of China hundreds years ago, not as USA just intruded America two hundreds years ago. From the history, Tibetan is one of the member of China but not the majority. However, the India natives on America had their own lands but robbed away by your ancestors. At the same time, you still believe what your government (exactly, not directly by your governmetn, but only some groups making up with some blind Americans) told you. Maybe you know the "three-gorge dam project", millions of people are moving, but can you find one case that the people moving into the barren Tibet not to the densely populated east China? After 1951, the population of Tibetans has increased more than 6 times. On the other hand, the average increasement of Chinese is only 3 times. Thinking about what USA government did: the population of India natives keeps at the same as 200 years ago! At last, I really hope you can visit Tibet. Let your own eyes and ears to know the barren areas.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Sunday, June 17th 2001 - 10:45:33 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: Beijing has in fact claimed sovereignty over the Spratlys (AKA Nansha). Look at this article from the Peoples Daily: http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200102/13/eng20010213_62272.html

The article quotes a spokesman for the Chinese foreign minister, Zhu Bangzao, saying “ China holds indisputable sovereignty over the Nansha Islands and the adjacent sea areas.”

I think you are misinterpreting the facts about the spy plane incident too. I cannot imagine how a slow moving propeller plane (the EP-3) could out-maneuver a jet aircraft (the Chinese fighter). Obviously the jet aircraft purposely flew too closely and caused the accident.

I guess I have to agree with your usage of the term “minorities” for Tibetans. Because of central government sponsored policies encouraging massive immigration of Han Chinese into Tibet, Tibetans are indeed becoming a minority in their own land.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Saturday, June 16th 2001 - 11:57:19 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@hotmail.com

To PW: I have pointed out many times about the mistakes in your posts, you seems never pay attention to them, what a pity. About Spratley island, you can see it clearly it is closed to which country from the map showed by your government. You can look it up in cnn's website. But in your post, or in your imagination, it is closed to Vietnam or Philipine. And from the map, the area is called "South China Sea" but China government admits it's one "disputable area" and didn't claim it's the China's territory. And from the map, you can't find the reason why the area whicn your spy plane knocked on China fighter intentiously is not of the "economic area". By the way, how can you think China will dominate this area through force? It clearly showed the American people's pathways to solve such problems---through force! You should remember China is one country with more than 5000 years' written history, our ancestros left us more wise thinkings than your ancestors. At the same time, I have to tell you if you want to talk about the topic of Tibet with the poor backgrounds from the propaganda of your government, it will prove how ignorant you are. Of course, wish you have known the minorities (not natives, do you know the differences between the two words?) are not living in the reseravtion areas as those poor natives in USA. To make the earth more peaceful, most of the kind Americans should awake from USA government's cheatings.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Thursday, June 14th 2001 - 03:39:58 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To Vagrant21:

I am glad to debate these issues with you. To clarify who I am, I was born and raised in the USA. I am not overseas Chinese. I think you are correct that the US government, like any government, including China’s, acts out of self-interest. I support the policies of my government that are consistent with the best interests of Americans. And I think the policies of the government of China should also best serve the interests of mainland Chinese. Regarding PNTR, I support my government’s decision to extend PNTR to China because free trade helps American businesses and the American economy. I believe it is also true that China will benefit greatly from free trade and PNTR. You are correct that the US president, Congress and others criticize China’s government because certain actions and policies by China are contrary to American interests. And I think that if the Chinese government changed those actions and policies the Chinese people would greatly benefit.

Regarding China’s 200 mile economic zone: Look at a map and see how close Viet Nam and the Philippines’ shores are to China’s 200 mile “exclusive” economic zone. If China’s objective is to dominate this region through force then she can rightly be called an “hegemonist” like other countries throughout history (including the US).

Regarding the Spratly Islands: All I know about this issue is that the territory in question is very close to many other countries (Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei) which also have made claims. I hope China and its neighbors can settle this peacefully. One reason I look forward to more democracy in China is because I believe democratic governments are less likely to wage war.

Regarding Tibet: No doubt that China is spending a lot of money on development there. No doubt the majority of the Tibetan people want more prosperity. Huge numbers of Chinese are moving into Tibet, displacing native Tibetans. They feel like they are being pushed around by the Chinese government. They need greater participation in decisions about own their future.

Yes the US has done terrible things – some in its distant past and some more recently. The US is not morally superior to other countries. The US rightly nags and criticizes China because a large and powerful dictatorship that suppresses religious and political expression is a threat to peace. Everyone benefits, Americans, Chinese and the rest of the world, when China becomes a more open, free and tolerant society.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lau san ching

Wednesday, June 13th 2001 - 08:27:31 PM

lau san ching

sanching@june4.org

Hi Dave, please go to meet my new version of www.june4.org

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Vagrant21

Wednesday, June 13th 2001 - 07:27:53 AM

Vagrant21

To PW:
Here I dont want to discuss with you which nation is superior to another.I dont oppose that u may have an opposite opinion.Maybe u have more reasons to argue that USA is superior to China,e.g. USA is the only superpower and hegemonist in the world,usa stationed its troops around the world,usa dare invade the air territory of any nation and spy,usa invaded and occupied a lot of countries in history,including its looting and killing thousands of handreds of chinese in beijing and tianjing with other 7 rogue countries in 1900.and the whole people except the aboriginal indians are much richer than chinese, and so on.,while china is a much poorer country,china was humiliated by many rogue countries and a lot of land was ceded and millions of chinese were slaughtered by bestial so-called civilized countries before 1949.
If u r an oversees-chinese, I feel ashamed for u,because u dont love or even are hostile to ur motherland;If u r not ,i hope u know the following facts:
U said u only criticise chinese government and u respect chinese people,I hope u said those words from ur heart,not just as hypocritic as ur government,which has made a lot of ridicule remarks.For example,when it criticises chinese government,it always says it is for the benefits of chinese people and not out of its own secret intentions.when usa decided to offer china PNTR,it cited those as the reasons that the chinese people needed it,HK needed it.Oh,my god!how kind-hearted of usa to chinese people!Should we elect an american as president of china?Unfortunately every chinese knows that the US government works for americans,not for chinese,only chinese government works for the benefits of our nation.So to almost every chinese,when u and ur government criticises chinese government,it is tantamout to being hostile to the whole chinese people,including taiwanese and tibetan chinese.
As is well-known that chinese first found NANSHA archipelagos and chinese used them as lodging place when they fished on south china sea for centuries.And before oil fields were found in south china sea in sixties and seventies of this century,no any southeast countries had ever claimed the archipelogo.but u ignored the facts and questioned if the archipelogo belongs to china,u took it as an arguement that the archipelogo is not included in the 200-mile exclusive zone of china.Yes,it is true that the isles are more than 200 miles away from the coast of china mainland,but do u think that so long as an archipelogo is not included in the 200-mile exclusive zone of a country,then the archipelogo does not belong to the country? So can I draw the conclusion that Hawaii and Guam island dont belong to usa,considering that both of them are not included in the 200-mile exclusive zone?and i'd like ur opinion on the archipelogo near Argentina(im sorry I dont know the name) which is included in the 200-mile exclusive zone of argentina but are occupied by remote UK.
Tibet has been part of china for centuries.The conspiracy of uk to split it out of china before 1949 now becomes an ace of usa to contain china.But what right has usa to criticise china's policy on tibet at all?In the 18th century, there were more than I million indians who are the real owner of america ,but at the end of 19th century ,there were only 240,000 left due to many times of massacres by white colonists.and the left indians were driven to several "preservation areas",where they are left isolated from the outside world,living in severe poverty.And this is just how the american protects the indian's culture,religion,linguistic and ethnic identity!On the contrary,under the leadership of CCP,Tibet is developing very quickly and has changed from servitude to modernization,though not so deeply as eastern china.Every year large amount of precious money is invested on this region in order to develop its economy and protect its exclusive culture and many lamaseries have been repaired and rebuilt.What's more,Tibetan chinese are permited to give birth to more than two children while Han chinese are allowd only one.from the latest census we can see that Tibetan have been increasing much more quickly than Han chinese.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of terrence

Friday, June 8th 2001 - 09:07:48 PM

terrence

blkdragn23@aol.com

my new site just launched--please come check it out! there's lots of stuff about china and tiananmen (including a link to this message board) that you might find interesting.

http://www.sonsofheaven.com

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of li

Wednesday, June 6th 2001 - 07:58:02 PM

li

great site,

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Joseph F. Borg

Tuesday, June 5th 2001 - 02:01:09 PM

Joseph F. Borg

jfb027@hotmail.com

I wish that more people find the courage to stand up against communism, just like that student who stood his ground infront of those tanks! He's our hero and idol.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 Generation

Tuesday, June 5th 2001 - 12:39:02 PM

June4 Generation

I was deeply touched while attending commemorating activities these days. So many brothers and sisters are standing side by side with us, fighting for our 89 dreams.
I no longer feel alone. I feel calm to read those misleading and insulting messages on line now, with the thought that many others are supportive to us.

No matter how many anniversary is going to be,
WE WILL ALWAYS REMEMBER!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Lucy Collins Blackwell

Tuesday, June 5th 2001 - 02:19:36 AM

Lucy Collins Blackwell

tibetsong@hotmail.com

To tell the truth, I think somebody else said it best...

"...we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth."
--President Abraham Lincoln, Address at Gettysburg


-- Peace to the martyrs of June 4 --

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Chet

Monday, June 4th 2001 - 01:04:06 PM

Chet

unclechetnelson@aol.com

One day the action taken by the communist government of China on June 4, 1989 against its own people will be disgraced just as the "cultural revolution" of Chairman Mao now is.

May China one day truly be a "people's republic". The flame of Lady Liberty still burns bright.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Monday, June 4th 2001 - 10:58:44 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: I don't know what Wang Youcai did, I can't tell you if he is right or not. I wish he is not the second Weijingsheng who is the shame of all Chinese! You can't understand why there are so many Chinese wish his/her motherland "overpass" America because you don't know what USA and other developed countries did to China more than 50 years ago. There are so many ways to keep "win-win" policy between different countries. Unfortunately, out of its own benefits, USA never pays attention to other countries, it need only "single win". Although I believe most of the Americans are kind enough to wish every people can live together peacefully, the USA government is in the hand of the selfish small groups. If you visit forum.cnd.org or the message board of CNN, you will find some arrogant Americans who just tried hard to abuse Chinese. Compared with them, I think you are really one of the nice Americans.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of pltsui

Monday, June 4th 2001 - 05:23:24 AM

pltsui

Every year on the same day, I kept on wandering around and had no idea what could I do next. I was so shock since the midnight of 12 years ago. That night changed a lot. All our hearts were broken. Innocent civilians sacrificed their lives and then classified as `rioters'. The country turned into an autocractic one and entered its darkest days.

As a foreign Chinese, I will burn the candle again to express my condolence on the death of those folks on that night.

Hope one day it can be recitified as a peaceful democractic movement in our Chinese history. It will, I'm sure.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Inez Wu

Sunday, June 3rd 2001 - 05:28:59 PM

Inez Wu

inez@uwalumni.com

I haven't and I won't forget what happened 12 years ago, and what happened since then. So many controversies, ideals, thoughts and even human lives stepped forward and lost. Empty speeches, actions, and denials plenty. Will these continue on or will our dream ever come true?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Ming

Sunday, June 3rd 2001 - 12:54:27 PM

Ming

lmchming@netvigator.com

I can`t sleep this night since 1989.
I`m not afraid, but I don`t want to sleep.


China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 Generation

Saturday, June 2nd 2001 - 05:50:25 PM

June4 Generation

If winter comes, will spring be far behind?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Esther

Saturday, June 2nd 2001 - 03:44:31 PM

Esther

mymiu@sinaman.com

For the democracy in Mainland China, guys, keep working hard!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of LESTER JOHN FARR

Saturday, June 2nd 2001 - 12:04:05 AM

LESTER JOHN FARR

I'M A SCIENTIST IN AUSTRALIA WORKING FOR A FAMOUS BIO-CHEMICAL COMPANY WHO HAVE JUST STARTED BUSINESS IN CHINA AND I HAVE SOMETIMES TO WORK IN CHINA. I THINK FOR FAIR & JUSTICE, LI PENG & HIS SENIOR OFFICIALS SHALL BE INQUIRED & PROSECUTED IN AN INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL FOR THE KILLINGS THEY COMMITTED IN TIANMEN & THEY SHALL HAVE A CHANCE TO ANSWER FOR.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Friday, June 1st 2001 - 11:25:15 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

Lwlbobby , I wonder what you think of this report from today’s the South China Morning Post: “Wang Youcai, serving 11 years in jail for founding the China Democracy Party, plans a hunger strike to commemorate the 12th anniversary of the massacre.”
By the way, thanks for saying I am not arrogant!
Vagrant21, why it is so important to you that China “surpass” America. Do you think America and China have the same kind of unfortunate relationship they had in the 1950’s and 1960’s when Mao talked about “surpassing America”? Is America now such a big threat to China? We are now living in a very different era. Countries now focus on their strengths and attempt to optimize their natural competitive advantages to achieve prosperity. Tiny Singapore’s very educated workforce produces many high tech products, resulting in a high standard of living for its people while maintaining good relations with its neighbors. China’s and America’s strengths are complimentary. Prosperity for both will come from expanding trade and developing technology. China should pursue these goals, not “surpassing America”.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of sean lovric

Friday, June 1st 2001 - 05:35:02 AM

sean lovric

slovric@ucalgary.ca

Sometimes I think of the photo of that young student who is standing in the way of a row of tanks, and it inspires me.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 Generation

Thursday, May 31st 2001 - 05:53:29 PM

June4 Generation

The pledge we write with our lives will someday clear up the sky of the People's Republic of China!

Wo3 Men2 Yong4 Sheng1 Ming4 Xie3 Cheng2 De Shi4 Yan2,
Bi4 Jiang1 Qing2 Lang3 Gong4 He2 Guo2 De Tian1 Kong1.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of B00

Thursday, May 31st 2001 - 11:26:24 AM

B00

khyuga99@yahoo.com

hey, nice anthem

i agree George W. Bush should step down.

hes so much against the world for his insistance and determination
to push the so called "missile defense system" agenda forward.

america and the world will be a much better place
without him.

as for chen hmm i'm not sure...

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Thursday, May 31st 2001 - 10:27:57 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

To Vagrant21:My friend, I found PW was not an arrogant American citizen, we can discuss some topics with him peacefully. As one Chinese loving my homeland deeply, I think we should face the reality. Although our government is leading Chinese on the right way, there still exists many problems. If the criticism is right, we can use it as one mirror to cure the scar on our face. Of course, if the criticism is wrong, we should tell the Americans the truth. Unfortunately, at here, I found the news media always distorted the truth about what happened in China. That's why I put so much time at here or other websites. At last, after I arrived in USA, I found the basic constructions in present China lags too much, it need at least 200 years to catch up with USA. We should not be misled by USA politicians to make China as the enemy by such ways as "China will be the superpower soon". I have found this is one of the tricks they are playing. Thinking about 70% peasant population of China, you will know it's impossible to be the enemy of USA in such a short time. Of course, from the history, even after China being one of the "superpower" of the world, if the Han people were in power, it would be more beneficial to the world peace.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Wednesday, May 30th 2001 - 03:12:57 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To Vagrant21: You are right, I am an American. But not an arrogant one. I believe anyone – including Americans - have the right to criticize China’s government – or any government. You shouldn’t be so sensitive. If you have read my posts you would know that I have not criticized Chinese people, only the government. I would be stupid to criticize “the whole Chinese people” because I respect them very much. In my opinion the Chinese people are smart, hard working and have a fascinating culture and history. Please don’t attribute opinions to me that I do not have. Also, it is not my opinion that “usa is always right and our china is always wrong.” Obviously there are many issues on which the China and US agree and some they don’t. The relationship will get better over time, I think. But the two countries will never be fully in agreement on all issues. I don’t understand why you are so sensitive to criticism. You will no doubt continue to hear more of it from the US. I read see many criticisms of America in the People’s Daily English edition.
I agree with you that China should be reunited. I also think that the people of China should be allowed to choose what type of government will preside over a reunited China. Perhaps the people will prefer Taiwan’s newly democratic government to the CCP to lead them into the 21st century.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of vagrant21

Wednesday, May 30th 2001 - 11:05:56 AM

vagrant21

vagrant21@163.net

To PW
Now i know that u r not a chinese but a real arragant american .
As an american, u 'd better mind ur own business,u have no right to criticise our government and the whole chinese people!
In ur opinion, usa is always right and our china is always wrong, so i dont think there is any foundation for us to discuss.
china will be reunited sooner or later,no matter how fierce
the hinderence is.usa and shenshuibian and dalailama are all not able to prevent china being reunited.
i never doubt that chinese are the most preeminent people of the world,though china lags behind western countries now.
china will catch up with and surpass usa in at most 30 years
,i believe.usa cant prevent that happening no matter how hardworking it is trying and will try to maintain its monopoly.
i am not a nationalist,but u should know that every chinese loves his motherland.


China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, May 30th 2001 - 10:25:43 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

June 4th will come soon. Wish every Chinese who tried hard to see a strong and peace-loving motherland memorize what happened in 1989 and think carefully which way should work for China. It's shameful to see some "new red-guards" just tried to "overthrow dictator". To PW: I made a mistake which misled you. The pictures were taken by China from your downed spy plane. From the remnants of paint and the broken anttena of the spy plane, it's very easy to judge what happened. You see, if what your pilot said is right, then the remnants of paint should be different. Your government and news media didn't reply to those pictures. About the massacre in Tibet, I have got some information. In 1951, the population of Tibetan is around 1 million (said by Dalai himself). Today the population of Tibetan is more than 6 million. The 1.2 million massacre as some Americans knew is overexagerrated too much. At the same time, Tibet is one of the most barren area on the earth, not resource-rich. That's why I insisted you guys to visit there by yourself. The China government invested too much money to there, not for "cultural genocide" or for the "rich-resources" as your government told you at all. China government has been devoting to improve the living level of all minorities and bring peace between different race. The 6 times of Tibetan population increasement is one of the proofs.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of TERENCE SEYMOUR

Tuesday, May 29th 2001 - 10:30:26 PM

TERENCE SEYMOUR

cleanup2000@elaunceston

We must never forget or allow the path the democracy to be blocked.

<< link removed - off topic >>

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Tung Chee Hwa

Saturday, May 26th 2001 - 09:19:53 AM

Tung Chee Hwa

ceo@ceo.gov.hk

Overthrow Dictator Jiang Zemin

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Friday, May 25th 2001 - 04:58:05 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

When the time comes for Taiwan and China to be reunited – if both parties then are still interested – the question becomes whether the presiding government ought to be the one in Beijing or Taipai. I think the Chinese people should be given the opportunity to decide whether they want to be lead by someone from the mainland communist leadership or by the government-in-exile in Taiwan, which already has had some experience with democracy and has a track record of respecting personal freedoms. To lwlbobby: true many “democratic” countries, including the US took advantage of China’s weakness. But keep in mind that the Chinese people have suffered more from Chinese government policies and practices throughout the ages. Regarding “aggressive” India there are many who said China as the aggressor when the two countries fought over a disputed border in 1962. More recently China has claimed a huge area of the South China Sea in conflict with other countries in the region. China’s 200 mile “economic zone” extends to the shores of Viet Nam, parts of the Philippines and Malaysia! I don’t understand your statement “Interestingly, you Americans can't see any pictures took from the spy plane which can prove your plane hit the China fighter. This can show one thing, you government has admitted it's your fault.” I don’t think the absence of pictures prove anything. The pilot and crew were probably too busy keeping their plane in the air and destroying intelligence equipment to have time to take pictures. The strongly opposing opinions Chinese and Americans have about the EP-3 incident reminds me of the OJ murder trial several years ago. Everyone then had an opinion about OJ’s guilt – and more often than not opinions correlated with race. Whites thought he was guilty and Blacks thought the police set OJ up. Similarly, with the EP-3 story emotionalism has triumphed over facts. To vagrant21: China will eventually benefit from its investments in resource-rich Tibet. I hope the majority of Tibetans benefit too.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of vagrant21

Friday, May 25th 2001 - 06:42:10 AM

vagrant21

vagrant21@163.net

To PW:
It is true that CCP will benefit from the 2008 Ganes,but obviously the common people will benefit much more from the Games.If Beijing hosts the Games,the economy will be boosted greatly,and Beijing will make efforts to improve the environment not only of Beijing but of the whole country,which is very important for the sustainable development of China.In addition,Beijing will open wider to the outside,as a result of which,democracy could be reminded of more and more people.So I strongly suport Beijing's bid for 2008 Games.
Ti is also true that Tibetan suffered a lot from CCP during the past several decades,but Han nationity suffered too.As is reconiged by all,CCP has learned a lot from his past.And now CCP is sparing no efforts to improve the living conditions of Tibetan.Though I don't surpport CCP for investing so much precious budget in barren Tibet plateau,I absolutly oppose any intention of splitting Tibet or any other region out of China.Our territory has shrunk a lot ,considering the already huge but still increasing population,we can not afford any excision of land now,can we? From my point of view, a real Chinese should not show any sympathy on Dalai Lama,which might give him a misleading signal of supporting his notorious independence campaign

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Friday, May 18th 2001 - 10:20:56 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

Re PW: Right, at least we are aware that every system exists many problems. You know, when USA was constructing its democratic system, the China was being abused by the foreign contries, including USA. After the CCP took power, it's just 50 years. Unfortunately, because the leaders lacked foresight and brought many heavy mistakes to Chinese. In fact, it's only 24 years to build the present China since late Premier Dengxiaoping took office. In the short time, we couldn't build a perfect system. Then if we can leap to a "democratic system"? This question I have answered you and other many times. That's impossible, there lack the basis. The present government has too many shortcomings, however, it's the best way to go step by step. At the same time, you should understand the "democratic system" is not the only one which can work better. You can't depend "democracy" to improve the understanding between people. There are too many democratic countries behave as rougue countries, except Israel which is killing Palestines, how about India? The "democratic" India is the most infamous in Asia, not only corruption, but aggressive. Then let me discuss China, if it's so "aggressive" as you can read from your newspaper? Taiwan is one part of China as USA government admitted. But at the same time, Bush said USA would help TW when China tried to recover the island. Of course, you even can read some papers about how to "contain" China using the "island chain" which covering Japan, Taiwan and your south-east Asia allies. And you can read some papers calling the island as your unsinkable cruiser in Asia. All these things are really helpful to build a democratic system in China? I told you before the news media at here distorted many things, it's good you recognized this. But you have been brainwashed by them, so you still believe the religious repression in Tibet. I have traced the paper in asia.cnn.com, in the column time asia, you can read one paper about the present Tibet. Interestingly, you Americans can't see any pictures took from the spy plane which can prove your plane hit the China fighter. This can show one thing, you government has admitted it's your fault. Without apologize is OK, ironically, today those spies will be awarded. It's dangerous to Americans that such a president maybe lead you to another shame!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of TSUIPL

Thursday, May 17th 2001 - 03:17:10 PM

TSUIPL

After two weeks, the mournful day is back again.

It is a sorrow that after 12th year, we are doing exactly the same as the previous year. Nothing changes. Dead was dead. It was still a `RIOT'.

Hope one day in my life, I could see the rectification of the June 4 incident. After all, we are Chinese and we all love our country , our people, our land....., but not the government which kills its fellows. There should have a clear line between right and wrong, black and white, ....

Salute to those had taken part in the movement! One day we will WIN.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Thursday, May 17th 2001 - 01:28:30 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

TO lwlbobby: In the case of Hanssen, he was formally charged and then tried in a public courtroom. In contrast the Chinese government has not stated specifically what crime Gaozhan committed beyond saying she was a spy. And I doubt that she has been given access to legal representation. If your point is that the justice system here in the US is imperfect then I agree. Racial profiling, police brutality, irrational sentencing rules – it happens daily in the US. But I would rather take my chances here if charged with a crime than in China. True, change in the world is inevitable. No better example of rapid change than China. Chinese are willingly embracing change. But Tibet is being forced to change culturally against its will by a central government sponsored population program and religious repression. I agree with your point that common cultural roots are an important basis for friendship between countries. But it is also very true that democratically run countries are inherently more peaceful and less threatening to their neighbors. I think we would have less to fear from China if the government allowed a free press and its citizens were well informed. Well-informed people know that war is not in their best interests. Democratic governments that are responsive to their citizens are less likely to initiate aggressive behavior. There are exceptions of course – Israel is a good example. Finally I don’t agree that the US government “controls” the media here. Though the media reports information that the government deliberately distorts, it also reports the truth when it becomes aware of it. Of course much of the print and broadcast media is rubbish. But there is enough diversity of reporting for a discerning person to know the truth.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Thursday, May 17th 2001 - 10:33:18 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@hotmail.com

Re PW: How about the spy Hassen? Do you know what secrets he sold to Russia except you know he is a spy? I saw two young guys (about 15~20) bundled by several policemen outside Wal-Mart one day, if they were convinced guilty without a trial? I admit maybe someday when I come back I will be treated as Gaozhan because the safety system in present China is terribly bad. As the Tibet, I didn't try hard to tell you the Chinese government never made mistakes or brought tragedy to Tibetans, I just tried hard to tell you should know the truth. At Lhasa, there are not only many Chinese, there are many western Christians carrying their "mission" too. About the cultural genocide, I knew some researchers in USA mentioned this many times, unfortunately, can you see any place around the world is not being changed everyday? Can you image a place staying in poverty and underdeveloped situation forever? In fact, the traditional Chinese culture is being changed, such as the building genre and clothes, but we never say that is "cultural genocide". About the religion, as I told you before, after dispersing the serf system, the CCP government has to pay much every year for thousands of monks and nuns. There is one news report in asia.cnn.com about one monk escaped to the "saint place" in India some days ago, when he was interviewed by time asia, he didn't mention such religion repression at all. In fact, he told the reporter he was raised by CCP government and never force him to learn everything he would not. Regarding why USA can co-exist with European countries, it's simple that you share the same kind of civilization. Why other "democratic countries" are your friends, it's simple too because you take benefits from them, such as Indonesia, India, Israel etc, those countries seems "democratic", they are entirely "rogue countries". The different civilization provided propelling force to human being, but at the same time, it's one of the origin that can bring human being to destroy each other. What we can do is to understand each other and prevent the human being tragedy happening some day. What made me worry deeply is the news media in USA, it almost never tell the truth about China, which has been misleading the common Americans. Wish the USA government won't control the news media. At the last, tell you one thing interesting: From the internet, I saw one message to ask about if there was traditional Tibet festival under the cruel control of CCP government by a western trying to visit Tibet in the future. One guy answered him he was enjoying the traditional Tibet festival, outside the window of the little "net bar" he was surfing the internet, the yaks were mowing.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Wednesday, May 16th 2001 - 02:43:06 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

In the US is a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. Evidently you (and the Chinese government) are willing to condemn Gaozhan until she can prove her innocence. No one involved in academic research including you should feel safe visiting China now. As for Tibet, you can’t dispute the fact that there is religious repression and cultural genocide there. If you go to Lhasa you see lots of Chinese, PLA and brothels. Many monasteries have been destroyed and never rebuilt. Finally, a democratic government in China would not be a “strong enemy” of developed countries. Most of America’s closest friends and allies have democratic governments.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, May 16th 2001 - 10:41:59 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

Re PW: Although part of your opinion is right, such as the CCP will be benefited if China get the Olympic games, unfortunately, more Chinese will be benefited. You should pay attention to the CCP has changed much and is changing, if it were the CCP 50 years ago, the 24 spies are staying in prisons until present but not living in one hotel. At the same time, the examples you listed showed you were brainwashed by western media such as more than one million Tibetans killed by CCP, there are many papers discussed the topic, no one can get such conclusion. About the "democracy leaders", some of them, such as Weijingsheng and Wangdan can't be derserved your respect and I didn't find such one yet. Regarding the "oversea scholars", such as Gaozhan, when she couldn't find a job in USA then went back and if you have no evidences that she was not a spy, you can't say the China government did wrong. At last, the old word no developed country in this world really expects a "democratic system" in China, which would raise a strong enemy to them.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Tuesday, May 15th 2001 - 12:43:45 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

If China hosts the 2000 Olympics many ordinary Chinese would benefit from the prestige and resulting economic growth. Unfortunately so would the CCP. That is why I oppose China hosting the Olympics. During its 50 years of rule, tens of millions of Chinese and over a million Tibetan people died because of the inhumane policies of the CCP leadership. It seems the CCP has learned from many of its mistakes. Today however it continues to deny many people their basic human rights. Granting China the Olympics would encourage China’s leadership to not change, to continue arresting aspiring democracy leaders, middle-aged meditators and visiting overseas scholars.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Vagrant21

Friday, May 11th 2001 - 10:25:37 AM

Vagrant21

vagrant21@163.net

To 64generation:
I am sorry if I am wrong for aledging that WD opposed Beijing's bid for 2008 Olympic Games,but I am convinced from FreeAsia that either WD or WJs opposed it . I forget the time when a report from FreeAsia said in a speach during his visit to Eureap WD or WJs opposed Beijing's bid for 2008 O.G..
Even if WD really surports Beijing's bid for 2008 O.G., u didn't negate that he and WJs surport Tibet's independence,which even the corrupt and inept Qing dynasty and dictator JiangJieshi insisted Tibet is inseparable part of China.U are a complete surporter of WD and WJs,so could u explain why democratists WD and WJs stand with dreaming Dalai Lama,who claims a 2.5-million-squaremeter "Grand Tibet" separated from China, to protest China's policy on Xizang???
Part of China's policies are certainly wrong,such as the surpression on the demenstation advocating democracy for China of motherland-loving college students on June 4,1989,China's crackdown on Democratic Party of China in 1997 and the indolence of crackdown on corruption and so on,and i strongly believe that CCP should apologize for its behavior in 1989 and compensate for those who were bereft of their beloved relatives with large amount of money,even money could not bring back their huge loss in 1989.But i also believe that NOT all policies of CCP are wrong.In my opinion,China's policy on Xizang is absolutely sagacious,which practises a "Not recognize,Not contact" policy on DalaiLama's so-called"Exiled Government of Tibet"in detestable India.We should admit that china made much progress in all fields,including fields of economy,democracy and education after 1989 and is making progress everyday,every chinese should recognize and surport the progress of china's government,especially its unswerving exertion to develop the economy and education.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Tuesday, May 8th 2001 - 10:56:11 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.comq

Tragedy of Wangdan and Weijingsheng. They lack strong personality and can't be the leaders of Chinese. When Wangdan stepped up the land of USA, the admitted he and other student leaders should take some responsibilities for the tragedy happened on June 4, 1989. At that time, I put my hope on him. Unfortunately days later, the hope died as one bubble. He supported the independence of Taiwan openly. All guys in Tsinghua or NCIC bbs criticized him, although he denied this later, everyone can see what he did and is doing, he mixed with those "Taiwan independent -supporters". After he became one member of "Station of Free Asia", he is almost against everything the CCP government is doing. Weijingsheng did the same work too. Not only supporting Taiwan and Tibet to be independent, but aslo asked the USA and other developed countries to sanction China. It's he said he was caring about the poor. There are too many examples what will bring by the seperation, such as Chechen of ex-Russia. All in all, there are too many evidences they work for someone, such as Wangdan could graduate from Harvard University in two years, during this time, he travelled around the world to give speach, unfortunately, he need some English-translator during those speach. It's the tragedy of them which displayed their personality weakness. I don't want to list out everything they did wrong one by one, there are two website: www.cnd.org/hxwz and www.creaders.net, anyone can find what they did.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 generation

Monday, May 7th 2001 - 06:25:32 PM

June4 generation

Re: Wangdan & 2008 Olympics

Excuse me. Where, when and how did you get the impression that WD is against the Olymipics? He did not say no to the 2008 Olympics in China. Visited the site www.epochtimes.com. There is an article about his opinion. It is an old one. You may need some time to locate it.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Vagrant21

Sunday, May 6th 2001 - 10:43:48 AM

Vagrant21

vagrant21@163.net

My opion on democracy
China need democracy naturally,but i prefer a slow democracy on the foundation of stability.
Here i don't want to justify the excuses made by our central goverment,but everyone should not ignore the following facts :
1. china is a agricultural country rather than an industralized one,where peasents consist of 70% of the total population.A big part of them are illiterate, an acute revolution or movement can lead to their unrestness .And they would vote for who should permit them however many children they would like to give birth to,which can give more burden on our land and hinder China's development.
2. China is a multinational country. As is well-known, several minorities want to split from the motherland,such as Tibet,the so-called Estern Turkistan and Inner Mongol.Unstability could realize their dreams. And I believe the CCP is the hardest nationalist.If Chen Shuibian or TungChehua should be elected president of united China,he might surrender to the western countries and contact with Dalai Lama and even recognize its independence.
3. China's tragic modern history should be learned from.If Mao hadn't risen up against Chiang ,just as what Chen Duxiu advocated, even though ChiangJieshi's china was greatly corrupt and not democratic at all ,a stable developing China in economical ,science, and cultural fieldes might lead to a booming superpower.
It is certainly that democracy is better than dictatorship and I don't oppose democracy at all,but I oppose violance,which caused many tragedies for our nation and people.If our government doesn't carry out democracy from the top willingly, we have to endure it . In my opinion,the most important for china is to develop the economy and provide good education for the whole people,following the models of South Korea and Taiwan region.Every Chinese should surport our CCP's policy on China's foreign affairs and economical plans, e.g. we should surport Beijing's bid for hosting the 2008 Olympic Games , we should denounce the US for its survaillance plane causing the death of our pilot Wang Wei and its spying on our militory secrets,and we should denounce Japan for glorifying its invasion and massercas in China .
I admire Wang Dan and Wei Jingsheng very much, but I don't understand why they stand with Dalai Lama against china's policy in Tibet,even ChiangJieshi didn't oppose it,if not surporting.And why they oppose Beijing's bid for 2008 Olympic Games.If they really advocate democracy for China,they'd better not ignore the feelings of the common people who dislike them little by little and not just follow the anti-china western governments.
Ind the end, I thank very much the founders of this website,and I hope to make friends with all people who surf on this website.Please contact me if you'd like to.My email address is vagrant21@163.net.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Friday, April 27th 2001 - 01:20:23 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

Since you have requested twice that I can't speak on behalf of others, I have to point out that's my right to draw conclusions through deduction from what I saw and heard. I never say I can be the only one to find the right way for China, in fact, such as you are looking for a better future for Chinese, so I am not angry at all although I think some of your words is over-sarcastic. But I am surprised you are still so naive that believe the democracy can solve the problems in present China. There are too many models of democracy around the world, some good some bad, why they are so different? You should think if there is such one environment suitable for it. On this aspect, I am doubting if you really touched with the poors (if you did, I am sorry). Did you see the maginificent Buddha temples were just closed to the shabby classrooms in the countryside? Without education, I can't believe those peasants can improve their quality. I came out from one of the poorest village in the south-west, I can't forget what happened and is happening at there. Good news is the living level has been improved greatly. Bad news is my country fellow addicted to gambling and superstition. Sometimes the opinion of yours seems reasonable, such as people need love and have the rights to any beliefs or religions because human being is different from animals. Unfortunately, anything should set one limit, without the limits, human being is no different from animals. When Weijingsheng arrived in USA, he said his rights to enjoy democracy were being damaged because he could not smoke in public area and could not drive over-speed. Everybody knows smoking is harmful not only to the smoker but to the by-standers and knows the over-speeding is dangerous not only to the driver himself but also to other drivers. Can you agree the opinions of Weijingsheng? On the other hand, people need something to put their spirits too, but can you say they can accomplish this through drugs or other dirty ways? You said you were not a fan of any GONGs, then do you know which damages the evil cults have brought to human being around the world, such as thousands of people burned in Africa? This is exactly because of human being is different from animals, there need some kind of ways to prevent human being stepping onto a wrong way. The all kinds of GONGs in China own too much evil aspects and they had hurted many Chinese, China government has to crack down some of them. Interestingly, the leaders of Zhonggong and Falungong were protected by USA, if you believe that's out of "religion freedom" then I have nothing to say, but I have to point out both of them broke the law in China, such as earn money through cheating and publish books without permission and paying the tax, Zhang even raped some women, so China has the right to extradite them. At the same time, Zhanghongbao broke the laws of USA too but released free, of course, followed by a letter to the human rights meeting to ask for criticizing China government. If he can write such an excellent letter, he needn't to earn money through cheating at all. Yes, because of the democracy, we can exchange our opinions freely at here, but you forget one more important thing, that's science and technology, without them, we can't do this through the internet. Why can't you understand Mr. Science is the most needed in present China but not the Mr. Democracy? At last, I am trying to show you the democarcy in USA is just at the primary stage, it's not the model to China. After the accident happened on April 1, I didn't read any one paper told the Americans what China government protested until the CNN interviewed the ambassador to Washington--Yangjiechi, all the papers told Americans the China government held their people as the USA government told them. You should know what can be brought by the distorted reporting, until yesterday, one investigation through internet showed 70% Americans regarded the Chinese in USA should be kept in concentration camp, can you image this kind of things just is happening in 21 century, in the most developed and democratic country? Even after the meeting on April 18, China showed groups of pictures which can prove the USA spy place knocked on the J-8 fighter, can you find any report at here? Ironically, at the same time, the pilot of the spy plane insisted his plane was in "auto-pilot" state and was flying directly! Because the USA government said so, it's the reason. Where is the "news freedom" in this country? It's the tragedy of human being because everyone are selfish only different in degree. I am always busy in my research, so I can't express myself clearly or in detailed sometime, welcome you point out something wrong.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4generation

Thursday, April 26th 2001 - 05:33:08 PM

June4generation

As I have requested before, please do not speak on behalf of others when you are not in the position to; please do not imagine that you are the only one person who understands China and understands it in the right way; and please do not speak for those who can’t, imagining that you interpret their feelings and emotions in the right way. I am disappointed not because I can’t “change my opinion” or I lost my friends in the movement as you have indicated, but because I still see narrow-minded people close their eyes and claim that China is a different country that doesn’t need democracy.

I am not a big fan of any GONGs. But I do think that people in any corner of the world are all human beings living in the same global village. Each individual has his/her right to choose different beliefs and religions. The major difference between human beings and animals is that we have human feelings and we deserve dignity and respect, in addition to food and clothes. Do you deny that fact that you need love apart from food and clothes? If you don’t, please don’t assume that those poor people don’t need human rights. I have met and stayed with many poor people in China. They are materially poor, but they still long for a rich spiritual life. They need a fair system to develop their ability, to maximize their potential, to voice their opinions and to compete on reasonable grounds. Living in poverty is not a sin. The sin is committed when people in power try to deprive the rights of the poor and tell the rest of the world that these people don’t need democracy. “Democracy” is not a big word. It is in every minute of life. We are enjoying democracy while we are writing in this wall. Right?

Please be more open-minded to different opinions and try to accept different approaches and methodologies in understanding our world. A person’s worldview is based on past life experience and educational background. You are well aware of the strong biased propaganda we have been exposed to during our growth, don’t you? I hope you are not hurt after reading this. If you do, I apologize.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of luyi

Thursday, April 26th 2001 - 10:22:06 AM

luyi

ruready@263.net

i want to see June 4th Tiananmen papers
please contact me
i will follow you

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, April 25th 2001 - 07:22:00 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

To PW: We have discussed about the democracy for a long time, it seems we can't agree on any aspects. Sure, there are many countries are enjoying the result of democracry acquired through "extreme ways". Unfortunately, it's the reason after comparing those countries that we have to say China can't get the democracy by such ways. First example, the strong giant ex-Soviet lives on debt; Second example, Milosevis took office through democratic election but he became "dictator" later when NATO attack Yugoslovia. At the same time, let's see what fruit the democracy brought to some of the democratic countries. First example is India, it's the most infamous country in Asia becasue of its corruption; the second is Taiwan, still full with "black money" and rogue members in its leader group. What the young student did wrong is they lack such examples in 1989. I understand why 64generation feeled so disappointed because she was sincere but she can't change her opinions, maybe she lost her friends in the tragegy. As I insisted, democracy need one environment that everyone can respect each other at least. But in present China I can't see any "democrats" or "dissidents" can give us one model, because they live too far away from the Chinese living at the lowest level--the peasants. Democracy can't bring food to them, of course, they can elect their direct leader now, that' s a progress. I agree the slow evolution and am against the "revolution", which is the tragedy of Chinese. In the history, almost every dynasty destoryed the former and then was destoryed by later, so China lack the environment to develop.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 generation

Wednesday, April 25th 2001 - 02:42:57 PM

June4 generation

If we want light, we must conquer darkness

I kept telling myself not to post any more messages here at all to endanger myself. I admire those who dare to post their true email address while speaking out the truth. 13 years has passed, I am still dreaming, dreaming of the date to go back to the square, and tell those drifting souls in the square that our dreams have come true.

I have no interest in politics, but I have always felt split to face my conscience. I wish I did not know anybody who were exiled and persecuted for their beliefs; I wish I did not know anybody who still live a miserable life after 13 years; I wish time could change me and made me a sophisticated person... Unfortunately, at this time of every year, I am still tortured with a guilty heart and broken dreams. Why people become so forgetable? How many roads must a man walk down, before we can call him a man?
I hate violence. And I am too weak for any violence. But I know: If we want light, we must conquer darkness.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of eewqdsa

Tuesday, April 24th 2001 - 09:29:52 PM

eewqdsa

eewqdsa@hotmail.com

support you!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 Generation

Tuesday, April 24th 2001 - 03:02:55 PM

June4 Generation

64generation

You did not meet one who joined democracy sincerely simply
because you were the the type of people who took it
seriously. I was serious in 1989; I am still serious now;
and I will always be serious in my belief of democracy for
China. Among many of my friends, I am not the only one who
cherish such a hope for future in China. Please don't
overgeneralize if you are not in the position. And please
don't speak for others. I don't have time to convince
anybody on anything. In this ero without heroes, I just
want to be an ordianry woman. However, I feel hurt to read
messages criticising 89 without grounds. History will
inform the future. I feel proud for the June4generation. At
least we live with enthusiasm, fighting for what we belive
in and what we strive for.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Tuesday, April 24th 2001 - 02:54:27 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: Every country that currently enjoys a measure
of democracy achieved it through “extreme ways” –
revolution and struggle. Do you think China will be an
exception?! True, some of the young and idealistic
students who you hold in such contempt fled to the West and
are living a good life. But so are the June 4th
murderers. Where is your outrage? And who are you to say
of the people in your hometown “none of them need the
democracy”? Maybe if they had a greater say in the
political process they wouldn’t be so economically
disadvantaged.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Monday, April 23rd 2001 - 05:23:34 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

I feel ashamed to those rush guys behaved as new red
guards in 1989. Democracy, how wonderful a word is,
isn't it? Thanks given to the "god" because the "father of
democracy" Weijingsheng went abroad some years
later, even so, after 1989, because of sanctions, the
two small silkwork factories in my hometown--one
small city--collapsed one by one, which led to about
2000 people lost their jobs, none of them need the
democracy, they just need work. Until today, my
hometown can't get any chance to recover. Come back
to the topic, how many of those guys on the square as
somebody said are serious? I didn't meet only one
joined the demostration sincerely. Putting the hope of
democracy on those guys is just one day-dream. It's a
tragedy for everyone lost their beloved, but if we can get
so-called democracy through the extreme ways, there
should be more people lose their beloved. It's the
responsibilites to every Chinese to rethink the June
4th,1989, not go in the old shoes.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of June4 generation

Sunday, April 22nd 2001 - 06:08:49 PM

June4 generation

64generation@hotmail.com

I feel ashamed for those who criticized the 89
participants, and labelled them as the "new read guards".
Before you do this again, please put your hands on your
hearts and ask yourself: Who suffered without food for 7
days and nights for the future of China in 1989??? Who lost
their lives for the faith of democracy for China in 1989???
Who have been living with split personality and broken
dreams since 1989!!! When you are enjoying every minute of
your life, when you make your criticism in front of your
computer, do you know how many families have b still
suffering for the lost of their beloved in 1989? Do you
know how difficult it is for those who can never never see
their beloved again? Do you know how many unbeaten souls
are still crying around Tiananmen Square?

The Ice Age is over, why is there still ice everywhere???!!!

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, April 18th 2001 - 10:16:47 PM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: You would like to be blind, that's OK! What
Zhanghongbao a garbage is, I know much more than I
know Lihongzhi, because he just cheat around my
hometown like Yanxin. If you don't know all kinds of
"gong", it's no matter, but never mix it with "Religion". Of
course, if every American can turn from Christian to
followers of all kinds of "gong", there should be real
peace in this world. Guess why?

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Wednesday, April 18th 2001 - 11:25:32 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

Today's South China Morning reports: "Two middle-aged women
who refused to denounce their faith in the outlawed Falun
Gong spiritual group have died in police custody, the sect
said yesterday...Falun Gong's headquarters in New York
claimed two latest deaths raised to 191 the number of
practitioners who have died in custody since the group was
banned in July 1999."
To lwlbobby regarding the just released leader of Zhonggong-
Zhanghongbao: don't believe everything the anti-religious
Chinese communist media says.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Wednesday, April 18th 2001 - 10:36:51 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

One news in yesterday's CNN, two nuns involved the
massacre in Rwanda, they set fire to burn thousands of
refugees. Another good news to PW: the leader of
Zhonggong-Zhanghongbao was released free
yesterday and he will apply for political asylum. Of
course, in China he was wanted because he raped
some women and cheated others for money. This time
under Little Bush's protection, one garbage can be a
USA citizen again. The CCP government should be
criticized because there are so many kinds of evil cults
means they didn't carry out their responsibility for
Chinese.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Wednesday, April 18th 2001 - 09:57:17 AM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

Today's South China Morning reports: "Two middle-aged women
who refused to denounce their faith in the outlawed Falun
Gong spiritual group have died in police custody, the sect
said yesterday...Falun Gong's headquarters in New York
claimed two latest deaths raised to 191 the number of
practitioners who have died in custody since the group was
banned in July 1999."

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Tuesday, April 17th 2001 - 10:27:21 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: Obviously, you didn't understand the meaning
of "very sorry" in Chinese, so I told you they attached the
English letter after the translated version. Shen Biao
Qian Yi means "very sorry" not "apology", although the
"Qian" sometimes means "apology". This is why the
China government insisted USA should apologize until
today. At the same time, you seems overtrust your news
media, but I can't see where is the "freedom of news" in
USA, not mention what Bush did is clearly not as one
president but got so much appraise. Can you read two
very interesting papers published in Taiwan---your ally?
One is about a pilot told news media that the spy plane
EP-3E always flys over their territory, when the Taiwan
sent fighters to track it, it slowed down intentiously
because fighters won't be stable at low speed and
coulnd't track it easily. Even at some time the spy plane
turns around suddenly and make those fighter pilots
almost collide with it. How about your news media?
Such as CNN, washingtonpost, time if they mentioned
this complaint? Who harrass whom? Not to speak why
your spy plane fly so close to other country, which
seems some one always use one telescope to watch
what is happening in your home outside of your
window, this is a moral question, let stop talking about
it. Another report is about one Taiwan spy trained by
USA, now living in Canada. When he was asked about
his viewpoints about the espionage of USA, he told
many interesting stories, at last he concluded" There is
only one rogue country on the earth, that's USA!". Can
you find such reports in your news media? At the same
time, some of the video clips you can watch in USA
about how Chinese pilots harrassing your spy pilot are
not related with Chinese at all, one showed your spy
plane tracked by a Mig-23, which should be the fighter
of Vietnam, how can you know your news media mixed
so many misleading signals to feed its readers? After I
compared your news with other news, I told you your
news media, in fact, the whole USA environment is over
hypocritical, it seems you never believe this. One point
formed in your mind, it's very difficult to change it. Why I
mention only those two sites in China because they
can express some different viewpoints and list all the
news around the world about something.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Monday, April 16th 2001 - 11:46:54 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To: lwlbobby
I checked out the sina.com Web site with the help of a
Chinese friend. The articles I read were very
opinionated. They sounded more like editorials written by
the Chinese government than news. News organizations with
names like “1000 Dragon News Network” and “Peoples Network”
were cited as the sources of information for the articles.
Maybe these are legitimate news organizations but I sure
wouldn’t want to bet my next paycheck. Why waste your time
on a Web site that is obviously heavily influenced by the
government when there are so many thousands of other
credible places from around the world to go for news and
information?
Also, regarding the letter from the American ambassador, my
Chinese friend told me that the translated version reported
in sina.com used the word “Shen Biao Qian Yi” which
means, “deeply express apology”. That is not at all like
the English version.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Monday, April 16th 2001 - 11:17:21 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

TO PW: Sure, the translation of the letter was correct, I
read it. At the same time, it attached the English copy.
Every Chinese knows English can read it directly. In
fact, the China government didn't say it's a "apology",
but "sorry" (Not Daoqian but Zhiqian). And almost all the
reports about the accident in USA can be read in the
two website (translated into Chinese), except some
news criticizing or abusing Chinese because the CCP
government seems tried hard to extinguish the angry in
the hearts of Chinese. But at the same time, I found the
USA news media didn't report some important points of
China government, as I pointed out before such as
what China protested. Although it reported some days
later, but it has maken some Americans feel very angry
because it seems the Chinese used the 24 crew as
hostage. In China, we should learn English from
primary school, so the population knowing English is
very big (of course, compared with the giant 1.3
billion,it's small). Learning other language is very
helpful to know the world. I have read many posts on
other websites, surprisedly, there are so many guys
having the same feeling, the USA news media is far
from justice, which it's very dangerous and some day if
there is one war, the news media should be one of the
origins.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Sunday, April 15th 2001 - 11:47:37 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: Unfortunately most Americans don’t read
Chinese. So tell us – did www.sina.com.cn or
www.sohu.com.cn report the correct translation of the
American letter of “apology”? According to my friends in
China the Chinese television did not. Also, tell me
whether these Web sites accurately reported what the
American crew said happened? I bet most people in China
did not hear both sides of the story – just the very
distorted and anti-American version the CCP wanted them to
hear.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of lwlbobby

Saturday, April 14th 2001 - 11:58:55 AM

lwlbobby

lwlbobby@sina.com

June 4th 1989 is one day should be remembered and rethought
by every Chinese, not for the hypocritical "democracy"
example established by USA, but for one way suitable for
China to improve herself. Those so-called "dissidents" just
humilify Chinese, never saying that they love this country.
They are against everything the CCP did and is doing,
unfortunately, most of those things are beneficial to Chinese
PEOPLE and not beneficial to USA, then they have to bark at
the present CCP government. This is why these "democratic"
people lost their base in the hearts of Chinese. Chinese need
reasonable young people, not the "red guards". The June 4th
will be rectified one day, but the deeds those "new red
guards" were not deserved appraise. After demise of ex-
soviet, Chinese has known what is more important. After many
wars ignited by USA, Chinese has known what can bring real
peace to this world. If any American wish the world living in
peace, he should discard the "world police" mask and see the
world with his own eyes, but not by the USA government.One
example, in all the reports about China in USA media, the
negative to positive is 30:1, and most of the negative
reprots were distorted or faked, can American know the real
China? On the other hand, if some American can read Chinese,
he can visit www.sina.com.cn or www.sohu.com.cn, then he
should know that the Chinese can know what happened in and
out of China, not as some Americans said the CCP government
prohibit Chinese to know the earth. Every people has the
national pride, that's OK, but not be so hypocritical when he
is saying what seems USA is the only model in the world. At
last, I have to point out the "democracy" in USA is not the
real "democracy" at all, if there is one 1.3 billion
population in USA, then you should know why I speak so.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PL TSUI

Saturday, April 14th 2001 - 11:12:52 AM

PL TSUI

June 4th 1989 was a day all Chinese should never forget.
Innocent, enthusiastic young people sacrifice their lifes
for their dream. The dream would never come true as they
would never come back. Some were on their fugitive life. A
legitimate Chinese could not go back to China. What a sad
and pity ironic thing would it be?
Hope ONE DAY the Tiananmen incident would be rectified by
Chinese government. All Chinese enjoy the freedom to in and
out their beloved country. The day is coming, it's not far
from us, one day .......

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of JIm P

Saturday, April 14th 2001 - 03:35:14 AM

JIm P

Amazing.
Once again I will pray that all China becomes free someday
soon, to live in the free world, where government does not
oppress the information flow of truth, and people can decide
for themselves what is true, and what is a lie from a
government dictated source.

To the corageous students who tried to stand up for freedom
of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of association, and
freedom to worship when and where they choose, I wish you
well. Of course, this web site cannot be seen in China,
because the government there wishes its people NOT to see or
think for themselves.

Long live the greatest nation on earth- America, and let it
shine as an example to the world for freedom for the future
for everyone.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of disgusted in DC

Friday, April 13th 2001 - 09:45:06 AM

disgusted in DC

The Chinese government has finally released the American
crew. According to them, the EP-3 DID NOT make a sudden
turn into the Chinese plane. It was on autopilot flying
straight and level. And the American pilot said he did ask
for permission to land but did not hear a response –
perhaps due to wind noise in the cockpit. But then again
the Chinese have said they never gave him permission to
land.
I am not surprised that the two stories are so different.
But would be surprised if the CCP ever allows the Chinese
people to hear the American version of events.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of dbaglot

Friday, April 6th 2001 - 11:09:32 AM

dbaglot

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the EP-3 “spying”
incident are the vast differences between Chinese and
American perceptions. The Americans tend to believe the
Chinese pilot was responsible for the accident because he
flew too close to the American plane. The Chinese seem to
believe that the American plane turned into the Chinese
plane and thus was at fault. The Chinese further believe
that the American president has been arrogant and
unsympathetic about the death of the Chinese pilot. It is
likely that these differences in perception can be
accounted for in part by feelings of national pride on both
sides. But perhaps restricted access to information in
China also plays a role. Here is a quote from a recent
South China Morning Post article about access to
information on the Internet in China:
http://china.scmp.com/today/ZZZ0D5KY4LC.html “Technology
unleashes revolution of words, ideas
As for information control, the Internet, rather than
encouraging the free spread of dissenting views, has
created an entire new group of self-censors. Web sites
carrying news have fallen over themselves in their
eagerness to emphasize how keen they are to abide by the
Government's rules if the alternative means being shut
down. Throw in the Government's blocking of the more
obvious sources of news from abroad, such as the Web sites
of the BBC, New York Times, Hong Kong and Taiwanese papers
and news magazines, and clearly the Government has the
upper hand in controlling what most Web surfers can see.
As a result, ever fewer observers believe that the Internet
alone can generate a powerful force calling for greater
freedom and democracy”.
The lesson to be learned from this is censorship is a big
problem. It prevents understanding between Chinese and
Americans at a time in China’s development when
understanding is most needed.

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Thursday, April 5th 2001 - 02:13:41 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

Chinese are skeptical of what they hear from Western news
reports (which is good) and trusting of news from Chinese
sources (which is disturbing).

China's Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PW

Thursday, April 5th 2001 - 01:57:38 PM

PW

fhv@altavista.net

To lwlbobby: China is a signatory to the UN Law of the
Sea Treaty, which limits the width of her territorial sea
to twelve nautical miles. Both China and the US
acknowledge that the collision took place 70 miles from
China’s coast. Lets hope the Chinese government releases
the plane crew soon so we can hear their version of
events. I think you would agree that we need to hear from
both sides before deciding who is guilty.




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