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Democracy Wall - China Mainland - June 4th Tiananmen Memorial

The Democracy Wall for China

Welcome to the WALL.

It is a Work-In-Progress, like much of Life. Created in 1999 to support the Petition at www.june4.org. Sadly, that site is gone, but The WALL lives on!

150 comments will appear on each "Brick". Please Post anything You like. This Wall is a place for many views, so it has been rated "R" - adult content

...BUT Please: No profanity, hate speech, or incitement to violence.

Again, Welcome. We hope You like the new look.

- The WALL

Review our Moderation Policy

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Sunday, October 9th 2011 - 07:49:30 AM

Sandy Bernabei


I am appalled at the racist and absolutely hobophobic tone of some of the posts on this facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Lincoln-Shitting/123450471002828

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Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Brother Barnabas

Sunday, September 10th 2006 - 03:45:05 PM

Brother Barnabas

Radio Free China has moved to WordPress
Hopefull this will be the last time. My last host wanted to close things down.
Here is the new url:


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Sue Cross

Monday, May 1st 2006 - 10:10:46 AM

Sue Cross

suecross at peoplepc.com

This is probably going to sound strange to alot of people, but I believe my son has been reicarnated to this life from Tienamen Square. As he was being born, I watched the massacre on TV. His birthdate is 6/4/89. As a little boy he often woke from sleep, screaming and crying "Mama" and speaking in a language I can only describe as oriental. I feel that I must share this just in case someone's Mom would be comforted to know he lives on. I would be interested in corresponding with anyone who can enlighten me on this really crazy sounding therory.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of rsf

Thursday, April 27th 2006 - 08:51:44 AM


rsf at rsf dot org

26 April 2006

Reporters Without Borders
Internet Freedom desk


Reporters Without Borders today said it considered Chinese blogger Hao Wu to be the victim of state abduction as more than two months have gone by since his arrest by the National Security Bureau in Beijing without his family getting any news about him. His lawyer has not been allowed to see him, but has been told his client is under house arrest.

"This case shows the Chinese security services operate without any control by the courts," Reporters Without Borders said. "Hao is the victim of an arbitrary system that interprets the law as it sees fit. We call on European and American diplomats to raised his case at their meetings with the Chinese authorities. We are curious know how they will justify the National Security Bureau's procedures."

In a message posted yesterday on her blog (http://spaces.msn.com/wuhaofamily/blog/), Hao's sister, Na Wu, said she had hired a lawyer who asked three questions during an interview with the National Security Bureau on 21 April: why his client is being held longer than allowed by the law, why the authorities refuse to inform his client's family, and why they refuse to let him see his client, which they should have done within the first 48 hours of his arrest.

The National Security Bureau replied that these were just "misunderstandings." Hao was no longer in detention, he was under "house arrest," the bureau said. At the same time, the case was "classified," which explained why no information had been given about the charges against Hao and where he was being held. Finally, neither Hao's family or his lawyer had been allowed to see him because they had not formally requested it, the bureau added.

Na said she has never been directly notified about her brother's arrest. The classified nature of the arrest is completely new and has never previously been mentioned by the bureau. Hao's lawyer also posts comments on his blog. He wrote that Hao should have been placed under "house arrest" no more than 30 days after his arrest. Calling the case "classified" was just a pretext for not disclosing the charges against Hao, he added.

Na finished her latest message with the follow comments: "If you have already visited my blog and are already aware of the efforts we have undertaken since his arrest, you will understand how unconvincing the National Security Bureau's explanations and excuses are." In a phone with Reporters Without Borders, she added: "The police have made it clear to me that they are aware of everything I have said and done."

Hao has a blog called Beijing or Bust in which he writes under the pseudonym of Beijing Loafer. He is also the North-East Asia editor of the website Global Voices, to which he contributes under name of Tian Yi. He was arrested on 22 February while preparing a report on China's underground protestant churches.

Global Voices has set up a Hao support site:


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David C. Manchester

Friday, January 6th 2006 - 01:04:10 PM

David C. Manchester

dredeyedick at gmail dot com


Slashdot today reports , "Microsoft has admitted to removing the blog of a Chinese journalist from MSN Spaces. The censored site has been re-hosted elsewhere after a short down-time, but is no longer accessible to the folks in China."

A link to ZDNET's coverage is included.





Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Wei Jingsheng

Wednesday, December 21st 2005 - 10:19:49 AM

Wei Jingsheng

This is a repost of "The Fifth Modernisation" by Wei Jingsheng.

by Wei Jingsheng

At the present, the media no longer play up the themes of dictatorship of the proletariat and class struggle. One reason is that this line of propaganda was used as sort of a magical potion by the Gang of Four, who have now been overthrown. Another reason, which is even more important, is that the people have had enough of all that and can no longer be deceived.

According to the laws of history, the new will not come about until the old is gone. Now that the old is gone, the people are rubbing their eyes in eager anticipation. Finally, with God's blessing, there is a new promise - the Four Modernizations. Chairman Hua, the wise leader, and Vice-Chairman Deng (who the people consider even wiser and greater) have defeated the Gang of Four. Now democracy and prosperity, so earnestly sought by those who shed their blood at Tian-an-men, seem soon to be realized.

After the arrest of the Gang of Four, people eagerly hoped that Vice-Chairman Deng, the so-called "restorer of capitalism," would once again appear as a great towering banner. Finally, Vice-Chairman Deng did return to his post on the Central Committee. The people were indeed excited, inspired, and ... [sic]. However, to the people's regret, the hated old political system has not changed, and even any talk about the much hoped for democracy and freedom is forbidden. People's living conditions remain the same and the "increased wages" are far behind the soaring commodity prices.

There has been some talk about the restoration of "capitalism" and the bonus system. After some investigation it was confirmed that the "invisible whip" for "the maximum exploitation of workers," which had been cursed by the Marxist ancestors, could not be used to fool the people anymore. Although without the leadership of the Great Helmsman, people can still be led by the "wise leader" to catch up with and surpass England, the United States, Japan, and Yugoslavia (?) or the advanced world level. Taking part in revolution is no longer "in vogue." Since entering a university will greatly enhance a person's prestige, people no longer need to hear the deafening noise of "class struggle" slogans. The Four Modernizations stand for everything that is good. Of course, it is still necessary to act according to the spirit of the Central Committee, as relayed to us by the April Fifth Academy. The beautiful vision can materialize only under unified leadership and guidance.

In ancient China, there were such maxims as "A cake in the picture can appease hunger" and "Watching the plums can quench the thirst." These witty and ironic remarks were quite popular in ancient times, but today, after a long and continuous development of history, people should never take such stupid remarks seriously. Yet some people not only believe in them but also carry them out in practice.

For several decades, Chinese people have closely followed the Great Helmsman. Communist ideology has provided "the cake in the picture," and the Great Leap Forward and Three Red Banners have served as "plums for quenching thirst." People tightening their belts and bravely forged ahead. Thirty years soon passed and they have learned a lesson from experience. For thirty years people were like "monkeys reaching out for the moon and feeling only emptiness." Therefore, when Vice-Chairman Deng put forward the slogan, "Be practical," people's enthusiasm was like surging waves. Time and again he was helped by the people to come to power. The people expected him to review the past and lead them to a realistic future with a "seeking truth from facts" approach.

However, some people have warned us: Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought is the foundations of all foundations; Chairman Mao was the Great Savior of the people; "Without the Communist Party, there would be no new China"; "Without Chairman Mao there would be no new China"; and anyone disagreeing with these will come to no good end. "Some people" even warned us: Chinese people need dictatorship. His superiority over feudal emperors precisely shows his greatness. Chinese people need no democracy unless it is "democracy under collective leadership" without which democracy is not worth a dime. It is up to you to believe or to doubt it, but the prisons (from which so many have recently been released) were convincing "proof."

However, someone has now given you a way out. Take the Four Modernizations as the key link and follow the principle of stability and unity and be brave (?) to serve the revolution (?) as an old ox does. Then you will find your way to paradise, namely the prosperity of communism and the Four Modernizations. Some well-intentioned people have given us this advice. "When you cannot think straight, try hard to study Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought!" The reason why you cannot think straight is your lack of understanding which reflects on the level of your ideological accomplishment. You should be obedient, otherwise the leadership of your unit cannot forgive you! And on and on.

I advise everyone not to believe such political swindlers anymore. Knowing that we are being deceived, we should implicitly believe in ourselves. We have been tempered in the Cultural Revolution and cannot be that ignorant now. Let us find out for ourselves what should be done.
Why Democracy?

This question has been discussed by many people for centuries. Others have conducted careful analyses and indicated on the Democracy Wall how much better is democracy than autocracy.

"People are the masters of history." Is this a fact or just empty talk? Well, it can be both. How can there be history without the people's strength and their participation in making it? No Great Helmsman or Wise leader can even exit, not to speak of creating history. From this, we can see that without new Chinese people, there would be no new China; but it is not true that "without Chairman Mao, there would be no new China." Vice-Chairman Deng is grateful to Chairman Mao for saving his life. This is understandable. But is it not reasonable too that he should be grateful to the "outcries" that pushed him to the seat of power? Would it be reasonable for him to respond to the outcries by saying, "You must not denigrate Chairman Mao, because he saved my life?" This makes "The people are the masters of history" an empty slogan. It is empty talk because people cannot master their own destiny according to the majority will; because their achievements have been credited to other people's accounts; and because their rights have been used to make somebody's royal crown. What kind of master is this? It may be more correct to call them slaves. In our history books the people are the masters who create everything, but in real life they are lackeys, always standing at attention and waiting to be "led" by leaders who swell like dough under the effect of yeast.

People should have democracy. When they ask for democracy, they are only demanding what is rightfully theirs. Anyone refusing to give it to them is a shameless bandit no better than a capitalist who robs workers of their money earned with their sweat and blood. Do the people have democracy now? No. Do they want to be masters of their own destiny? Definitely yes. This was the reason for the Communist Party's victory over Kuomintang. But what then happened to the promise of democracy? The slogan "people's democratic dictatorship" was replaced by the dictatorship of the proletariat." Even the "democracy" enjoyed by the infinitesimal portion - one among tens of millions - was abolished and replaced by the autocracy of the "Great Leader." Thus, Peng Dehuai was overthrown because, instead of following the Great Leader's instruction, he had the audacity to show his temper in the Party. Then a new promise was held out: Because the leader is great, implicit faith in such a leaders, rather than democracy, will bring more happiness to the people. People have believed in this promise, half reluctantly and half willingly, until today. But are they any happier? Are they richer or more prosperous? Unconcealable facts show that they are poorer, more miserable, and more backward. Why? This is the first question to be considered. And what to do now? This is the second question.

There is no need now to determine the ratio of Mao Zedong's merits and shortcomings. He first spoke about this as a self-defense. People should now think for a while and see if, without Mao Zedong's autocracy, China could be in its present backward state. Are Chinese people stupid, or lazy, or unwilling to enjoy wealth? Are they expecting too much? Quite the opposite. Then why? The answer is quite obvious. Chinese people should not have taken this road. Then why did they take it? Only because they were led by that self-exalting autocrat. If they did not take this road, he would exercise dictatorship over them. The people could see no other road and therefore had no choice. Is this not deception? Can there be any merit in deception?

What road is this? It is called the "socialist road." According to the definition of the Marxist ancestors, socialism means that the people, or the proletariat, are their own masters. Let me ask the Chinese workers and peasants: With the meager wages you get every month, whose master and what kind of master can you be? Sad to relate, you are "mastered" by somebody else when in the matter of matrimony. Socialism guarantees the producers' rights to the surplus production from their labor over what is needed as a service to the society. But this service is limitless. So are you not getting only that miserable little wage "necessary for maintaining the labor force for production?" Socialism guarantees many rights, such as the right of a citizen to receive educations, to use this ability to the best advantage, and so forth. But none of these rights can be seen in our daily life. What we can see is only "the dictatorship of the proletariat" and "a variation of Russian autocracy" - Chinese socialist autocracy. Is this kind of socialist road what people want? Can it be claimed that autocracy means the people's happiness. Is this the socialist road depicted by Marx and hoped for by the people? Obviously not. Then what is it? Funny as it may sound, it is like the feudal socialism mentioned in the "Manifesto," or a feudal monarchy disguised as socialism. We have heard that Soviet Russia has been promoted from social feudalism to social imperialism. Must Chinese people take the same road? Some people have proposed that we should change everything to fascist autocracy under feudal socialism. To this I entirely agree, because the question of merits or shortcomings does not exist here.

Let me say a word about the "National Socialism" the real name of the notorious German fascism. These fascists, also under an autocrat tyrant, called on the people to tighten their belts and deceived the people by telling them that they belonged to a great nation. Their main purpose was to suppress the most rudimentary form of democracy, because they clearly knew that democracy was the most formidable and irresistible enemy. On this basis, Stalin and Hitler shook hands and signed the German-Soviet Pact whereby a socialist state and a National Socialist State toasted the partition of Poland while the peoples of both countries suffered enslavement and poverty? If we do not want democracy as our only choice or, in other words, if we want modernized economics, science, military science, and so forth, then there must be modernization of the people and of the social system.
The Fifth Modernization - What Kind of Democracy?

I would like to ask everyone: What do we want modernization for? After all, some men feel that the age of The Dream of the Red Chamber must have been perfectly all right, because men were free to read, write poetry, and fool around with women. One needed only to open his mouth and food would be provided, only raise an arm to be dressed. Well, today's privileged class get to see foreign movies and live like gods. Such a life-style is quite inaccessible to ordinary folk. What the people want are the happy days which they can truly enjoy and which are not worse than those enjoyed by foreigners. All want prosperity, the kind of prosperity which is universal and which can only result from increased social productive forces. This is obvious to everyone. However, there is still something overlooked by somebody. Can people enjoy good living when social productive forces have been increased? Now the questions of authority, of domination, of distribution, and of exploitation arise.

People have tightened their belts for decades since liberation. They have worked as hard as they could and actually produced much wealth. But where has all the wealth gone? Some say that it has gone to fatten some comparatively small autocratic regimes like Vietnam. Others say it has fattened those "new bourgeois elements" like Lin Biao and Jiang Qing. There are all correct. Anyway, it can never get into the hands of the laboring people. If the wealth was not directly squandered by the big and small "political swindlers" who held power, it was bestowed on them to those scoundrels like Vietnam and Albania who cherished the same ideal and followed the same path. Shortly before his death, Mao Zedong had trouble with his wife when she asked him for nine thousand yuan, but has anyone ever witnessed any qualm on his part when he simply threw away tens of billions of yuan earned with the people's sweat and blood? Yet, while people are building socialism by tightening their belts and begging in the streets, there are still some people going to Democracy Wall to flatter Mao Zedong. Since they have eyes, why can't they see all this misery? Have they deliberately closed their eyes? If they really could not see, I would ask them to go to Beijing Station, to Yongdingmen, or just into the streets instead of writing posters. There they can observe the foreign visitors and ask them if in foreign lands the desire for food is considered something rare. I think those who desire to have food are not, as a rule, willing to give away their snow-white rice to aid the "friends" in the Third World! But these people's opinion does not count. The sad thing is that in our People's Republic there are still some people who, after eating a full meal, have nothing to do except read books or write poems. They live like gods and hold dominant power. In such case, are not the people justified in seizing power from these overlords?

What is democracy? True democracy means the holding of power by the laboring masses. Are laborers unqualified to hold power? Yugoslavia has taken this road and proved to us that even without dictatorial rulers, big or small, the people can work even better.

What is true democracy? It means the right of the people to choose their own representatives to work according to their will and in their interests. Only this can be called democracy. Furthermore, the people must also have the power to replace their representatives anytime so that these representatives cannot go on deceiving theirs in the name of the people. This is the kind of democracy enjoyed by people in European and American countries. In accordance with their will, they could run such people as Nixon, de Gaulle, and Tanaka out of office. They can reinstate them if they want, and nobody can interfere with their democratic rights. In China, however, if a person even comments on the already dead Great Helmsman Mao Zedong or the Great Man without peers in history, jail will be ready for him with open door and various unpredictable calamities may befall him. What a vast different will it be if we compare the socialist system of centralized democracy with the system of capitalist "exploiting class!"

Will there be great disorder across the land and defiance of laws human and divine once people enjoy democracy? Do not recent periodicals show that just because of the absence of democracy, dictators big and small were defying laws human and divine? How to maintain democratic order is a domestic problem requiring solution by the people themselves, and there is no need for the privileged overlords to worry about it. However, what they are worrying about is not the people's democracy but the difficulty of finding an excuse for destroying the people's democratic rights. Domestic problems cannot be solved all at once. Their solution takes time, during which mistakes and defects will be unavoidable. However, all these consequences, which concern us alone, should be far better than oppressions from the overlords which leave us no way to appeal for justice. Those who worry about the defiance of human and divine laws as a result of democracy are like those who had the same worry when the emperor was dethroned in the 1911 revolution. They are reconciled to this line of reasoning: Be at ease and submit to oppression. Without oppression, the roof of your house will fly sky high!

Let me respectfully remind these gentlemen: We want to be masters of our own destiny. We need no gods or emperors. We do not believe in the existence of any savior. We want to be masters of the world and not instruments used by autocrats to carry out their wild ambitions. We want a modern lifestyle and democracy for the people. Freedom and happiness are our sole objectives in accomplishing modernization. Without this fifth modernization all others are merely another promise.

Let me call on our comrades: Rally under the banner of democracy and do not trust the autocrats' talk about "stability and unity." Fascist totalitarianism can only bring us disaster. l have no more illusion. Democracy is our only hope. Abandon our democratic rights and we will be shackled once again. Let us believe in our own strength! Human history was created by us. Let all self-styled leaders and teachers go. They have for decades cheated the people of their most valuable possession. I firmly believe that production will be faster under the people's own management. Because the laborers will produce for their own benefit, their living conditions will be better. Society will thus be more rational, because under democracy all social authority is exercised by the people with a view to improving their livelihood.

I can never believe that the people can have anything from a savior without their own efforts. I also refuse to believe that China will abandon its goal because of difficulties. As long as people can clearly identify their goal and the obstacles on the way, they can surely trample on that mantis which bars the way.
March Toward Modernization - Practice Democracy

To accomplish modernization, Chinese people could first practice democracy and modernize China's social system. Democracy is by no means the result of social development as claimed by Lenin. Aside from being the inevitable outcome of the development of productive forces and the relations of production up to a certain stage, it is also the conditions for the existence of productive forces and the relations of production, not only up to that certain stage but also at much higher stages of development. Without this condition, the society will become stagnant and economic growth will encounter insurmountable obstacles. Therefore, judging from past history, a democratic social system is the major premise or the prerequisite for all developments - or modernizations. Without this major premise or prerequisite, it would be impossible not only to continue further development but also to preserve the fruits of the present stage of development. The experiences of our great motherland over the past thirty years have provided the best evidence.

Why must human history take the road toward prosperity and modernization? The reason is that people need prosperity so that real goods are available, and so that there is a full opportunity to pursue their first goal of happiness, namely freedom. Democracy means the maximum attainable freedom so far known by human beings. It is quite obvious that democracy has become the goal in contemporary human struggles.

Why are all reactionaries in contemporary history united under a common banner against democracy? the answer is that democracy provides everything for their enemy - the masses of people - but nothing for them - the oppressors - to oppose the people with. The biggest reactionary is always the biggest opponent of democracy. As clearly shown in the history of German, the Soviet Union and "New China" the strongest opponent of democracy has been the biggest and most dangerous enemy of social peace and prosperity. From the history of these countries, we can also clearly see that the spearheads of all struggles by people for happiness and by societies for prosperity were directed against the enemies of democracy - the autocratic fascists. From the history of the same countries again, we can see that victory for democracy has always brought along with it the most favorable conditions and the greatest speed for social development. On this point, American history has supplied the most forceful evidence.

All struggles involving the people's pursuit of happiness and prosperity are based on the quest for democracy. Therefore, the result of all struggles involving the people's resistance to oppression and exploitation are determined by their success or failure in obtaining democracy. So let us dedicate all our strength to the struggle for democracy! People can get all they want only through democratic channels. They cannot get anything by undemocratic or illusory means, because all forms of autocracy and autocratic totalitarianism are the most open and dangerous enemies of the people.

Would the enemies be willing to let us practice democracy? Certainly not. They will stop at nothing to hinder the progress of democracy, to deceive and hoodwink the people. The most effective method they, like all autocratic fascists, can count on is to tell the people that their present conditions are practically the best in the world. Has democracy really reached the stage it naturally should? Not at all! Any minor victory for democracy has been paid for at a high price, and democracy can be truly learned at the cost of bloodshed and other sacrifices. The enemies of democracy have always deceived the people by saying that democracy, even though achieved, will inevitably perish; so why should any energy be expended in striving for it?

However, let us look at the real history and not the history written by the hired scholars of the "socialist government." Every minute portion of democracy of real value was stained with the blood of martyrs and tyrants, and every step forward was met with strong attacks from the reactionary forces. Democracy has been able to surmount all these obstacles because it is highly valued and eagerly sought by the people. Therefore, this torrent is irresistible. Chinese people have never feared anything. As long as the people have a clear orientation, the forces of tyranny are no longer undefeatable.

Is the struggle for democracy what the Chinese people really want? The Cultural Revolution was the first occasion for them to demonstrate their strength, and all reactionary forces trembled before them. Because the people had then no clear orientation and the democratic forces did not play the main role in the struggle, the majority of them were brought over by the autocratic tyrant, led astray, divided, slandered, and finally violently suppressed. Thus these forces came to an end. The people then had a blind faith in their leaders who were autocrats and careerists; therefore, they became a tool and a sacrificial lamb for the tyrants or potential tyrants.

Today, twelve years later, the people have finally learned where their goal lies. They have a clear orientation, and they have a real leader. This leader is the democratic banner, which is now taken on a new significance. Xidan Democracy Wall has become the first battlefield in the people's fight against reactionaries. The struggle will certainly be victorious, though there will still be bloodshed and suffering. Liberation (about which there has been so much talk) will surely be attained. However much we may be covertly plotted against, the democratic banner cannot be obscured by the miasmal mists. Let us unite under this great and real banner and march toward modernization for the sake of the people's peace, happiness, rights and freedom!

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of dcm

Saturday, December 10th 2005 - 11:56:19 AM


Find this at http://glutter.typepad.com/glutter/2005/12/news_chinese_vi.html

News: Chinese Village Surrounded After Shootings
BEIJING - Authorities have surrounded and sealed off a village in southern China where police fatally shot protesters in a dispute over land use this week, villagers said Friday.

Thousands of people took part in Tuesday's demonstration in Dongzhou, a village in Guangdong province, international rights groups said. They were anger over plans to construct a wind power plant on local land.

Police fired into the crowd, killing at least two people, the reports said. Villagers have put the number as high as 10.

State media have made no mention of the violence and both provincial and local governments have repeatedly refused to comment. This is typical in China, where the ruling Communist Party controls the media....

Rural protests have multiplied in recent months as anger comes to a head over corruption, land seizures and a yawning wealth gap that experts say now threatens social stability. The government says about 70,000 such conflicts occurred last year, although many more are believed to go unreported.

The clashes have also become increasingly violent, with injuries sustained on both sides and huge amounts of damage done to property as protesters vent their frustration in face of indifferent or bullying authorities.

"These reports of protesters being shot dead are chilling," Catherine Baber, deputy Asia director at Amnesty International, said in a statement Thursday. "The increasing number of such disputes over land use across rural China, and the use of force to resolve them, suggest an urgent need for the Chinese authorities to focus on developing effective channels for dispute resolution." Full Article

Saturday, December 10, 2005

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Something happen

Tuesday, November 15th 2005 - 04:29:26 AM

Something happen


Chinese will get on a risky way on the road to democracy before they are know about democracy ifself. samething is just happenning to the Japanese society right now.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David

Thursday, September 8th 2005 - 02:00:15 PM



Here is the full text of the item I just found at the Telegraph:


Yahoo 'helps China track down and jail dissident' By Richard Spencer, China Correspondent (Filed: 08/09/2005)

Yahoo, the American internet firm, was accused yesterday of helping China's state security police track down and jail a dissident.

Reporters Without Borders (RWB), a media pressure group, said it had learned that Yahoo was approached over the case of Shi Tao, a Chinese journalist.

Mr Shi, 37, had posted on the internet a copy of an internal Chinese government document banning media comment on the 15th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre last year.

Yahoo Hong Kong provided the investigators with information which enabled them to track down Mr Shi's email and internet details, according to RWB.

He was jailed for 10 years in April for "leaking state secrets", a charge often used to suggest that dissidents, human rights activists, and even lawyers who make contact with overseas organisations, are spies.

Mr Shi is one of almost 40 journalists and so-called cyber dissidents in Chinese jails. Several, like him, took to using the internet as a medium after leaving or being sacked from state media. He previously worked for Contemporary Business News.

Despite claims by Tony Blair of a "sea change" in attitudes towards democracy and human rights, China has recently cracked down on dissidents and journalists.

Among others held are Ching Cheong, a British passport-holder from Hong Kong who was a correspondent for the Singapore Straits Times, and Zhao Yan, a researcher for the New York Times. Mr Ching has been accused of selling state secrets to Taiwan, though supporters say his offence was to try to publish interviews given by Zhao Ziyang, the Chinese leader purged for being too lenient on the Tiananmen protesters.

Zhao Yan has been in jail without charge for almost a year, though his arrest is said to be connected to a New York Times story about the final retirement last year of former President Jiang Zemin.

Other internet firms have been criticised for co-operating with the Chinese government. Google and Microsoft have gone along with censorship, Google by omitting banned websites from its Chinese-language news site, Microsoft by incorporating "banned word filters" in its Chinese software.

But the handing over of confidential information in Hong Kong, which is not even with the jurisdiction of the Chinese legal system, has particularly worried RWB.

"It is one thing to turn a blind eye to the Chinese government's abuses and it is quite another thing to collaborate," it said.

Hong Kong has maintained the British justice system more or less intact, and a court order would be needed to force Yahoo to hand over the information.

China now has 100 million web users but it also employs a 40,000-strong internet police force as censors, with some even used to "guide" conversation in chatrooms.

RWB gleaned the information about Mr Shi's conviction from a leaked copy of the verdict.

Yahoo Hong Kong made no comment yesterday but was "looking into it".

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL Admin

Saturday, August 20th 2005 - 05:39:18 PM

The WALL Admin



The newsfeed has been fixed, and the signing and signed pages brought up to date.

Look for a couple of new newsfeeds in the very near future.


The WALL Admin

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Lester John Farr

Saturday, May 7th 2005 - 10:40:45 AM

Lester John Farr


The Communist Chinese shall be prosecuted for the bloody crimes they commited to the Chinese people June 4th.
Lester John Farr

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Lester John Farr

Saturday, May 7th 2005 - 10:37:09 AM

Lester John Farr


I'm a scientist in Australia working for a famous bio-chemical company who has just started business in China. I have sometimes to work in China. I think for fairness and justice, Li Peng and his senior officials shall be inquired and prosecuted in an international tribunal for the killings they committed in Tiananmen and for which they shall have a chance to answer.

Lester John Farr
Regional General Manager, Tecra Int'l (pty) ltd

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of KC

Wednesday, April 27th 2005 - 09:46:40 AM



Nice to hear some indignation toward the evil regime in China. People have short memories and tend to be used by their government as the former Boxers. Some others have the old mentality of Mr.Q as Lu Xun mentioned in his writing. People are not waking up to who and what they are and who and what they want to be. They only exist for the moment, without passion, without purpose, without hope, without love... I wish there were more people like you and me. Best.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of KC

Wednesday, April 27th 2005 - 09:38:17 AM



If you have lived in the US for a long time without knowing what China is and that US is, you are wasting your life.
I have seen too many Boxer Rebellion type of people to know there is a deep cultural roots in China to ignor good and evil, right and wrong, truth or false to pursue some kind collective loyalty to China. I pity those who are without sense of justice and blindly follow their skin color, ancestors or their so called leaders - Communist overlord who not only owns your body, but owns your mind and spirit.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Friday, November 12th 2004 - 07:00:04 AM

marcello passagrilli


Dear Dredeyedick,
The point that you missed is the way to approach the argument " democracy" .
If you aspect from this word a sort of taumaturgic effect in terms of generic social and individual liberties , than you will be disilluded .
Democracy is not a moral state of people consciousness , it is only the overstructure of the result of an high economical development. Democracy is an unavoidable conseguence of a " pure " model of an even (smooth) economic development , it is her most suitable political folder. By no mean it is a conscious people achievement.
Of course at certain level is enjoyable also by the people , especially if you compare it with the people's conditions in a totalitarian regime . But in an underdeveloped economy , democracy is a non sense , simply it is impossible to set it up , it would be a jacobin effort.
Of course I'm talking about the capitalistic sistem . China is a capitalist country with a political foulder that is modifying itself, year after year , towards "democracy" .That process is unavoidable because chinese economy , while develops, needs major degrees of liberalization .
Consider also that we have to talk about concrete situations , not reality "in vitro" , so we have to face an unequal developing that brings many contraddictions, resistences ,setbacks , delaying , and unproper forms , on the road to democracy . In any case , if you do not belong to the ruling class even in a developed democracy you are condemmned to be without real liberties .
Using a famous phrase : Democracy is a wide fenced field where are leaving together free foxes with free chickens . So let us have a real scientific idea about democracy , leaving to unprepared people the current vulgar and moralistic definition of the word democracy .

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Joshua

Sunday, October 31st 2004 - 02:28:36 PM



Just wanted to invite you all to come and check out www.openforumpolitics.com Its a politcal site similiar to this one, except if any of you want to publish any political articles you can.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of observer

Tuesday, September 14th 2004 - 11:16:44 PM


From Epock Times at

By Zhao Zifa, The Epoch Times
Translated from the Chinese Edition
Aug 30, 2004

Police at the site of Ye Guozhu’s demolished home. Ye was helping to organize a rally on Tiananmen Square when he was arrested. Photo: Epoch Times
The applicant for a permit to hold a 10,000-person rally on Tiananmen Square was detained for 24 hours and then released. Zheng Mingfang sought to stage the rally on September 18th to appeal for citizen’s rights. Police also raided her home and arrested another rally organizer, Ye Guozhu. He was still under detention at the time of this report.

Zheng Mingfang, a resident of Ji County, Tianjin, was arrested on August 27 while accompanying her father to appeal to the central Chinese government. She was detained at the Fuyoujie Police Station in Beijing. At some point during the night, the police transferred her to Ji County Police Station to continue their interrogation. During her 24-hour detention she was not given any food or water.

About 30 people raided Zheng’s home on August 28 while she was in police custody. Two were in police uniforms. Zheng’s daughter Huang Shanshan, 17, was home alone at the time.

According to Zheng, after the police left, she found that the first floor phone cord was unplugged and the second floor phone cord was cut. All her computers were infected with viruses. Zheng suspects that the police also put listening devices in her home.

Ye Guozhu’s elderly parents are now homeless. (Epoch Times)

“I have prepared myself mentally to be detained,” Zheng said. “As long as I can still say a word, I will charge this scoundrel government and fight for human and citizens’ rights. I will appeal to the world on behalf of the Chinese people. I hope they will pay attention to China and to our human rights.”

Beijing police told Ye Guozhu, another rally organizer, that he had no right to apply for a permit for the Tiananmen rally because his status was “waiting to be arraigned.”

According to Ye’s son Ye Mingjun, 22, about 20 policemen from Dongcheng District Police Station came and took away Ye Guozhu. They did not give any specific reason except to “have a little chat and gather information.”

About three hours after Ye Guozhu was taken away, Ye Mingjun was notified that Ye Guozhu was officially arrested on “suspicion of disturbing social order.” The term of the detention was not announced.

Ye Mingjun said that they did not disturb any social order. He questioned whether it was related to their application for the rally.

In an earlier statement, Ye Guozhu said that their home was raided and demolished without any legal process or just compensation. He said that last year, the government used the excuse of rebuilding the city for the 2008 Olympic Games to drive the residents out of their area and paid very little money in compensation. The people sent by the government cursed, beat and threatened residents. Whoever refused to sign the agreement to move had their houses condemned and demolished.

Ye said that his 80-year-old parents were about to have breakfast when the police came to their house. Some of Ye’s furniture was damaged. Cash, precious jade vessels, jewels, stamp and ancient coin collections, and a set of antique hand-drawn books were lost.

Since Ye’s family was driven out of their home, they wander the streets. The police detained Ye Guozhu, his son Ye Mingjun, and brother Ye Guoqiang for 45 days for “disturbing social order.” Because the police did not officially arrest them, they were released but are considered “waiting to be arraigned.”

Ye Guozhu stated that all their appeals fell on deaf ears. Ye’s handicapped brother, Ye Guoqiang, tried to commit suicide in front of Tiananmen Square to express his frustration. Ye Guoqiang was then arrested by the police for his suicide attempt and was sentenced to a prison term.

Ye Guozhu and his son are now homeless.

On July 28, 2004, another active petitioner, Liu Anjun, was taken away from his home by the police for no stated reason. The police told his family they would notify the family within 24 hours of the reason for the arrest. The next day, the police told them that Liu was arrested for “gathering the public to cause disturbance.” Liu’s ex-wife Sun Cuihua said that the police kept on extending the detention period. At first it was three days, then seven days, 15 days and then 30 days. On August 9th, the police officially arrested him, but did not notify the family until August 20th.

About 100 people signed their names on the application for the rally on September 18.


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of dredeyedick

Tuesday, September 14th 2004 - 11:08:49 PM



>marcello passagrilli

>in a capitalistic economy as China it is,
> is the best political folder for the
>ruling class , but not for the entire
>population .

So, Marcello, it's free markets for the "ruling class" and... what else for everyone else? Slavery? Fear of a totalitarian (but "free") "Ruling Class" ?

Huh? Maybe I'm missing something.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Monday, September 13th 2004 - 10:01:08 AM

marcello passagrilli


Democracy is not a political choice , but is a necessary "political folder" that usually follows a developed economy . So you can not set up a inadeguate form until the course of economic development doesn't reach the top . When economy develops , needs a suitable social overstructure, because has to make easy the circulation of goods , the circulation of capitals and circulation of people .
In order to optimize such conditions , the establishment must become democratic , that is a condition "sine qua non " for optimize the sistem . So as China develops , will become necessarily democratic .
But Democracy in a capitalistic economy as China it is , is the best political folder for the ruling class , but not for the entire population .

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Dawn

Wednesday, September 1st 2004 - 11:46:57 PM


Chinese people deserve to live within a safely structured democratic government, no matter how fast this change is underway, we still should not take it at chance. Democracy is not a safely guarantteed gift of the Comunist Party of China for the Chinese people and it is currenly an orphane unless nurtured with care by the Chinese people themselves.
Democracy must not be left on change instead we must change the present system into democracy. I think, just by the mere agreement to this view is drawing us a step closer to democracy in China...

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Dawn

Wednesday, September 1st 2004 - 11:44:49 PM


Chinese people deserve to live within a safely strutured democratic government, no matter how fast this change is underway, we still should not take it at chance. Democracy is not a safely guarantteed gift of the Comunist Party of China for the Chinese people and it is a orphane unless nurtured with care.
Democracy must not be left on change but we must change the present system into democracy. I think, just by the mere agreement is launching us a step closer to democracy in China...

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Saturday, August 7th 2004 - 10:01:15 AM

marcello passagrilli


Since the early ages , the hierarchy was based on the skill of men that were able to solve the problems , no matter how this institution (hierarchy ) masked itself to appear as a sort of divine emanation.
During the course of history , the correspondence between the solution of problems and right to comand , has been mistified , and the comand has been taken by who was socially stronger .
But just to make an academic exercise , I think that the most titled political subject , having the right to express legitim power , should be , who allows the motor of economy to keep running . In other words,the people that with their labour produce all the social wealth , has the right to decide directly how this result of production must be used . That is the only real democracy .

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of acdevil

Tuesday, July 27th 2004 - 07:29:43 PM



the final rights and power belong to the people.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Amy Wang

Tuesday, June 8th 2004 - 08:24:16 AM

Amy Wang


People in China will know the truth.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Sunday, May 9th 2004 - 10:56:41 AM

marcello passagrilli


Basically "human rights" is an abstract category, if we are looking back to the history of human being , to the theoretical principles solemnly proclaimed and written in any "sacred" book, never corresponded a right application .

Slavery has been abolished during the eighteenth century , but in one country that was taken as an example of individual freedom , slavery lasted for another century , and to overcome it, it needed a civil war . The Vatican , today very militant on trying to abolish the death penalty , has been practicing it until the second half of 1800, and abolished it in 1970 (circa).

At each one the own blames , China has the own ones , as U.S.A.. Talking about human rights in this moment ,(see Iraq) it is better for all the institutional world to wash his mouth with muriatic acid .

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of bai

Wednesday, March 31st 2004 - 01:33:39 AM



I think I can access the website now, dated March 31, 2004, 17:26

What's in there supposed to be blocked from us (Chinese)?

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL Admin

Friday, March 26th 2004 - 06:13:23 PM

The WALL Admin

As U.S. Ambassador Richard Williamson prepares to introduce a resolution at the U.N. Human Rights Commission to censure the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) government for increasing "repression of its people using the Internet, democratic dialogue, religious expression," the CCP heedlessly continues its moves to suppress free expression on the internet.

This morning, March 26 2004, the CCP government started blocking access to typepad, a paid web log hosting service in San Mateo, California. The communist regime previously blocked access to blogspot, Blogger's free hosting site.

In solidarity with those both on the mainland and in Hong Kong, The WALL has turned black and will remain so for forty days - until World Press Freedom Day, May 3rd.


Yan Sham-Shackleton filed this report on Glutter, which has been added to The WALL's Menu of Links. (See also the Radio Free China newsfeed on this page).

According to Sham-Shackleton, "Last week saw two hosting services within China, blogbus and blogscn banned. After shutting down forums and message boards within the country, it’s now using blocking software to stop information from leaking into the county via personal sites, an increasingly vibrant China internet community, and a place where users are slipping in banned information. Some sites in the blogging community are turning black in protest of this event while others are reporting the incident."

Yan, do not despair. The WALL stands with You. You can blow out a candle, but You can't blow out a fire.


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Manchester

Wednesday, March 17th 2004 - 07:02:53 PM

David Manchester

This is from channelnewsasia.com.

US asks China to prove seriousness over human rights guarantees

WASHINGTON : The United States urged China to swiftly implement legal guarantees on human rights and private property adopted at the weekend to underline its seriousness on the reform front.

National People's Congress China's approved on Sunday long-awaited amendments to the state constitution on protecting human rights and private property, including a landmark provision that "the state respects and protects human rights."

It is widely seen as an admission that existing constitutional protections on human rights are far from adequate.

US State Department spokesman Adam Ereli:"having laws on the books is one thing, but taking action to enforce them in a consistent way is another thing."


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Manchester

Wednesday, March 17th 2004 - 04:33:09 PM

David Manchester


This is from Agence France Presse.

The full story is here.

"Time is GMT + 8 hours
Posted: 17 March 2004 1658 hrs

China tries church leaders for telling foreigners of Christian crackdown

BEIJING: China has tried three underground church leaders in secret for exposing a crackdown against Christians just days after it passed a constitutional amendment to protect human rights.

Liu Fenggang, Xu Yonghai and Zhang Shengqi were tried on Tuesday at the Intermediate Peoples Court of Hangzhou in eastern Zhejiang province, Xu's wife Li Shanna and New York-based Human Rights in China (HRIC) said.

Originally charged with "inciting the gathering of state secrets," the three Christians were brought to trial on amended charges of "providing intelligence to organizations outside of China."

The men had told overseas groups of the suppression of Christians in Hangzhou city, where more than a dozen churches in houses were destroyed and at least 300 Christians were arrested, with some physically abused.

The court has not announced a verdict but the men face imprisonment for 10 years to life, HRIC said.

Hangzhou court officials refused to comment.

"This involves state security. We cannot speak to the reporters about this,"court employee Xu Minghui told AFP.


The trio's arrest stemmed from a report Liu carried out on the suppression of Christians in Hangzhou's Xiaoshan district last July.

After traveling to Hangzhou to learn more, Liu, a Beijinger, released his report to organizations overseas.

Xu assisted him by printing the report and Zhang helped disseminate it through the Internet.

When Liu returned to Hangzhou in October to carry out further research, he was detained on October 13 by police.

Hangzhou police detained Xu and his wife Li on November 9, releasing Li six hours later.

On November 26 they arrested Zhang.

The trial comes just days after China's legislature approved a Communist Party decision to amend the state constitution to include mention about the protection of human rights for the first time.

China has called it a significant move, but Western countries have urged Beijing to implement its amendment, not just pass it."

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of DAVID KROUSE

Saturday, March 13th 2004 - 04:14:08 PM








Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Meng Yan

Monday, March 8th 2004 - 04:11:17 PM

Meng Yan


"Outsiders can look all they want, but they are still blind to what's really going on".

From Nest Egg
by Wang Zhecheng and Wen Xiaoyu

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Sunday, January 25th 2004 - 03:14:19 AM

marcello passagrilli


In order not to fall in an sterile minimalism , where the epyphenomena take place of the the main cause , it is better for all to consider the origin of political contrasts .
China is just now accomplishing the bourgeois revolution started in 1921 by Sun Yatsen . After a failed attempt to make a socialist revolution in 1926/27 , Kuomintang and Communist party , in a very contraddictory alliance , decided to make a united front , against Japanese invaders . This strange alliance have been broken many times . Mao Tse Tung was finally able to take over and to unify the chinese market in 1949 . Since then a huge work of defeudalization has been taken on and China started her "long march" towards capitalism , first started a State Capitalism , after the Kissinger mission , Teng Siao Ping began to open to economic liberalization leading to private-like capitalism , and in some pick , alredy imperialism, no matter if it is called with an euphemism "socialist market" .
Because capitalism develops inequally , also the benefits are inequal , so there are fractions of new social strata wishing to count more and to have more freedom to move . Of course they will have some "marthyr" to send in the front line of there political battles . Internet is one of the modern trench where this battle is taken on . So, Who shakes the tree must be conscious that some "nut" can fall on his head .

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of A cyberdissident jailed for two years

Friday, January 16th 2004 - 03:34:27 PM

A cyberdissident jailed for two years

From Hong Kong Voice of Democracy

8 December, 2003


A cyberdissident jailed for two years

A biology professor has been jailed for two years by a court in Xian, northwestern China for publishing several "subversive" essays on the Internet. In one of his writings, Yan Jun, 32, condemnned the lack of press freedom in China.

Reporters Without Borders has called on Chinese prime minister Wen Jiaboa to release him. "This sentence comes the very day (8 December) that the prime minister is meeting UN Secretary General Koffi Annan," pointed out Robert Ménard, secretary general of the press freedom organisation."We can only note the hypocrisy of the Chinese government that cracks down on cyberdissidents while making a good impression with diplomats and international organisations. "We have seen increasing censorship of the Internet these last few months. The release of young Internet user Liu Di is just a smoke screen thrown up by the Chinese authorities", he added.

In one of the essays, Yan called for a reassessment of the trials of students arrested during the Tiananmen Square massacre on 4 June 1989. In another he called for the release of the former secretary general of the communist party, Zhao Ziyang, put under house arrest after voicing support for students arrested during the events of 1989.

The cyberdissident had to be treated in hospital in July after being beaten by fellow prisoners. His wife has told Agence France-Presse (AFP) that he plans to appeal against his sentence. Yan is a well-known political dissident of long standing. He was first arrested in 1998, during former US President Bill Clinton's official visit to Xian.

Nine people have been tried since 1 November and sentenced to prison terms of two to ten years in jail, for putting messages critical of the government on the Internet. With 47 prisoners, China is by the far the biggest jail in the world for cyberdissidents.

China is to attend the World Summit on the Information Society in Geneva from 10-12 December. It will attempt to impose its stance - hostile to freedom of expression on the Internet - in the draft statement of principles that will be debated during the summit.

More information : www.internet.rsf.org

Julien Pain
Bureau Internet / Internet desk

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Free Du Daobin

Thursday, January 15th 2004 - 04:02:16 PM

Free Du Daobin

Google Search on Du Daobin.


Du Daobin, a civil servant from HuBei, a central province of China, was taken into custody by plainclothes state security agents on Oct. 28, accused of "subverting state power."

Before his arrest, Du was a prolific writer who had published his essays online. He was deeply affected by the arrest of fellow Internet writer Liu Di, a 23-year-old college student known as "The Stainless Steel Mouse."

On October 31 '03 Hong Kong Voice of Democracy called for his Release.

On November 3, the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ)wrote to Hu Jintao to condemn this detention, and said "Du Daobin, Liu Di, Yang Zili, Xu Wei, Jin Haike, and Zhang Honghai should all be released immediately and unconditionally." The full text of the letter is available here, at

Now another petition has begun here. It says, in part:

Several dozen Chinese academics, reporters and scholars have written a petition letter addressed to Premier Wen Jiabao, which calls on Beijing to release Du and protect freedom of speech.

"We express our deep regret over the matter," the letter said. "We request that the highest executive authorities take lawful measures to instruct the relevant authorities to liberate Du Daobin."

"We hope more people show their concerns for Du and other conscience prisoners, and sign this letter." One of the authors, Mr. Liu Xiaobo, said.

Entitled An Open Letter to Premier Wen Jiabao By Liu Xiaobo and others, it says "the letter is now open for public to sign. Anyone who would like to sign the letter may send an email to FreeDuDaobin@yahoo.com to give authorization to put his name at the end of the letter, or just sign here:"

I would like to sign the petition letter below

My name:

Here's an alert page about it from IFEX (International Freedom of Expression Exchange):


And last but not least, the Democracy Wall for China welcomes the newsfeed from Radio Free China. Thank You, Brother Barnabas, for this valuable service.


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Brother Barnabas

Thursday, January 8th 2004 - 09:49:03 AM

Brother Barnabas


I have a news weblog devoted to human rights and religious liberty entitled


The China only news is at:

The main focus of these weblogs is on the persecuted house church Christians in China.

There is an rss feed if you wish to syndicate this news.

If you have any news you want me to publish feel free to email it to me at:

Brother Barnabas

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Thursday, December 18th 2003 - 10:30:16 AM

marcello passagrilli


Democracy is the best political folder for an easy developing of capitalistic production. The need to move faster the goods the capitals and conseguently the people , brings with it ,more individual freedom.
So individual freedom is a pleasent effect of a smooth liberal developing of means of production .That is an abstract pattern that very seldom happens to be concretized , more often comes only as an approximate image of it , sometime can also degenerate to his contrary .
Why ? because the forces competing for the achievment of the goal of free production and liberal market , are often contrasting each other, in that case fractions of economic parties struggle to have own poltical representatives in the government. So they are shaping the form of the state according to their needs , and conseguently we will have different sort of political regimes.
So, democracy is something that comes as a perfect result of equlibrium of forces ,( if comes ), and is not a model of utopian hope that comes from the good will of people.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Reporters Without Borders - China

Friday, December 5th 2003 - 12:56:33 PM

Reporters Without Borders - China


Reporters Without Borders has started a China section, regularly emailing the sad news of internet oppression by the CCP to the leaders of many large western corporations. More on that here. (http://www.rsf.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=273)


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Chen Yanbin, Co-Editor - Tielu (Iron Currents)

Friday, December 5th 2003 - 12:27:28 PM

Chen Yanbin, Co-Editor - Tielu (Iron Currents)


Chen Yanbin should be released.

From Reporters Without Borders:

Chen Yanbin

The co-editor of the underground magazine Tielu (Iron Currents), he was arrested at the end of 1990 and jailed on 5 March 1991 for 15 years, and four years deprivation of political rights, by the Beijing people's court. He was found guilty of "incitement to rebellion" and spreading "counter-revolutionary propaganda."

A former student of communications at Beifang University, he was a leader of the Chinese Democratic and Revolutionary Front, considered by the authorities to be a "counter revolutionary group," when he was arrested. He was co-editor with Zhang Yafei of Tielu, which is dedicated to the memory of the repression during the 1989 "Beijing Spring." Hundreds of copies were photocopied and circulated in which Chen and Zhang called the Communist Party an "authoritarian tyranny" and the socialist system a "great disaster and regression of 20th century humanity." He is not due to be released from Beijing Prison n°2 before 2005.

[end item]


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Liu Di, The Stainless Steel Mouse

Friday, December 5th 2003 - 11:11:52 AM

Liu Di, The Stainless Steel Mouse

Let the Stainless Steel Mouse Speak! Let up on Liu Di!

According to this item, ( http://grep.law.harvard.edu/article.pl?sid=03/12/02/0237228&mode=flat), Chinese cyber-satirist Lui Di, known as "The Stainless Steel Mouse", has been banned from speaking with foreign journalists. It was reported in Asia Media ( http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=5322 ) this way:

CHINA: Cyber-dissident cannot talk to foreign media

As part of her bail conditions, released cyber-dissident Liu Di has been told not to meet foreign journalists

South China Morning Post
Tuesday, December 2, 2003

As part of her bail conditions, released cyber-dissident Liu Di has been told not to meet foreign journalists, her relatives and lawyer said yesterday - adding she still faced as much as 12 months of legal uncertainty. Liu, known by her Web name Stainless Steel Mouse, was arrested in November last year and spent a year in prison without trial or formal charges being brought against her. She was released into her father's custody on Friday. "Liu Di cannot meet with the press, she is resting," said her 80-year-old grandmother, Liu Heng.
(Date Posted: 12/2/2003)

The Washington Post reported on "The Stainless Steel Mouse" this way ( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23623-2003Nov30.html ) :
China Releases 3 Internet Writers, but Convicts 1 Other

By Philip P. Pan
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, December 1, 2003; Page A14

BEIJING, Nov. 30 -- China released three Internet essayists who were detained a year ago for criticizing the government, including a college student in Beijing whose arrest on subversion charges had attracted international attention, a human rights group based in Hong Kong reported Sunday.

Liu Di, 23, a psychology student at Beijing Normal University known online by the pen name "Stainless Steel Mouse," and the two other writers were released Friday afternoon, the group reported. The same day, a court convicted a fourth writer charged in the case, Jiang Lijun, of subversion and sentenced him to four years in prison, his lawyer said.

Liu's father, Liu Qinghua, said by telephone that his daughter was released on bail but ordered not to speak to journalists. Frank Lu, director of the Information Center for Human Rights and Democracy, said he spoke by telephone with one of the other writers, Wu Yiran, 34, and confirmed the release on bail of the third, Li Yibin, 29, through friends.

The releases come days before German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is scheduled to visit China and little more than a week before Premier Wen Jiabao's first state trip to the United States. China often releases political prisoners before or after important meetings with U.S. and European leaders to blunt criticism of its human rights record.

Before her Nov. 7 arrest last year, Liu managed a popular Web site and was known for posting satirical notes about the hypocrisy of China's ruling Communist Party. In one essay, she suggested that people sell Marxist literature on the streets like "real Communists." In another, she argued that China's repressive national security laws make the country less secure.

She also wrote essays pressing for the release of Huang Qi, a businessman who was arrested in 2000 for running an Internet site that carried items about the 1989 Tiananmen Square crackdown and was sentenced to five years in prison for subversion.

News of the arrest of the "Stainless Steel Mouse" spread quickly across cyberspace. Internet users in China and abroad had campaigned aggressively for her release.

In October, police arrested Du Daobin, 39, who organized a petition in Liu's behalf, and charged him with subversion. The organizer of another petition, Luo Changfu, was reportedly sentenced to three years in prison earlier this month. Altogether, China has tried, sentenced or denied the appeals of 13 Internet essayists since mid-October.

Prosecutors have said they will decide whether to indict Liu on any charges by mid-December, according to her father. Asked whether she had admitted wrongdoing, he replied: "She did some things that she shouldn't have. But whether it constitutes a crime, we can't say because she hasn't been indicted. . . . If she hasn't been indicted of any charges, how can she plead innocent or guilty?" (end Washington Post report)

So what are the prospects for Freedom of Speech on the mainland? Apparently not good. The Chinese Communist Party has plenty of western corporations willing to sell them the Information Technology tools for oppression. The Register (www.theregister.co.uk) recently reported ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/7/34354.html ) thus:

IT giants fingered over links to China
By Tim Richardson
Posted: 04/12/2003 at 17:07 GMT

A human rights organisation has written to more than a dozen of the world's leading IT companies urging them to take a stand against the Chinese government's repression of the Internet.

Reporters Without Borders - which fights for press freedom - has written to the bosses of Microsoft, Intel, Thomson, Nortel Networks, Hewlett-Packard, Logitech, Oracle, NEC, Samsung, Sun Microsystems, IBM, Yahoo! and Alcatel saying that they are all selling gear that helps the Chinese government spy upon and crack down on people using the Internet. [bold italics mine -dcm]

"All of them [the bosses of the IT giants] should feel responsible for the plight of China's embattled Internet users," said Reporters Without Borders in a statement.

Singling out individual companies, Reporters Without Borders claimed that "Cisco Systems supplies special online spying systems while Intel just sells its standard products".

It went on: "Yahoo! agreed to change its portal and search-engine to facilitate censorship in exchange for access to the Chinese market, while South Korea's Samsung is simply selling its goods to a neighbouring country."

No one from Cisco, Intel or Yahoo! was available for comment at the time of writing.

Of course, this isn't the first time that the IT industry has been fingered for its involvement in China.

A year ago, Cisco Systems, Nortel Networks, Microsoft, and Sun Microsystems, among others, were accused of aiding and abetting human rights violations in China by Amnesty International.

The human rights watchdog argued that China depends on the technological expertise and investment of foreign companies that provide technology which is used to restrict fundamental freedoms.

Amnesty listed how the Chinese authorities have "introduced scores of regulations, closed Internet cafes, blocked e-mails, search engines, foreign news and politically-sensitive websites, and recently introduced a filtering system for web searches on a list of prohibited key words and terms".

The Register links to a related story.

Isn't it about time the Chinese People started reaping some of the benefits of economic progress, like Freedom of Speech and Assembly? How much longer should they wait to be able to poke fun at this sanctimonious regime, to whom certain forms of breathing (Falun Gong) it finds threatening?

Liu Di, even if You can't talk to the foreign press, know that We are with You. You go, Girl.

various reports are (c) Copyright their respective publications.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Tuesday, August 26th 2003 - 10:58:09 AM

marcello passagrilli


When microstories take the place of History, than people like Mr. krouse bealive to be an impartial interpreter of phenomena that only scientific analysis is allowed to criticize.

With heart full of individual revenge, Mr. Krouse like a "tarantola spider" spits poison, just to outburst anger coming from some personal problem that he must have had with some chinese officer.
Analyzing the China situation with proper personal experience, but without a serene scientific methotology,you get as answer, different and contradictory opinions.Of course your personal subjective approach should influence in a good or bad sense, but if you use only your emotions, than is not possible to describe objectively the reality you met.
I visited China many times and in different places, even the countryside.
According to my personal subjective experience, i found that country marvellous, people is great, full of humanity, authorities very kind, I didn't see any form of oppression, people smiling etc. etc.
Nevertheless, looking with the eyes of a social scientist I'm able to analyze all the difficulties of the population and of course so many contraddictions that an emotional glance, doesn't give you the opportunity to discover.
Nothing worse ( but I can say so far, much better) than what we are used to face in our countries where capitalism is already developed and goods, capitals,and of course people "enjoy" more freedom to move. Let China develope and you will see the same sort of freedom of developed countries. The problem is if we can call freedom places where wolves and lambs mixed together enjoy it.( may be lambs enjoy a bit less)

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Wednesday, August 13th 2003 - 04:53:25 PM

David Krouse

Executive Tung,
Do not think that the people of Hong Kong will for long stand your leadership. You are guilty of attempting to subvert the people of Hong Kong with the un-democratic policy's of the government of Beijing.
David Krouse and Jesus Christ

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Friday, August 1st 2003 - 07:31:08 PM

David Krouse

To Executive Tung,
In the name of the people of Hong Kong,
I demand your immediate and un-condittional resignation from office.
Because of the un-democratic way in which you came to office, because of the un-democratic policy's and laws you have tried to immplament against and force upon the people of Hong Kong, because you seek to curry favor with the officials in Beijing and seek to implament there polciy's over the favor and the policy's of the people of Hong Kong. I have two demands, the immediate resignation of Executive Tung, and the permanet shelving of the Article 23 laws with the creation of a law that would prevent the future creation of any law that attempted to immplament the same policys and and goals of Article 23. I demand this in the name of the people of Hong Kong.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Thursday, July 31st 2003 - 06:10:35 PM

David Krouse

Donnot sit at home and say that thing's in your country donnot concern you. They do, and if you donnot stand up who will. I urge each and evryone of you in China to stand against the government of China's dictorial policy's, I would urge you to join Ding Zilin and the Mother's of Tiananmen in there campaign for acountableity, truth and justice for those who died at Tiananmen. SAVE CHINA

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Sunday, July 20th 2003 - 11:54:31 AM

David Krouse

The demonstration on July 1st was a sucess as no doupht many of you heard. The Article 23 laws have been dropped for the time being. Interestingly enough, a demonstration of 1000 was planned for July 17 in Beijing, but I donnot know what happened yet, my sources have not gone public with the information if there is any information to be had. SAVE CHINA

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Friday, July 4th 2003 - 12:16:05 AM

marcello passagrilli


Litterally Democracy : DEMOS CRATES (ancient greek) Means People's power.

Who (State) honestly today can affirm without any doubt to be democratic?

Bourgeoisy took power in England and France trough bloody revolutions and started a democratic political sistem only related to their class,lower classes were excluded even from vote.

England allowed women to vote,after fiercy struggle only at beginning of last century, other nations much more later, Switzerland for istance only few years ago.Today in western countries people that believe on democratic election and partecipe to the poll are isignificant.

In U.S.A. only 40%. Ruling politicians have 50% of that 40% that means that with the votes of 21% of poputation they have the legitimacy to govern the country, and they call it Democracy.

America was more democratic during the "Far West" Epopea, When all people were allowed to use a proper gun. One man one gun,and Sheriff (arab word) where watching the fairness of game.

The Parlamentary crises is a well known fact since the end of 19th century.

Who claims today democratic rules it is only playng the game of alternative power with no base of democracy at all but just for own sake. Real Democracy is something more than what today any existing regime is able to show. So the problem is not Hong Kong, but all the world.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Thursday, June 26th 2003 - 11:54:11 AM

David Krouse

Dear writer's of the Wall, the freedom's of Hong Kong are threatened by the new Article 23 legislation. This is an attempt to turn Hong Kong into a police state like China. It is an attempt to slow the progress of Democracy in China, I ask that whoever you are were ever you are that you protest this new legislation. There are already several protest's planned for more information I hope you contact the Hong Kong Alliance, the Civil Human Right's League, or the China Support Netwok to find out for more. SAVE CHINA

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Sunday, June 22nd 2003 - 10:52:45 AM

marcello passagrilli


Generally speaking, any violent act is to be condamned; morally, violence is justified when it is necessary to avoid further violence or to restore freedom etc. historically violence is the extreme ratio when it is not possible to settle economic disputes in a peacefully way.
In any country, the establishment that feels jeopardizing his power, react at same way.
The problem is not having freedom to propagand proper ideas, because until your ideas are harmless are accepted by any regime, if your ideas are supported with organized structures that can be in alternative of existing power, then no matter how democratic is the regime, that you will assist to strong a repression.
In china you can pray any god,there is plenty of freedom on religion, of course the sistem inform people to be aware regarding supertitions etc, and that is obviously a good thing, but no problem for practicing relions, The Beijing municipality at own expenses, restored and reopened the catholic church of saint Joseph, and that has given to the chinese catholic church, you can go there to pray anytime you need.
Another thing is the permission to organize the clerical activities depending on a foreign country like the vatican city, after all, during "medio evo" it was famous the struggle of the church versus the emperor for the nomination of bishops, because church gain material power over the spiritual attitude of the people, so it is not a matter of freedom to profess own religion but it is matter to obtain power inside China other then the to day establishment.Give me a good reason why the chinese establisment has to share economic and political power with vatican, in the name of religion freedom. Why Vatican city doesn't allow the chinese communist party to set up an office to undertake propaganda and to organize people inside the vatican city?

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Wednesday, June 18th 2003 - 10:18:27 AM

David Krouse

The new Artcile 23 law's must not suceed, they will make Hong Kong a police state like China. If you live in Hong Kong and read this there is something you can do, on Tuesday,July 1
at 3:00 p.m there will be a demonstration protest these law's, to find out more please go to the Hong Kong Alliance to Support Patriotic Democracy Movement's in China.The Democracy Wall administration may be able to provide you with a link to there website. Save China

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of chris

Wednesday, June 11th 2003 - 06:52:15 AM



Hi, will like to know if there are any memorials/ monuments built to commemorate the death of the students?

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Monday, June 9th 2003 - 01:12:34 PM

David Krouse

A few days ago was the 14th anniversary
of the Tiananmen Massacre,in 14 years the government of China has worked to create a stable economy,build good diplomatic relations,and work towards advancement, but nothing has been done to apologize for the massacre of unarmed students and workers, nor has the principles they sacrificed themselves for become much more then the stuff that dreams are made of.SAVE CHINA

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Newton

Sunday, June 1st 2003 - 04:58:41 AM



On 06/04/03 marks the 14th anniversary of Tiananmen Massacre. History will forever remember this day as a day then the tanks rolled in and Army were called to crush the peaceful student demonstrators. History will also remember this day as a day when ordinary Chinese stood up to speak out against oppression and tyranny, and demanded basic human right as well as a transparent governing system.

To those souls who left our world during this Massacre, the whole world will look upon you as heroes of freedom.

Sadly, to this day Communist China has kept up with its severe human rights violation. We the international community demand the release of ALL prisoners of conscience, internet dissidents, Falun Gong practitioners and Christians. People should not be persecuted and tortured simply for expressing their view and practicing their faith.

I believe with the hard work of many human rights activists, ordinary men and women in China and around the global… one day in the near future light and justice shall be restored to this ancient land.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Thursday, May 22nd 2003 - 10:45:59 AM

marcello passagrilli


When we try to analyze historic events with the microunit of measure like the "emotions", we enlarge,make very big, situations that in the dinamics of long period of historic times are really almost ininfluent.
If you drop even a big stone in troubled waters, hardly notice which is the water moved by the stone, on the contrary if you drop just a sand grain over a calm smooth surface of water, you can see the result immediately.
What is Tien an men event, compared to the economic revolution that China is facing? nothing more than a sand grain in troubled waters. Chinese gouvernment is the best political folder for a fast economic development.It is much better than the socalled western democracies, where the fences encircling the people are just a bit far away from you, but as soon as you come too close to them, you will electrocuted the same.It is better to come over Tienan men question, and the final solution it is not wanting more democracy or less democracy. The real question is private property of means of productions or abolition of such property ? China must develope in capitalistic way, because doesn't exist other way to pass from an agricoltural economy to an idustrial economy,and it is more functional to reintroduce private property rather than to mantain state property (state capitalism, not communism, Mao Tse Tung Accomplished the democratic revolution of Sun Yatsen,He couldn't make any communist revolution because China was underdeveloped, and what he established in China, was State capitalism and not communism) Communist revolution should still come.but as China will be developed She will be ready to make the real communist world revolution ?
Or will become the first imperialistic country in the world? Who knows ? we will see.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of erin

Tuesday, May 20th 2003 - 04:18:49 PM



I think that what these people did is very courageous. If more people could stand up for what they know is right.. that world would be a much better place.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Jewel Zong

Friday, April 25th 2003 - 04:57:10 AM

Jewel Zong


I am a Chinese grad.I am not really clear why I google the June 4 1989.At that year£¬I was still a child,what i know is cartoon and candy.I have no memory about the campaign itself,but remember the atmosphere.I want know something about it.China's media says students kill the military , the western media maybe say the opposite.Our generation know little about it...

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of Justin Yuan

Thursday, April 24th 2003 - 08:45:12 AM

Justin Yuan


No Autarchy, No Tyranny;

Come on, Everybody; Stand up, Our Nation;

Believe that Our Country Will be Free One Day!!

Freedom, and Democracy;

Our Belief Will be Forever!!

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 09:44:58 AM

marcello passagrilli


Liberty is the consciousness of necessity.

Freedom is for the human kind the awareness and the possibility to solve problems of any sort. For a single person that is not so stupid as to identify his freedom with the fulfillment of any desire coming also from his basic instincts, freedom in today's society is something related to the means that you have to satisfy your needs.

If you are free to move all across your country without any passport control, theoretically you are free to move, but if you haven't the money to buy a train ticket, your freedom is a deceiving freedom, is democracy on paper.

Also, if you are allowed to protest against the authorities, but your protest doesn't change your condition, you remain "contento e coglionato"; that means happy & harangued.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of marcello passagrilli

Sunday, April 13th 2003 - 09:21:25 AM

marcello passagrilli


Any country when starting fast economic development faces what the experts call "unbalance crises". That means that while the "structure" runs, the overstructure, the infrastructure doesn't keep the pace.

In China the "sclerotic" state apparatus was inadequate to the new objective demands of modernization.

The push towards change came from inside the body of the same ruling class; all the protest came from sons and daughters of people in charge of governing China.

Chinese protesters suffered very little if we compare Tien An Men with what happened in Europe from 1968 to the early eighties. Europe, especially Italy, suffered more than ten years of political terrorism and a destruction of one generation by the repression of state apparatus.

China solved the problem in few months with few casualties compared to the huge population.

China learned the lesson, and is driving with intelligent flexibility the economic development. The unique development will bring more strong social problems, but so far is the only country in the world that can guide this huge economic turmoil. It is like if 4 Americas were developing at a terrific rhythm of 8% per year of GNP. To develop, America suffered a civil war, and ended a "legitimate" state of slavery of farm workers only in 1862/66.

During the great depression in the 1930's conditions of people were terrible and human rights were something very odd. So give a chance to China, and do not forget our past that has been much worse. We will see if the chinese ruling class will win this historically unprecedented challenge.

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of socrates

Thursday, March 20th 2003 - 06:21:38 PM


What is "Free"?

Is it the freedom to associate with whom one chooses?

Is it the freedom to speak out against government or party policy or position without fear of being imprisoned for such speech?

Is it the freedom to organise opposition to government policy, or party policy?

Is it the freedom to start or practice a religion without having to register it with the government or party?

Is it the freedom to practice whatever type of breathing excercise one chooses in a public park or sidewalk or street or place without fear of imprisonment for self or family?

Is it the freedom to breathe?

What is the relation between the freedom to make money, and the freedom to live for your own sake?

What is "Free?"

Been there?

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of 1234

Thursday, March 20th 2003 - 05:55:37 PM


freedom do came with a price... but not over nite! THE MIGHT USA has its war--you have have heard... killed in millions... where is the freedom then!?
As a Chinese, with the Chinese blood... I think, you should go back
and take looks at it... maybe you are there already... If so, maybe you can start to change things around a little...

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of 1234

Thursday, March 20th 2003 - 05:52:13 PM



Chinese ppl are very free... just FYI... been there!?

(Note to 1234 - previous WALL posting moved to comment() thread for next posting. Please use the comment facility to continue a thread of discussion. Each "Brick" will only have 150 posts, and it costs us money for separate commenting for each "Brick", and we maintain it with minimal staff. Thanks for helping and understanding - The WALL Admin)

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Friday, March 14th 2003 - 10:50:12 AM

David Krouse

Dear Readers,

Do not lose Hope or Faith that freedom and Democracy will come to China.They can not keep Freedom out forever.May the Love of the Lord be with China now and always may China stay blameless
till he comes. Save China

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of tony

Thursday, March 13th 2003 - 09:17:50 PM


China's abuse at Tianenmen square pales compared to what they have done and continue to do to the people of Tibet.
Chinese Govt. Concern for human rights?
It would laughable if it weren't so sad...


Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Monday, March 10th 2003 - 05:01:35 PM

David Krouse

Dear Readers,
Please do not shrug off any of what is written on this wall.And do not abuse those that speak out against the Democracy Movement, remember that only when a peson may speak whatever he thinks and feels can he live in freedom. Remember it is the right of all persons to say what they think and feel for better or for worse. We must encourage people to speak out because only by speaking out will they be able to live in freedom. Save China

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of David Krouse

Monday, March 10th 2003 - 03:32:40 PM

David Krouse

To all who read this, Please do not be blind to the condition of Human Rights in China. Harken to my words her and open both your hearts and minds.Remeber that the children in Tiananmen Square were willing to die for what they believed, would they have begun a fast for freedom were they not convinced that there was coruption at the highest government levels and that it was their time to speak out and become the voice of the people who longed for change? And because they told the truth they were murdered or imprisioned. Be blind no longer, be deaf no longer, and for the sake of those who died please remain silent no longer. Save China

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of PJ

Saturday, March 8th 2003 - 03:47:50 AM



I guess that if you'd visited Nazi Germany during the 1930s and early 40s as a tourist, it might have looked like a pretty liveable place, too. Even many Germans thought that way until after the war - and some still think that way even today.

Howewer, if you happened to be a German citizen *and* a Jew, a homosexual, an intellectual or a member of some other ethnic or political minority, things might have looked a bit different for you ...

If you want to see what a system is really like, look at the way it treats its minorities and opponents! If you "play along well", you can even live a good life (sort of) in Iraq or in North-Korea. The problems (your problems) only begin if you for some reason find yourself in disagreement with the establishment some day ...

Chinese Democracy WALL:

Thoughts of The WALL

Tuesday, February 18th 2003 - 03:54:23 AM



Welcome to the new and improved Democracy Wall for mainland China. Your discussion will lead us forward into the unknown future with Courage, Sensitivity, and Inventiveness. Let us create a more Humane and Just social order.

- The WALL

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