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Great Wong [e] YO PREPARED TO TASTE THE RED FLAG!! Tuesday, March 2nd 2004 - 02:16:03 PM

Bittersweet [e] Addition to Peace Plans. PIPP: is considered Plan B So logically... Peace Process: is Plan A (altho its not explicitly stated) Sunday, November 2nd 2003 - 02:05:29 PM

Bittersweet [e] Remember folks your IR Position Paper is due MONDAY! so to help you guys out (in case you don't know what the Peace Plans stated) here they are, word for word: Peace Process 1. Withdraw forced from North half of Gaza Strip. Immediately. 2. Within 6 weeks, if there are any changes [arrow pointed at changes stating "good"] in Israel, the Israeli forces in South Gaza Strip. 3. Within all parts of the Israel-Palestinian border there will be patrolled by U.N. forces or the P.I.P.P. [Signed by Palestine and Israel] PIPP Palestine Israel Peace Process All countries signing are willing to supply economically and/or military aid, if necessary. All details of this treaty are absolute. [Signed by Great Britain, United States, Israel, Palestine, Syria, Japan, Turkey, Canada, & Russia] Well that's it, hope they help. This was not altered for grammar errors or making sense. This is exactly what you came up with, word for word, arrows and all. Saturday, November 1st 2003 - 12:56:10 PM

Russia Will the peace treaty last? Why? Will the peace treaty fail? Why? Ok as we have already seen the peace treaty is already startin to fall apart. The differneces between the two countries are too great to maintain a reliable peace plan. There is too much history blockin these 2 religions from seeing the real goal "Peace". We beleive that this peace treaty will not last under these circumstances, something has to give whether it be Isreal, or Palestine, or both their huge egos i dont know but we all know that this treaty is not on the right path. It certainly is a stepping stone to peace in the future but as of right now i think it will fail. Also not near enough of the major issues were representer properly or handled properly it was like one side was blaming the other side goin around and around in a vicious cricle. Hopfully future events will prove that this treaty needs major rammifications! Are the goals realistic? As far as the goals being realistic i think its a huge joke. Basically the goals are way to out of whack to ever be accomplished in real life, I mean come on Isreal will give up 20% of their land incldung the gaza strip and the West bank? Ya right i can see their economy running away right now! I mean honestly in real life their is too much contempt between Isreal and Palestine and how are u gonna promote peace by having Isreali soldiers occupying their country thats not peace, thats control within boudaries. And as for the HUGE wall goin through the country how the hell is that gonna work, ya we want peace but dont mind that massive "fence" as Isreal likes to call it, running through the country just segregating the whole country. How long do you think it will take for Palestine to become a state? Wow, Here we go, I think it will take a very long time considering Isreal does not want Palestine to have their own state and Palestine does not want Isreal to have its own state, so as far as that goes it will take a considerable amount of time until they both get their heads on straight. For Palestine and Isreal there is no such thing as coexistion, they both want it all or nothing and that is just not the way you do things, that gets you in trouble. There will always be war and terrorism between the two simply splitting the country is not enough. What issues do you think are important but were not discussed at the open debate? Ok one huge issue that was not touched on was whats going on with that massive wall being built inside the country, that is a very important issue and must be resolved. I believe the wall is causeing more harm than good. Also how will actaully stop terrorism? The fact is they cant and they cannot say they can because it is physically impossible, simply educating the ppl is not enough they will not listen and that is proven. Telling them, oh stop hating now were freinmds is bogus and will never work. Also i think Isreal should pull out of the land they claim to be giving up to Palestine, if it is Palestinian land why not get the hell out? You dont own it and should not have control of it any longer. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 07:55:35 PM

Carter [e] Hey Michael...or should I say Deep Throat (and i won't go into details of how wierd that is...no reason to cut you up for that one)....BUT THE SIMULATION IS OVER...and I'm not undisclosed...I'm WAY too smart for that! So get over it and stop accusing me of being everyone who makes an anonymous post...this is my friendly warning! Monday, October 27th 2003 - 06:52:22 PM

^^" michael sigh. Carter. never thinking before posting. of course undisclosed is u. geez dude. get u're act together. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 05:58:24 PM

Undisclosed Just a thought for Japan: you seem to feel threatened by the US, and are thinking of perhaps having to "defend" yourself against North Korea and the US, however...just do a little bit of research and find out which country has parts of its navy in your ports as protection...you might be surprised to find that your "protector" is one you are looking to defend yourself from. Think about your defence plans... Monday, October 27th 2003 - 12:11:34 PM

Carter [e] -Will the Peace Treaty last? Why? -Will the Peace Treaty fail? Why? At the beginning, I believed that the Peace Treaty was going to last because both Israel and Palestine seemed to have come up with an agreeable treaty that both of them signed. Since they were able to build some kind of 'trust', well a foundation for trust, this treaty between Israel and Palestine seemed very hopeful. In the last little, problems have arised due to Palestine which makes me lean for towards the side that this treaty will fail. Now all of a sudden, right after Palestine signed and agreed to the treaty, they have come up with all these new demands and such and this is only causing for problems and dilemmas for the rest of the Internation Community. Because of this, in a sense we are somewhat back to where we were when we began and it seems like this trust we had built between the two is none gone and needs to be re-established. However, I do have high hopes for the PIPP treaty that was signed by the countries that attended the Peace Conference, as well as Russia who signed later. All countries who signed this treaty agreed to its wording and it now seems as if the countries who are part of PIPP need to to put it into action because of these new tensions between Israel and Palestine. Also, now there is the problem of the countries who don't think PIPP is useful, and therefore that causes problems as well. Thus the countries who are still for PIPP need to help this situation so peace can be achieved. --Are the goals realistic? Once again, some of the goals are realistic and others are not. For example, the idea of giving part of the Gaza Strip out in the way Israel and Palestine came up with is realistic in a sense; however, it is not likely for it to entirely succeed, especially now that Palestine has completely changed. Therefore, I believe more that the goals are not realistic because both sides do not agree on the terms of this treaty and this is very evident. From having civil conversations at the Peace Conference, to nothing but yelling and arguing with each other at the Press Conference (although a lot of this new tension was instigated by a certain few...and I know who you are). I believe that what needs to be done is to rethink these goals and expand on the ones we have now, BUT we need to come up with a better 'step process' if you want to call it that. ---How long do you think it will take for Palestine to become a state? It will either be never or else it will take a VERY long time because from the way it seems, it appears that both the Israelis and Palestinians can not co-exist; there is just WAY too much tension between these two groups on various aspects (ex: religious beliefs). In order for Palestine to become a state, I believe that they need to rethink their position on some of their demands and need to realize that it is Israel that is the country and therefore is the ruler of Israel and that Palestine is a part of Israel. Therefore, Palestine needs to realize that in order for them to become a state like they want, they need to be willing to give certain things up which they aren't at this moment and Israel realizes this and I congratulate Israel for not giving into some of their ridiculous demands. However, I don't blame Palestine for wanting the things they do because that's only normal, but they need to realize like I said above that they need to be willing to give up certain things in order to get what they want. As it is learned as a childhood lesson, "You can't always get what you ask for"....sacrifices need to be made. ----What issues were not discussed today at the open debate that should have been discussed? I believe that the issues that were not discussed in the open debate are the issues that Palestine had mentioned to me one day in a conversation with them (I also believe they mentioned these things in a post). They brought up that the Peace Conference was succesful in the way that we came to some sort of reasoning but certain issues like trade, social, economic, political, and all that good stuff weren't even mentioned. Which is true and these issues do need to be discussed because they are fundamentals in forming a state. I think the reason why these fundamentals weren't even discussed on was because certain people were TOO busy talking about terrorism and how it needs to be stopped, when the reality of it is terrorism is something that you just can't turn off. It is something that seems as if it is going to exist forever (not that Canada supports terrorism). People believe terrorism will stop if Osama Bin Laden is captured, but terrorism is so much for than that. To us (the outsiders) they are terrorists, but to others they may be freedom fighters. It is all a question of perspective and that's why I believe that the open debate wasn't entirely useful because it mainly concentrated on terrorism and pretty much only revealed on many levels the tension that still exists amongst the two nations. I believe that the open debate wasn't controlled very well and that's why so many issues were left unspoken; however, TIME was also a main issue too. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 12:08:12 PM

Syria Oops!!it looks as if we accidentally put our post up twice!! However in the second one (Syria) there is a couple small additions and corrections to the first Just thought I'd notify everyone of this Monday, October 27th 2003 - 11:43:53 AM

Syria Here we go! Heading into the Peace conference...wasn't our main goal and objective to create and establish PEACE among coutries! Well it is proven that that isn't capable of happening. Right when everyone thought that negotiations were reached and countries were getting along..in the matter of days countries were up to their evil and vengeful ways again...It is clear that both Israel and Palestine have different wants, and Israel is just not willing to give Palestine everything they're asking for. 1 - The only peace treaty right now that has been implemented is the PIPP, honestly, it's a momentary step towards peace, however, I don't believe it'll actually last! Yes, Israel will return a piece of the Gaza strip, but Palestinian extremist groups will continue to suicide bomb and will not let up and create more terrorist attacks until they get what they want. Things like this take time, it's "simple", but it's a mindset that these people have been living for a LONG time! The whole cycle of both Israel and Palestine not willing to budge on their positions will continue, creating violence yet again! Oh look, have we seen this before somewhere?! Didn't Canada serve this peace conference to solve these conflicts!?..not expand on them and create more! Like I said,it's a cycle. 2 - So, bluntly: there's no way this treaty's going to work! It's going to fail and there are clear signs that lead us to believe that. It's just a matter of how many hours/days/weeks it lasts for (maybe if even a week?). One of the major reasons why it will fail is because there is at least generations (both Palestinians and Israelies) who hold/held grudges, and are unable to believe in co-existence. Realistically Palestine is asking a little too much then they can bargain for, and Israel, quite convincingly is not willing to give them exactly what they want. So, in order for it to work, the younger generation needs to be educated about how wrong the previous generations were and that co-existence is possible; in essence, completely forget about everyone but the children! This takes time, and over a period of a "few months" for Palestinian authority to take control of extreme groups without any type of militia, or anything, it's very difficult to view the plan as a realistic one! International forces are in there mediating, and guarding borders, BUT some Palestinian extremists might seem to think of it as an intrusion: "it's not your conflict...back off!" There are many issues that aren't even discussed in the treaty that are very important including: economics, trade, government or authority in Palestine...so many vital things that aren't being taken into consideration! 3 - I don't think it is unrealistic to think of Palestine as a state, however, I think that some issues surrounding this goal are unrealistic. Geographically, Palestinian territory is spread out throughout Israel, and to break-up a country in such an awkward way is very trying, and perhaps in one way, asking for another country (any country, not just Palestine) to invade and take possession. Also, in order to go about getting a Palestinian state, Israelis AND Palestinians both need to realize that a) the other race DOES exist and there are different! and that they both have very different religious beliefs, and that b) coexistence IS truly possible. This needs to be implemented in education, in the media, and in everything else! Both Israel and Palestine need to realize that they can't just not budge on their positions, but they both need to be willing to give a little, and receive a little, etc., etc., because then, we will have two sides who are open-minded, able to learn from the past and learn from their mistakes to be successful in the future, not to live in the past, but don't forget it at the same time. 4 - Truly and realistically, I don't see any way that Israel will allow Palestine to be an established state until the "terrorism", suicide bombs (whatever you wanna call it) ceases, or is almost non-existent. This is going to take time, and it's not going to take the likes of 6 months, but it will take longer than that in order for an agreement to be reached...an approximation of about 2 years to establish peace is a good guess...and then once peace talks begin...and the final details...legalities...little bickerings in bewteen...from start to finish...if both sides are truly focused and gung-ho for peace...I don't see why it wouldn't take...7 years..or maybe longer?. It's possible..anything is...but is it actually probable? We'll have to see... 5 - Other issues: Palestine - establishing an economy, trading partners, allies (well, that's already partially established, but what about an alliance between Israel and Palestine?!), an education system, possibility special Israeli communities within Palestinian borders Israel - how they will not trade with Palestine, alliances, potential change in education, perhaps a possibility of special Palestinian communities within Israeli borders? There are more issues, but those are all the ones I can come up with at this present time! Monday, October 27th 2003 - 11:38:13 AM

Aladdin -Will the peace treaty last? Why? -Will the peace treaty fail? Why? No, the peace treaty will fail because it was not nearly enough of the important issues had been discussed in this simulation. Saudi Arabia's role in this is far more important than that of most nations however we were denied the chance to express our opinions in the peace conference. The world is currently still agruing even after they all decided to sign the peace treaty that didn't detail all aspects needed to be addressed in order for both nations to obtain peace. If it were simply this easy to create peace in the middle east by giving this strip of land to Palistine, this simulation would not be important enough for us to reinact. They fight each other because the holy land in their religions is said to not be shared with both nations but instead belong to their own singular nations and simply that cannot be accomplished by giving a piece of it to Palistine. -Are the goals realistic? No, like in real life it is all optimistic garbage that can never be realistically accomplished. The reasoning behind this is because in real life the nations have so much contempt towards each other that even mothers are willing to have children for the sake of strapping a bomb to them and running into a restaurant to blow up a group of people. They cannot simply be given a piece of "their" land and be expected to be happy. Throughout history it has been proven over and over that the world constantly desires more and more power, and in order to achieve that power, nations must be stepped on. You will never be able to obtain peace in the middle east through these simple and non-logical solutions. -How long do you think it will take Palestine to become a state? As long as one of the nations exists they cannot co-exist on the same land. The reasoning behind that idea is because both nations desire the entire body of land for themselves. Unless one or the other obtain such land there will always be terrorism, there will always be strife, and there will always be an eternal war between the two. Simply splitting the land is not enough to satisfy both sides simply because the nations see themselves as controlling that entire body of land while the other is undeserving of it. -What issues were not discussed today at the open debate that should have been discussed? The plan of stopping terrorism is not realistic. They had optimistic views on how they would be removing terrorist activity without going into detail on how that would actually be accomplished. The never went into how they would be able to teach their peoples why not to suicide bomb, stop doing terrorist activities, not teaching their children to become weapons for war. You ask why are things like this? That is simple, because there is absolutely no desire for the nations to want their people to stop attacking each other. They have no reason to stop in their minds when they aren't getting what they both want. Man is natually greedy, they will both never stop hating each other or stop attacking each other as long as that hate remains. The simple viewing of the peace conference proved this by the amounts of arguing and fighting between the countries from all over the world. It is absolutely obvious that not enough thought was put into the open debate or the peace treaty and because of that, many lives will suffer the consequences. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 10:39:11 AM

tofu tofu=ak47=turkey Monday, October 27th 2003 - 10:30:10 AM

Tofu 1. As much as our country is in favour of the PIPP, we believe that the treaty will not last. The PIPP is a steppingstone in obtaining peace and eventually the treaty will break down. When 2 sides are to obtain peace, they must be willing to make sacrifices in order to succeed. The most important sacrifice for Israel is to return parts of the Gaaza Strip one at a time. Palestine has to make sure that there are no suicide bombers at that time period. However,there is still tension between two sides after the treaty was signed. Trust between two sides is an important factor in obtaining peace and they are still hesisant to openly accept each other. For ex, the Palestines are afraid that Irasel might nuke them because the U.S is providing them with nuclear weapons. If they don't trust each other, violence will occur again. 2. The PIPP will fail in the long run because Israel is asking the Palestines to completely stop all terrorist attacks in order to get a piece of the Gaaza strip. As a short term goal, this is achieveable. However, if you are talking about long term, it will not happen. Isreal has all the military support from the U.S. The Palestines have nothing. In order to stop the terrorist groups, Palestine needs a stronger military. This is something they don't have. 3. Yes the goals are realistic but the steps arent. The ultimate purpose of PIPP plan is to obtain peace. This is the first step in obtaining peace, however there is no way peace can be obtained in such a short period of time. PIPP is a good peace treaty plan only for short term objectives, however if you are talking about long term, forget about it. They need to make long term goals as well as short term goals. They have to realize that it will take a long time for Palestine to become a state. After they do become a state, they will need further time to develop their government, economy etc. In the long run, it is not just the two sides co-operating, the whole international community needs to work together regardless whether they are enemies are not. 4. It will take years and years for the ultimate objective to be accomplished. Obtaining peace is not something where you can grab within 2 months. It needs time and co-operation between the two sides. This can be a lengthy and difficult process but the result will end up satisfying for both sides at the end. 5.There are many issues that weren't discuss during the debate. They have not discussed the issue in 1948. The issue in 1948 is what sparked the fuel between the two countries. It is actually the hatred that is the primary issue between countries. The two sides should have brought this issue up because it is something that must be cleared up even though it is in the past. Another issue we should have discussed was alternative methods in obtaining peace. There is no way just stopping terrorism will acheive peace. Maybie short term, but in the long run, education will be an important factor whether peace will be achieved. By educating the people, the people will realize that what they are doing is wrong. They should have also dicussed what would happen in the future with Israel and Palestine. How will they co-operate in the future? Who will be their allies? How will their governent run? These are all the issues I felt that needed to be address during the open debate. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 10:09:28 AM

Tofu 1. As much as our country is in favour of the PIPP, we believe that the treaty will not last. The PIPP is a steppingstone in obtaining peace and eventually the treaty will break down. When 2 sides are to obtain peace, they must be willing to make sacrifices in order to succeed. The most important sacrifice for Israel is to return parts of the Gaaza Strip one at a time. Palestine has to make sure that there are no suicide bombers at that time period. However,there is still tension between two sides after the treaty was signed. Trust between two sides is an important factor in obtaining peace and they are still hesisant to openly accept each other. For ex, the Palestines are afraid that Irasel might nuke them because the U.S is providing them with nuclear weapons. If they don't trust each other, violence will occur again. 2. The PIPP will fail in the long run because Israel is asking the Palestines to completely stop all terrorist attacks in order to get a piece of the Gaaza strip. As a short term goal, this is achieveable. However, if you are talking about long term, it will not happen. Isreal has all the military support from the U.S. The Palestines have nothing. In order to stop the terrorist groups, Palestine needs a stronger military. This is something they don't have. 3. Yes the goals are realistic but the steps arent. The ultimate purpose of PIPP plan is to obtain peace. This is the first step in obtaining peace, however there is no way peace can be obtained in such a short period of time. PIPP is a good peace treaty plan only for short term objectives, however if you are talking about long term, forget about it. They need to make long term goals as well as short term goals. They have to realize that it will take a long time for Palestine to become a state. After they do become a state, they will need further time to develop their government, economy etc. In the long run, it is not just the two sides co-operating, the whole international community needs to work together regardless whether they are enemies are not. 4. It will take years and years for the ultimate objective to be accomplished. Obtaining peace is not something where you can grab within 2 months. It needs time and co-operation between the two sides. This can be a lengthy and difficult process but the result will end up satisfying for both sides at the end. 5.There are many issues that weren't discuss during the debate. They have not discussed the issue in 1948. The issue in 1948 is what sparked the fuel between the two countries. It is actually the hatred that is the primary issue between countries. The two sides should have brought this issue up because it is something that must be cleared up even though it is in the past. Another issue we should have discussed was alternative methods in obtaining peace. There is no way just stopping terrorism will acheive peace. Maybie short term, but in the long run, education will be an important factor whether peace will be achieved. By educating the people, the people will realize that what they are doing is wrong. They should have also dicussed what would happen in the future with Israel and Palestine. How will they co-operate in the future? Who will be their allies? How will their governent run? These are all the issues I felt that needed to be address during the open debate. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 10:08:42 AM

Saudi Arabia Monday, October 27th 2003 - 09:51:43 AM

~Steph & Daniele~ [e] 1) Although the PIPP treaty was a negotiated solution to the crisis in the middle east it is a short term solution that will fail to last. The treaty demands too many results with not enough time. One of the demands is that Palestine stop terrorist attacks yet this is problematic because right now they do not have the military power to prevent these attacks in the time indicated. The Palestinian government is attempting to stop them permanently yet it is impossible for them to have complete control over the attackers. Israel's demands according to the PIPP treaty are unrealistic ones because time is needed to begin the process of peace and if in that process a Palestinian terrorist group attacks, Israel will take back the land saying that Palestine has broken their end of the agreement and will therefore start the battle all over again. Overall yes the PIPP treaty is a stepping stone towards peace, however it is one which Israel and Palestine will not both stand upon. 2) The peace treaty will fail due to the unrealistic amount of time that Israel has set for Palestine. The PIPP treaty states that Israel will give Palestine a portion of the Gaza Strip and will only reclaim it if peace is not restored. The treaty also states that over time Israel will determine if they will give more land to Palestine which all depends on if the attacks are stopped. This is unrealistic because once again the Palestinian government does not and will never possess complete control over all of their citizens and the actions taken by their citizens. They can attempt to prevent the attacks but can never fully secure those attacks from happening. An attack is inevitable especially with Palestine obtaining the Gaza Strip and will therefore be used as leverage by Israel to take back the land and adhere from giving any more. 3) Achieving peace is a realistic goal but one which needs to be readily discussed by the international community. Israel and Palestine are both making demands that as of now might not be achievable. Israel wants the attacks to stop and Palestine wants more territory and resources which the PIPP treaty addresses. However one important issue that is not included in the treaty is the education that must be given to both the Palestine and Israeli people's about each other and programs to promote peace between the two. If both countries neglect to educate their citizens about each other then the hatred will remain alive in both countries. Although the flame of hate can never fully be extinguished, through education the majority of it can. Also Israel needs to not have any control over the government and the international community should establish human rights that are agreed upon by the international community. Overall with TIME and the aid of the international community peace can be achieved but it will take a long amount of time to restore the damage that has been done. 4) Palestine will become a state in a long duration of time after Israel and Palestine have agreed upon a peace plan. It will take years for this process to be complete and even more so for Palestine to become a state. There is no estimate of an actual year but it can be said that with time and hard work Palestine will be it's own individual state. 5) Some of the issues that have not been addressed are the education and human rights of both the Palestinian and Israeli people, the distribution of resources, the promotion of peace, the establishment of police forces in Palestine to enforce punishment and authority and the fact that no matter how much the Palestinian government tries they will never possess complete control over the actions of their citizens. Many more issues need to be addressed along side these but with the help of the international community hopefully these will be discussed. Monday, October 27th 2003 - 09:34:18 AM

Jimmy, Shaleen -North Korea believes that this peace treaty will last if every country does not break the rules and regulations. In order for keep the peace to maintain every country should take a part. Yes, i know it sound very surprising that North Korea is speaking like this even thought we are a communist country and also because of our past. But we as a country are willing to change for everyones best interest. Even though this is a short term agreement it will become long term in the end -We believe that the peace treaty will fail if Isreal and Palestine do not put aside the build up of conflicts and see the whoole picture. In the long run we hope that everyone will get what they were asking for. Some countries may think that the peace treaty will not work, but in our best interest we will make it work, no matter what the consequences it will be. -At first the goals we not realistic, it seemed to unreal, but when talks started to circulate in how every thing was going to happen, it made a difference. As you know North Korea is not really invovled in the conflict between Isreal and Palestine, but we chose to join the agreement for our benifit as well as the worlds. -We believe that it will take Palestine 2 years or more to bcome an actual states. Every thing is in a working process!!! -We believe that the issue concerning the Asian Alliance were not properly dicusses. Most international countries were complaining about how the Asian Alliance was basically ¡°not important,¡± we believed that they had many good choices in helping toward the conflict, but their words were turned around, and everything about them became a misunderstanind Thank You Monday, October 27th 2003 - 12:32:17 AM

Maestro [e] Here we go! 1 - Well, the only peace treaty I know of presently is the PIPP (Palestine-Israel Peace Process), and well, honestly, it's a momentary step towards peace, however, I don't believe it'll actually last! Yes, Israel will return a piece of the Gaza strip, but Palestinian extremist groups will continue to suicide bomb, and create more terrorist attacks. Things like this take time...they're "simple", but it's a mindset that these people have been living for a LONG time! The whole cycle of both Israel and Palestine not willing to budge on their positions will continue, creating violence again! Oh look, have we seen this before somewhere?! Like I said, cycle. 2 - So, bluntly: there's no way this treaty's gonna work! It's going to fail; it's just a matter of how many hours/days/weeks it lasts for (if even a week!). One of the major reasons why it will fail is because there is at least generations (both Palestinians and Israelis) who hold/held grudges, and are/were unable to believe in co-existence. So, in order for it to work, the younger generation needs to be educated about how wrong the previous generations were and that co-existence is possible; in essence, completely forget about everyone but the children! This takes time, and over a period of a "few months" for Palestinian authority to take control of extreme groups without any type of militia, or anything, it's very difficult to view the plan as a realistic one! Yes, international forces are in there mediating, and guarding borders, but some Palestinian extremists might seem to think of it as an intrusion: "it's not your conflict...back off!" There are many issues that aren't even discussed in the treaty that are very important; economics, trade, government or authority in Palestine...so many vital things! 3 - I don't think it is unrealistic to think of Palestine as a state, however, I think that some issues surrounding this goal are unrealistic. Geographically, Palestinian territory is spread out throughout Israel, and to break-up a country in such an awkward way is very trying, and perhaps in one way, asking for another country (any country, not just Palestine) to invade and take possession. Also, in order to go about getting a Palestinian state, Israelis AND Palestinians need to realize that a) the other race DOES exist, and that b) coexistence IS truly possible. This needs to be implemented in education, in the media, and in pretty much everything! Both Israel and Palestine need to realize that they can't just not budge on their positions, but they both need to be willing to give a little, take a little, etc, etc, because then, we will have two sides who are open-minded, able to learn from the past, not forget it, but not to live in the past at the same time. 4 - Truly, I don't see any way that Israel will allow Palestine to be an established state until the "terrorism", suicide bombs (whatever you wanna call it) ceases, or is almost non-existent. This is going to take time, and it's not going to take 6 mos, but it will take longer...my guess, 2 years to establish peace...and then once peace talks begin...and the final details...legalities...little bickerings in between...from start to finish...if both sides are truly focused and gung-ho for peace...I don't see why it wouldn't take...7 years. It's possible...but is it actually probable? We'll see... 5 - Other issues: Palestine - establishing an economy, trading partners, allies (well, that's already partially established, but what about an alliance b/w Israel and Palestine?!), an education system, possibility special Israeli communities within Palestinian borders Israel - how they will/will not trade with Palestine, alliances, change in education (perhaps), possibility of special Palestinian communities within Israeli borders There are more, but those are all I can come up with presently! Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 11:05:40 PM

Rosita & Co. No, the peace treaty will definitely not last because: 1. Terms of the treaty are too demanding of land, insensitive to distinct cultures, and negligent of the roots of reasons why the peoples are so aggravated and determined to fight. 2. The world hegemony, United States, is taking the Israelis¡¦ side on the issue, thus creating a threat to the Palestinians. When either side is feeling threatened, it is difficult to have both sides sit down and discuss calmly for peace. The peace treaty agreed upon as a result of the Canadian led peace conference is merely a temporary tool to lighten the pressure set upon Israel and Palestine. 3. The time frame that is laid out by the treaty is much too tight. The roots of hatred between the two countries date back way before our current civilization of the political world. It is unrealistic to expect dramatic progress towards peace in a couple of months or even years. Currently involved countries will soon realize this as they find themselves falling more and more behind the supposed schedule towards peace, and as a result give up on the treaty. Yes, the peace treaty will fail because: 1. The leaders of Israel and Palestine are still not determined to attain peace for the human race, but instead, are still violently fighting for individual victories. 2. The leaders of Israel and Palestine are evidently taking tentative attitudes towards the peace treaty. They themselves do not have faith in this prototype for peace, and they are the roots of the conflict. Regardless of how powerful, democratic, and clever their allies may be, if those directly involved are still looking to serve their own interests instead of the commonly wanted peace, then the amount of peace that can be actually achieved if any, will be very limited. 3. All the reasons why the treaty will not last. Yes, the ultimate goal for achieving peace is realistic. The specific terms of the treaty are still unclear to India, but from what India has been able to gather, they seem reasonable. Although it does seem unrealistic for Israel to take the initiative to give up land (which also risks in sending the wrong message that they are giving into terrorism); initiative is the first step that must be taken. Therefore; the treaty is realistic as a positive step towards peace, but it is the peoples of the two nations in the real world that are being unrealistic. They are hoping that the opposite side will cave into acts of terrorism or powerful allies, instead of initiating peace. It will take Palestine decades to build its own state systems. India¡¦s guess would be thirty years; similar to the amount of time it took Germany to rebuild its forces after the entire state was shattered as a result of WWI. Issues not discussed: 1. Age of the government/leaders of Israel and Palestine. The leaders of the two nations are both elderly and ancient in their train of thought. They hold stubborn ideas that will not compromise. 2. The construction of the wall surrounding Israel. Even if the Israel government agrees to cease construction, are they willing to tear their own work down? 3. Future friendly relations between Israel and Palestine. The two nations are less likely to attack each other if they are dependent of each other on a resource. Trades between the two should be established to initiate good relations. 4. Sovereignty of the two states. After Palestine retrieves land and identity as an independent state, will all hate towards the Jewish religion cease? Will the Israelis not hold a grudge against the Palestinians and attack the Muslim religion? Is the complete freedom of religion clearly stated as a term in the peace treaty? Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 10:27:27 PM

Mosaic [e] China believes that the Peace Treaty will not last. Based on the conditions of the Treaty, Israel is to give half of the Gaza Strip to Palestine and if during that period of 2 to 3 months, there is no terrorist attack from Palestine, Israel will give the entire Gaza Strip back. The treaty also states that both sides are to stop their terrorist attacks. However, the Treaty did not outline at all how to go about stopping the attacks. It should be noted that these terrorist attacks could not be stopped in a day, that it takes the cooperation of the government and its people. It is not an easy task, but a process that will take time. As China had proposed in our peace discussion earlier that the governments of Israel and Palestine should increase communication and meetings with each other, acting as a role model to its citizens, and then progressively educating its people. Since the treaty is providing with short-term solutions, it will fail. The goals are not realistic because most countries would not want to be involved military wise. China believes that it will take a long time for Palestine to become a state. Looking at the Oslo Accord and the different attempts countries have implemented, there is no perfect solution. The world is still young and we are still learning how to deal with this issue. By learning from our mistakes and seeing the loopholes in the different solutions from the past, we will eventually reach the ‘ideal’ solution. However, we should remember, although a peace plan is reached, it does not mean that Palestine is a state. A state is “a political entity possessing determined territory, permanent population, active government, and sovereign recognition by other states” which is also referring to the ‘governing element of society’. It takes years to build a state system and we can see this as an example of the War on Iraq in which the Bush Administration goes into Iraq, hoping to instill democracy in the blink of an eye. Israel has resources, such as oil, that the US wants. On the other hand, Israel is too weak a state to go against the US. Conversely, it is benefiting from the help of the US on this conflict. As long as the US and Israel maintain good relations and are dependent on each other, in which the US supports Israel, Palestine will not become a state. China believes that unless another superpower is to replace a fallen US, will Palestine ever rise because Israel will lose its imperative support. The issues that were not discussed at the open debate were the security wall dilemma and the steps needed to amend the Treaty. I think this is due to the shortened period since we have not touched the main issues of this conflict yet. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 10:23:08 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli 1. NO. The peace treaty called PIPP, although very appealing will not last as the conditions outlined are extremely demanding. The treaty asks for Palestine to demonstrate it has taken steps to stop all terrorist attacks in and from the Northern part of the Gaza Strip. The treaty asks Palestine to act against rebel groups in a short period of time. Stopping terrorism takes logistics, and logistics take time to establish. Palestine is not provided with enough time to establish logistics which could stop terrorists. This lack of time will create a dilemma for Palestine as it won’t be able to achieve Israel’s demand to stop terrorism. Israel as a result will claim Palestine is not interested in peace. The treaty will be dismantled, and the cycle of violence will continue. 2. NO. As stated above, the peace proposal is bound to fail because of it’s several shortcomings. Israel asks Palestine to stop all forms of terrorism, a task even the middle east’s largest military – Israel - could not do. When a powerful military fails to stop terrorism, a powerless and stateless people are bound to fail as well. The PIPP, has handed over a small portion of the Gaza Strip for Palestinians to govern, and demonstrate their commitment to peace. Israel has yet to discuss the fate of Palestinian territory, if Palestine fails to stop terrorist attacks with the little tools it has. There is a possibility Israel will use Palestine’s failure to stop terrorism as an excuse to establish more settlements in Palestinian territory, and expand its territory as it has done with the building of it’s wall. Israel’s ignorance has left it to put the burden of peace on Palestine. Israel has yet to learn Palestine is not a state, and lacks in the tools to pursue peace. Unlike Palestine, Israel is a state, and has been one from 1948. Israel has the tools to both create peace, and destroy it. Unfortunately, Israel has used it’s power to oppress Palestinians - not free them. 3. YES. Achieving peace is a realistic goal, but the path to it is unrealistic. Both Palestinians and Israelis have a difficult time understanding each other’s requirements. Israel fails to recognize it has oppressed the Palestinians, and Palestine fails to realize the only way to negotiate with Israel is to keep firm on it’s demands. Israel attacks and humiliates Palestinians on a daily basis but receives no condemnation for it’s actions (like similar states have). Palestine has yet to decide what it wants, and changes it’s demands as it wants – ignoring the fact Israel has rightfully become impatient. Both Israel and Palestine must focus on each other’s demands to pursue peace. Once both sides have educated themselves, and their people – peace will come. Stopping terrorism will not provide peace in the long term as ignorance will continue to exist. The only solution is to educate the people – once educated, terrorism and oppression will stop, and peace will take it’s place. 4. Creating a state takes several years, if not decades. The process takes longer when conflicts exist around it. Once Israel and Palestine have agreed on a peace plan a state can be created within years, but it would be rushed and not worthy. Instead, Palestinians should be allowed to govern themselves with international support and monitoring for a transitional period. Once a legitimate state has been created which is both economically and politically able to exist, total power should be handed over to Palestinians. Once peace is achieved, we believe this process will take about 20 years. 5. Issues relating to Israel and Palestine have been rarely discussed. Countries have taken these open meetings as a medium to create new wars. Countries such as China, and Canada have routinely used meetings to talk about personal issues and have ignored the peace process in it’s entirety. Several countries have yet to even mention Palestine or Israel in their dialogues. Issues relating to Palestine and Israel which failed to be mentioned are: - Palestine is unable to stop terrorism. To stop terrorism, Palestine needs logistics which it does not have. - Steps needed to achieve peace. Stopping terrorism will not establish peace. Education will. - The possibility of new leaders for both Israel and Palestine (considering both Sharon and Arafat have yet to commit to peace). - Distribution of resources. Palestinians currently live without many vital resources (utilities). - Compensation for victims of Israeli aggression, and rebuilding of Palestinian ministries. - Input from Arab states is necessary to ensure lasting peace. By discussing the above issues, other issues would arise. Unfortunately this was a simulation, and provided us with insufficient time to create a realistic “road map to peace”. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 06:58:18 PM

Israeli Leaders Although we are still hopeful and faithful, with all respect we think the peace treaty (the PIPP) may only last temporarily. The debate on Thursday made this fairly clear and we are deeply concerned and saddened that yet again peace may not be fully attained. We feel this way simply because no matter how much land Israel gives to Palestine, Palestine appears to always be yearning for more. It seems that Palestine and its allies will never be satisfied, thus causing the conflict between Israel and Palestine to persist. On Monday the PIPP had a signed and written contract that was supposed to lead to peace but the next day Palestine decided to betray the agreement by declaring harsh statements against both the peace plan and Israel. Palestine flipped the tables by saying that instead of Palestine removing its terrorists (like the PIPP contract stated), they want Israel to remove our military forces out of Palestine first. This directly contradicted what was written in the previous treaty. However, although Palestine is getting its back up regarding the PIPP progression, we as Israel still have some hope that Palestine will one way or another stick with the plan and allow peace to finally cross the thresholds of our land. It should be fresh in everyone’s minds that Israel has only been an independent state for approximately 50 years. So there should be great hope that in spite of the long process, progress is being made for lasting peace. We as Israel also have a certain amount of faith in that the peace treaty will not fail but will pass the test of peace. Even if it’s temporary peace we do believe that peace can somehow be attained. Nevertheless, once again we as Israel must state that now peace lies mainly in the hands of Palestine and its people. If the terrorism discontinues, then we as Israel will give Palestine some land, thus causing a big portion of peace being reached. As long as Palestine returns to their optimistic attitudes that they had at the peace conference on Monday, the PIPP can be fully established and an aspect of peace can graciously fill the air. But if Palestine continues to act with arrogance, stubbornness, and hostility like they acted on Thursday, the PIPP treaty may end up being worthless and Palestine may destroy the process to peace that they’ve seemingly been longing for. We as Israel feel that the goals to reach peace by establishing treaties like the PIPP are not unrealistic. But in spite of this, we must remind the world that there must be two rational things dealt with first in order to get rid of the roots of the Middle East conflict. First of all we must get rid of the extremists and fanatics that Palestine supports because wiping out the Palestinian terrorists is the first steppingstone towards peace. And second of all we must get rid of the anti-Semitism that still exists in the Arab nations because little Palestinian children are being brainwashed to stereotype and hate all Jews and therefore this conflict is already sadly getting passed on to the new generation. As long as these two problems are recognized and dealt with, the goals that we’ve established can be seen as realistic and attainable. We as Israel feel that Palestine will become a state when the terrorism in Israel comes to a complete stop, thereby allowing Israeli military forces to move out of Palestinian land. We do not know specifically how long it’ll take for Palestine to become a state because it all depends on how willing Palestine is to stop its terrorists from killing innocent Israelis. However, we as Israel believe that it may take a while (maybe even decades) before Palestine gets its act together and decides to do everything it possibly can to stop the terrorism and anti-Semitism. The main issue that we forgot to discuss that should have been discussed during the debate was the PIPP treaties. We forgot to converse and finalize details regarding which countries were willing to send troops in to guard the borders between Palestine and Israel and to stop any terrorists from crossing the border. We as Israel feel that the whole ‘mediator’ procedure will help immensely in the road to peace and so we are concerned with the fact that the details of this issue were not mentioned or discussed much during the debate. As well, another significant issue that wasn’t discussed during the debate was the issue of Palestine and Syria turning their backs on the PIPP treaties by demanding for Israel to take out our military first before they co-operate with the treaties. We as Israel did not get a chance to bring up this issue and therefore did not get a chance to defend ourselves regarding this issue. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 04:39:50 PM

Nkosi & Kami [e] This is the official Japanese final post: -Will the peace treaty last? Why? -Will the peace treaty fail? Why? -Are the goals realistic? -How long do you think it will take Palestine to become a state? -What issues were not discussed today at the open debate that should have been discussed? -No, as long as we do not go into the fundamentals of the problems, it can only serve as a short term solution. Like we have brought out on Thursday, we cannot occupy Israeli and Palestinian border for ever, and it will only be a matter of time before violence start again (between Israel and Palestine or against International forces). Fundamental changes within both nations must take place while the international forces are there and while the process of Israel withdraws from Gaza Strip is taking place, or else the peace won't be long living. -Failure of this treaty in the long run can only be prevented if serious reform takes place in both Israel and Palestine. Like the answer to the first question, this treaty is short term solution, and should be viewed as first step to peace. If you want to solve a problem completely, you need to address the root of the problem, not the only the problem itself. -The goals of the Canadian peace conference is not very realistic in solving the problem completely, but achievable. To station UN or PIPP troops on Israeli-Palestinian boarders can hopefully help maintain stability while the Palestinian government gets Gaza Strip back, forming it's own government and show the world that it can be responsible. The Palestinian Authority, however, don¡¦t have control over other terrorist organizations such as Hamas, and it will only take one of these terrorist to ruin everything, that's why the treaty is risky; furthermore, how long will the countries commits their troops to stay there, especially if violence starts again, is also another undiscussed factor. Since our goal was to have peace now, set the foundation of permanent peace, so I think it is good enough for now, but more realistic goals must be set to ensure long term peace. -It can take just a few years to have international community to view and recognise Palestine as a state; however, it will take decades for Palestine to be a true independent state (i.e., it¡¦s own military, government infrastructure, economically independent from Israel and have it¡¦s own industries etc.), since it lacks all these things right now, and these things can't just pop up over night. - I think a lot was not discussed in class during the debate. I admires American¡¦s optimistic attitude toward the whole peace process, and we should forget all about the past for the plan to work. Let Israelis forget about holocaust Arabic aggression since 1948 and Palestinians forget about Israel¡¦s occupation of Gaza strip and West bank. After they forget all those unhappy events, we can get true peace. Yeah, it will take like hundred of years for them to completely forget about it, if they are willing to. Are we willing to station our troops there for the next 100 years? So instead of let them forget the past naturally, we should concentrate on what they can do NOW to help heal the wound. I think more important issues such as how exactly Israel will give Palestine full authority and economic freedom (like let Palestinian businesses take control of the economical situation in Palestine, and give them assistance when necessary instead of just dominate the entire region economically.), access to precious natural resources such as water or arable land (so far, Palestine only have West Bank and Gaza strip, which is 22% of the land and separated by Israel, and I doubt they will get anymore). The split of Jerusalem will be a big problem too, since both religions in the region claim it to be holy, so both side need to be willing to compromise on that issue. Palestinian and the rest of the Arab world must recognise Israel as a legitimate government, respect their existence and reform their education system accordingly. Israel is already there, it is a fact that you can¡¦t change so we should¡¦ve debated on how should Arabs reform their way of thinking in order to maintain long term peace. Finally, suppression of extremist groups on both sides is very important too. It may sound against human rights but we should¡¦ve discussed how both sides must make the extremist within their nation happy about the new arrangement by means of anything necessary. Palestine and rest of Arab world need to be tougher on Hamas and other terrorists, because they are causing problems for Arab country as well. Israel should make the Zionist extremist be happy about the land and recognition that they have now or will have in the future, and stop viewing all Arab as potential enemy. Overall, there are many more important issues that we should¡¦ve brought up but never did because of lack of time, and these issues will affect how realistic of our peace plan is. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 01:46:19 PM

Bittersweet [e] Guys grow up. The Simulation is pretty much over. Tomorrow you have a post due! WORK ON IT! Judging from some of your marks you really need to. As for tomorrow we will do our presentation and then the class will have an open DISCUSSION (NOT debate) on what should be addressed in our peace plan. As for 'Hamas' and 'Bounty Hunter' Melnyk is looking up your IP addys and will take off marks for you not telling us your real name (if you are in our class). Japan, take a gander at Hamas' email addy: b_dynes? i only know one b. dynes and he's not in our class so relax. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 07:26:38 AM

Kami LOL. Us? Ashamed? What do we get from this? Absoultely nothing. Have you even bother to think about this yet? For this, we are just sending soldiers to get killed by a 15 year old with a suiside belt? You should be ashamed that you think Japan has this much importance in the world. Although since you do, the Japan Empire has one of the most elite counter-terrorist force in the world, which is at the same rank as the German G2N9, France's GIGN. With a economic stronghold in the world, the United States of America dare not start war with Japan, because of economic reasons and they have no reason to start war. We wish to be partners with the US. Although, if the US does not comply with there own constitution, having the most basic rights. Free Speach. Then we believe that the US will fail in our Simulation. Another note, Since the Japan JFA force and we have the most hightech counter-terrorism in the world. We can say that the Terrorist team known as hamas. Is complete BS. On the next note, Our nation will take up nuclear arms to defend ourselves against the state of North Korea. Since our nation has not signed any treaty with North Korea and US. Then this treaty does not exist. We will take up nuclear arms if a deal has been done with the United States, since the United States fails to realise that Japan is the only country in the middle of this conflict. Next note. The One. How did you do it? Tell me at school Monday. I know who you are. Terrorist Suscide bombers might exist in your nation. Not ours. We would like to say, that you are complete BS. And the final note. Do you know why terrorism exists? Do you have a purpose going against Japan? Arabs hate US and Israel because they do. You can't call for Jihad, because of what holy war? Have we invaded your land? No. If you look at terrorism through out the world. You can see there is a reason why they occur. Osama Bin Laden destroyed the Twin Towers because he + Al Qudea belived that US troops should be pulled out of Saudi Arabia. Bombing in Israel/Palistine occur, because there is a great hatred agaisnt each other. Now, Is there any reason why Japan would get attacked? No? Ok then. Japan is a country which can stand on it's own feet. If you have seen our webpage. You would have noticed that the US military is moving out of Japan, and the US wants Japan to be in the UN Security Council. Our Prioritys is to help our country before helping others. This is why the plan will fail. All countries failed to realise that, they are representitives of their people of their country. Oh man. LOL. I can't wait until Monday. When the controllers tell me who you (Hamas) are. I'm just going to laugh because Politically. You have been destroyed. ^-^ On the final notice. We are not ashamed of what we have done. We are damn proud of it, and we are damn proud of our own opinion. Our International Involvement was infact key to the "US" Claim that they made our Operation. Operation Nkosi / Kami. The Simulation is done for Japan on this board. So, we will be waiting for Hamas's response in the debriefing. We'll everyone at the "Peace" Plan. Sunday, October 26th 2003 - 01:01:28 AM

Bounty Hunter objective: seek out the one known as "The One" Friday, October 24th 2003 - 05:54:17 PM

The One Well then, it seems as though I won't even have to initiate the destruction of Israel myself if another force has already presented itself to do so for me. Friday, October 24th 2003 - 11:38:10 AM

The One Well then, it seems I won't even have to initiate the destruction of Israel if another force is planning to do it for me. Friday, October 24th 2003 - 11:36:08 AM

Hamas [e] We the members of Hamas deplore the banter Israel has pontificated about their peace plans. There will be no peace until the Israeli nation is nothing more than a burning pile of rubble. As a foward notice we must warn all nations that terrorist attacks will be increased. A special notice goes out to Japan you should be punished for the insolence you have displayed toward the international community. An ancient Japenese proverb goes "Birds don't nest in bare trees" when Hamas is finished with Japan there will not be birds let alone trees for centuries. Friday, October 24th 2003 - 11:26:40 AM

Bittersweet [e] This is the last of the three pre-described posts. This deals with what happened today, tomorrow and the past few days. In the posts, you must answer the following: -Will the peace treaty last? Why? -Will the peace treaty fail? Why? -Are the goals realistic? -How long do you think it will take Palestine to become a state? -What issues were not discussed today at the open debate that should have been discussed? This post is due Monday, October 27 BEFORE politics class. Lateness will not be accepted! Answer all the questions and you should get a good mark. If there are any questions you can email Tracy or Samreen by clicking on the underlined "[e]" at the corner of this box (beside the name Bittersweet). Bounty Hunter, please reveal your identity through email. Thursday, October 23rd 2003 - 04:58:15 PM

Administrator Friday's Peace Plan. Tomorrow our goal as an international community is to seek and develop a workable peace plan for Israel, Palestine and the Middle East. Please study the following failed Peace Plans: Oslo Accord of 1993 http://www.iap.org/oslo.htm Road Map to Peace http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1410.shtml How can peace be attained in the Middle East? Lets strive for this goal tomorrow. MM Thursday, October 23rd 2003 - 04:45:53 PM

Silent Assassin Discovered...sorry I had 4 exams this week. Hope your peace conference went well. I'm off to get some much deserved sleep. Regards Thursday, October 23rd 2003 - 02:46:56 PM

Bittersweet [e] bounty hunter needs to email one of us their real name. but on another note, to those who care: guess who the minister of security is for yrpc this year?? ME!! woo-hoo! Thursday, October 23rd 2003 - 09:19:16 AM

Bounty Hunter objective was never to surpress them Thursday, October 23rd 2003 - 08:58:02 AM

Deep Throat Is that enough to supress the Silent Assassins? If so, that was just weak. Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 11:09:09 PM

Bounty Hunter objective complete: silent assassins disovered Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 07:08:15 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli The Palestinian Authority looks forward to meeting Israel and it's companion, USA Today. Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 06:37:10 PM

Nkosi--Japan [e] Japan was honoured to participate in the conference that marked the first step to peace in Israel and Palestine. However, Japanese Emperor is willing to bet money that two years is not enough for both side to solve their problem fundamentally, which is essential to achieve long term peace. How will Palestinian authority make it's people stop hating Israel within two years? And how will Israelis let the palestinians own all the shops in Palestine within two years? There are many issues that we feel that still need to be discussed (eg, economics), that's why we wanted to hold another peace conference, where we can take the solution of the Canadian conference a step further and make it more realistic. However, due to lack of time, our request to hold a peace conference was denied, and so I hope in tomorrow's debate, we can discuss the problems more thoroughly and realistically. ~~Best of luck to everyone tomorrow~~ Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 06:04:21 PM

Bittersweet [e] About the Open Debate Thursday: 11:05 the debate will begin; you will be asked to sit where we put you; opening statements from countries who wish to say something (it's recommended that the key players do say something RELEVANT about how they feel things are going or if they have any "beefs" with anyone; there are no rebuttals to opening statements, wait till they are over) 11:10 Opening statements will be over and you may present issues you wish to discuss, if no issues are presented we will present an issue. At this point you may speak freely at your own discretion, but if things get out of hand then we will intervene in order to have a more efficient debate. 11:40 Closing statements Terms Controllers will use: PC : Politically Correct, meaning whatever you have just said was very offensive (cough* Carter or DC) Reality Check: meaning that whatever you have just said is unrealistic unless you have documented proof that its true Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 04:58:17 PM

eyes and ears Silent assasin: just stop talking. No one really cares what you have to say. Why dont you go and play with kids your own age? Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 03:58:43 PM

Bets on the one! Deep Throat I bet it's Sean from Saudi Arabia. Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 12:44:59 AM

The One Well as amusing as this has been to watch, I do have to say what an amazing waste of time you've all spent discussing between each other yet managing to accomplish 0. Lets take a look at what you achieved with this treaty that was signed. Now you say this is a stepping stone to achieving the piece that we all wish to obtain, yet your half completed treaty currently causes more problems than it solves ie, disturbing the peace of both the israelites and the Palastinians. It's time to take matters into one's hands and simple wipe away Israel from existance. There will be nothing left of Israel but a burning crater. Only through the removal of a side can harmony be obtained, besides even your ideas of peace come with casualties, yet present more problems in the end that will later have to be delt with, while my plan will leave nothing but joy in the middle east. True peace can never be obtained through simple discussion, as proven in yesterday's simulation, it is all just a matter of time. Wednesday, October 22nd 2003 - 12:07:35 AM

north korea i would just like to say that if the whole nukes matter involving north korea and the united states is going to get in the way of things that north korea is willing to give them up. however we do not wish to give them up for nothing, we ask for no trade barriers between the united states and north korea helping to better develop and establish the failing economic state of north korea. we are happy to say from the north korean side that an agreement has been struck between the two parties involving just those two factors (nukes and trade). Tuesday, October 21st 2003 - 06:47:51 PM

Silent Assassins The peace conference is coming. Beware. All those that oppose the cause of the Palestinians can consider themselves targets for attacks. The peace conference is simply a facade. Nothing will be resolved, Israel will maintain its stubborn stance. The United States will continue to terrorize the world with its tyranny. Israel will continue to kill hundreds of innocent Palestinian civilians. We will fight back, our voice will be heard. Through blood our cause will be realized. Tuesday, October 21st 2003 - 03:38:37 AM

Adrian [e] Palastine, the last thing we need are negative words. We are comited to peace. unfortunatly, the talks were cut short due to the end of class, so we could not go into great detail about all of the items that you have named, although they are important to us. You also said that, "There have been many resolutions in the past, all of them failures at the hand of Israel. " i have reason to believe, that not all have been Israeli fault. An example to this could be the failure of the "Road map" to peace initiated by the U.S. "The suicide bombing that killed 20 Tuesday night in Jerusalem and the retaliation by Israeli forces Thursday that left a senior leader of the militant group Hamas dead appear to mark a return to the cycle of violence" This is a quote i got from USA Today, and here is the link :http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-08-21-mideast-q-a_x.htm Yes, i understand that Israel has not been the greatest at holding their word, neither has Palastine as noted by this quote.I just thought you should know, so that you dont lay blame, where it is NOT due. This is to deepthrought: we have discussed the wall surounding the area of the westbank, and we have decided that construction will cease imediatly. The mass amounts of people that will be protesting, well on the Israeli side of the border, they are allowed freedom of speech, so we will allow them to protest, but when it comes right down to it, I dont believe that these people will be that upset with our decition when they can finally stand at a bus stop without the fear of being blown to pieces. I know there will be extremists on both sides, and each individual government will focus on dealing with these people, and not allow these minorities of people to hurt those who are interested with peace, rather than ego. All in all, i believe that the peace confrance within Canada acomplished alot, and is allowing us to continue on the long, and tedious road towards peace with our 2 countries. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 10:34:34 PM

Mosaic [e] China has expressed (in class today) its willingness to participate in the peacekeeping efforts regarding the Palestinian-Israel issue, depending on the conditions of the treaty. However, Canada does not seem keen, in which the treaty was missing, where Canada said that the media (Meghan) had it and the media said Canada had it. China asked Canada twice whether they had the treaty or not. Until now, China has not seen the conditions on the treaty at all; therefore, China cannot confirm whether to sign. We would like to remind the international community that a country can commit themselves to peacekeeping efforts with or without the treaty, as long as it has the means to attempt peace. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 09:45:42 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli The conference hosted by Canada achieved very little today as it discussed causes of the problem, not the problem itself. Land distribution is not the only problem facing the Palestinians and Israelis. Resources, finances and compensation are all necessary in achieving peace but failed to be discussed in detail. We appreciate Canada's concern about the situation, but remain cautious about Israel's commitment to peace. There have been many resolutions in the past, all of them failures at the hand of Israel. The Palestinian Authority welcomes the plan, and will do everything in it's ability to fulfill it. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 07:20:08 PM

Deep Throat Well done. IS everyone happy. You have a piece of paper that says you want peace. Now. How about that huge wall? Has anyone thought about that yet? Has anyone thought about the massive amount of people which would probably be protesting against this. No? .. I guess your not out of the woods yet. Just bringing up important facts the counties of the world need to think about. Reminder - Not all countries have signed the treaty yet. Another note. N. Korea finished their 5-step proposal at the end of class. Why does it say 12:xx on their post. Seems like the controllers are throwing off the times. It's around a hour off. "Grab your guns boys and girls, we are going to war!" Monday, October 20th 2003 - 07:06:19 PM

Jimmy and Shaleen -Isreal will need to give up their land that they are occupying right now, for eample the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, and Golan Height -Palestine will need to give up terrorist groups and recognize Israel -Give up West Bank, Gaza Strip, Golan Height -Violence must stop -Recognize each other as states as well as nations -Let everyone have an important role other than excluded other countries -Terrorism should be eliminated -We are willing to give up our Nuclear Weapons Monday, October 20th 2003 - 12:28:55 PM

Tofu i just have to make a correction on our first post It should be ...." The governement is against the Palestine side, but the citizens are on the Palestine side" that is all Monday, October 20th 2003 - 12:08:15 PM

Syria Israel needs to: - remove all military forces from Palestine, in order to obtain peace, and show good will to Palestine, proving their priority IS peace - around the wall, allow neutral troops (or the UN, b/c it's in their sanction) to control the area, in order to prevent any potential violent outbreaks, whether it's government allowed or not - break down the wall! That wall is a physical barrier that mentally stops people from wanting to achieve peace - allow Palestine to become a separate state, giving them the ability to govern themselves and be independent - keep an open mind about Palestine and don't think everything they say is wrong: BE OPTIMISTIC FOR ONCE! - promote the idea that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace: it is possible Palestine needs to: - stop suicide bombers, in order to show good faith for peace - keep an open mind about Israel and their thoughts, be open to suggestions and co-operation will help to solve this problem! - promote the idea that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace: not only one side can do this, both Israel and Palestine need to do this! Steps to peace: 1 - all violent acts (regardless of if the government approves them or not), MUST STOP! If peace is truly the goal, then in good faith of each other, all countries must call a ceasefire and remove all military from the other party's land 2 - both Israel and Palestine MUST be willing to give up certain things (discussable), and MUST respect the fact that they both have their own beliefs, and not make religion a deciding factor of peace 3 - peace conferences must be taken seriously and held in neutral countries 4 - the international community should put pressure on both countries (positive pressure) to keep both parties accountable to the "road map to peace" 5 - after treaty is signed put a certain "probation" period for both countries, where should anything occur that violates the treaty, gives the UN permission to mediate and stop all acts of violence/acts of violation to the treaty 6 - both parties are going to need to be able to live with each other in peace, and be able to support each other, regardless of what happens (split, or not) economically and as countries of peace Syria can provide assistance to all countries. Yes, we are very pro-Arab, however, we can put pasts behind us, and allow for peace to be in the forefront of everything...we will put our suicide bombers on hold (seeing as there haven't been any recently!), however, if there are any more air strikes, or acts of violence towards Syria from Israel (or any other country for that matter)...we will have to evaluate our situation more closely, and especially our international relationships, should other countries support the strike. A word from our sponsor: "It's all about the lovin'" Monday, October 20th 2003 - 11:51:39 AM

Undisclosed Vladamir and company...your decision to not attend today's peace conference is childish, your opinions on peace can not be expressed and you are achieving nothing. Loyalty? admirable-yes, but really...you and your allies just dont have any balls...hmm I guess that's why you and your allies should cuddle up in your fur wear...if you know what I'm sayin Monday, October 20th 2003 - 11:49:48 AM

Syria First off, look, Canada organized the Peace conference; yes, they're a big country with a whole lot of peace keeping, so let them do they're thing: Peace keep! Also, just because you weren't invited doesn't mean you aren't "important", but it just means that Canada made a call to say that there are certain countries that need to work out certain issues, so just lay off, and you can discuss whatever you need/want to discuss during the peace conference. Best of luck to all countries, involved in the peace conference or not. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 11:22:26 AM

Nkosi & Kami Japan will be holding an Offical Peace Conference due to the fact that Canada seems to be in a highly hostile situation against the Asian Pact. We believe that Canada seems to be unfit upon this issue because of the hostile factions against their country. Ex. Moasic, Deep Throat, Eyes and Ears, Silent Assassin. Other reasons why we believe that this Peace Conference may not work is because Canada failed to realise a very powerful and rich country within the middle east. Saudi Arabia. Since Saudi Arabia is not involved in this Peace Conference, the peace conference will be impossible to obtain peace within the middle east. Although, if all countries worldwide do not attend the our peace conference. We will be sorry to inform the world that we will be canceling our peace conference. At our peace conference we would like one representitive from each country to be attending. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 10:36:01 AM

~Steph & Daniele~ [e] Great Britain Steps that Israel may make in order to obtain peace: 1)Allow the Palestinian people to govern themselves peacefully 2)Split some of their resources appropriately 3)Negotiate with Palestine and give up some territory 4)Remove military forces from West Bank and Gaza 5)Promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians 6)Consider Palestine an ally and contribute to it economically, politically and socially 7)Weapons are to be given to the UN 8)Allow other countries to mediate for the Israel and Palestine countries 9)The wall is to be controlled and actions pertaining to the wall are to be enforced by international forces and security 10) Human rights are to be evaluated and re-established in Israel Steps that Palestine may make in order to achieve peace: 1)Enforce punishment onto citizens who deliberately attack or kill Israeli citizens 2)Protect Israel and consider it an ally politically, economically and socially 3)Promote peace between Israelis and Palestinians 4)Negotiate reasonably with the Israel 5)Share resources with Israel appropriately 6)Weapons are to be given to the UN 7)Allow other countries to mediate for the Israel and Palestine countries 8)Human rights are to be establied in Palestine Great Britain will aid in obtaining peace by the following methods: 1)Israel must remove military forces that are occupying Palestine immediately 2)Negotiations must begin with Israel and Palestine with other countries of the international community present 3)Economic aid must be given to both Israel and Palestine from the international community 4)Promotion of peace between the two countries must be advertised in both countries 5)Weapons must be given to the UN 6)Peace treaties must be negotiated and signed with the international community present Overall Great Britain offers itself and devotes itself completely to aiding in the peace process between Israel and Palestine. We will offer our support economically as well as with representatives from our country present at Israel/Palestine negotiations. We will act as a mediator between the two countries if necessary and will also ally with the international community to help enforce demands that are agreed upon by the international community. We offer our services and our support is absolute. We hope our country can be of great aid in achieving peace in the Middle East and resolving further conflict. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 09:21:55 AM

Tofu Irasel needs to give up? 1. Israel gives up the concept of the Palestinians as enemies 2. Take out all the troops in the West Bank and Gaaza 3. Give Palestine full authority over Palestine Palestine needs to give up? 1. Give up "Right of Return" areas back to israel 2. Palestinians must recognize that the Israelis are sincere 3. Track down the terrorists 4. No "compensation" for individual Palestinians. Funds are needed to raise up all Palestinians, not just to repay legal injuries 5. contribute to Israel economy Both sides must realize that their greatest desire is to live in peace and harmony with their neighbor Both sides must accept each others religion Hatred is big problem. Both sides must not use hatred as their primary issue. Steps needed to achieve piece? 1. Irseal and Palestine must be willing to negotiate with each other. 2. Stop all movement between Iraseal and Palestine. One suggestion would be to get a country to act as a peacekeeper. This country must have no ties what so ever with these these two sides. This country would serve along side both the Israeli and Palestinian forces. 3. Israelis must take blame for much of the violence against innocent Palestinians 4. Israel acknowledges that the Palestinians were the majority in pre-1948 Palestine and shoulders responsibility for future national development. Undoing the 1948 mistakes, very important. 5. Palestines gives clear proof that the terrorist groups have been eliminated 6. Anew constitution must be written that would establish rights for all citizens regardless of religion. 7. Palestine must establish a democratic government in order for other countries to provide economic help such as the U.S 8.A peace treaty must be signed by both parties Turkey thoroughly believes that a war will eventually break out if action is not taken immediately. We really do not want a war to break out. Therefore, our country will give the two sides its full co-operation by offering economic support and emergecy aid. We will also be at the peace conference and we are positive that Israel and Palestine will work things out. Monday, October 20th 2003 - 09:09:19 AM

Carter [e] Okay, I chewed on it and then I spat it out. You just said a whole lot of NOTHING in that post and pretty much dug yourself into a hole. "Canada needs to buckle down and live up to their name: Peace Keepers. If you are neutral on this issue then why would you not invite Saudi Arabia to the peace conference?" I am living up to the Peace Keeper name because wasn't it Canada who organized this PEACE (notice the emphasis) Conference. That's what I thought. And yes I AM NEUTRAL ON THIS ISSUE; issue being the situation between Palestine and Israel, NOT a relation between Saudi Arabia. What I think is that you need to go back to the desert and meet with your other representative and rethink the ISSUE of this because I'm sorry but you have it all wrong. Congratulations...your a large country and one of the richest in the Middle East, that's just fantastic. Okay so just because you're on Palestine's side means you deserve an invitation....hmm go figure that one EH! You can be on Canada's side if you want, but I'm not so sure if you will be shown the same! "Shame on me!!"....shame ON YOU for being ignorant to the true importance of this matter. And just because you are a large country doesn't mean what you will have to say will be valid or important. Well first of all, you have no idea what is going to happen at the Peace Conference, I am the only one that does, so don't assume things because who said anything about reaching an agreement already. And in honesty, the only countries that really need to be happy with the agreement is Israel and Palestine, sure the other countries do too but NOT nearly as much because this situation is taking place on their land. Now I say CHEW ON THAT AND GO PLAY WITH APU...ALADDIN! Monday, October 20th 2003 - 09:04:29 AM

Mosaic [e] In the name of peace, Israel needs to give up the Palestine territory. Palestine, needs to stop all terrorist acts in the name of peace. Both should take a step back in order to reach a successful resolution at the peace conference. Steps to be taken: 1. Stop all aggression between the Israel and Palestine immediately. 2. Decrease Israel and Palestine’s military weapons at hand in order to ensure the least harmful outcome if there was ever an outbreak of war. 3. Weapons are to be given to the UN in which each country sends a representative to manage the weapons. 4. No country should provide military support to Israel or Palestine because this increases their hatred and causes unnecessary conflict, which is similar to the security dilemma. 5. Mediating countries should help both countries economically; peace brings wealth to a nation. 6. Promote education to its people so that they can keep in touch with the world and settle their hatred. Governments of Israel and Palestine should get together to promote their peace values in hopes to ease the uprising conflict. 7. Israel and Palestine should sign a treaty, both vowing their promises. 8. Every country should attend the peace conference, acting as witnesses to this ceremony of the signing of the treaty. This conflict is a conflict that involves the entire world. We all hope that a good long-term solution is arrived at together. Since we believe in the importance of building a long-term and stable relationship with the international community, China will take on the role similar to a mediator in the Palestinian-Israeli issue. China can provide these types of aid to Israel and Palestine: economic assistance, technological assistance, humanitarian aid, and emergency aid, but not military assistance because China is neutral in this conflict. We will also introduce and promote Microcredit to Israel and Palestine, which will help raise the standard of living of its people. We are always open to negotiations. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 10:30:51 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli 1. Israel is largely in charge of the current turmoil, and refuses to claim responsibility for it’s inhumane actions and disrespect for humanity. The Government of Israel needs to : a) Remove all forces from West Bank and Gaza trip including land separated by building of Israel’s wall. b) Eliminate all settlements within West Bank and Gaza Strip. All settlements remaining would be in control of Palestine. c) Return capital to Tel Aviv. d) Allow Palestinians to govern themselves and provide human rights to Palestinians. e) Provide compensation to displaced families and aid in rebuilding of damaged structures. f) Share resources with Palestinians proportionally. 2. Considering Palestine only asks for 22% of it’s original land, much has been sacrificed. We have sacrificed our land to achieve peace, yet Israel has failed to deliver peace. Amidst this unparalleled sacrifice, Palestinians have devoted their life to achieve peace and will continue to do so. Palestine has very little to offer to the peace process as much has been destroyed by the occupying power. With the few resources left, the Palestinian Authority and the people it represents will : a) Crack down on terrorists (once Israel rebuilds Palestinian policing). b) Contribute to Israel’s economy. c) Refrain from Israeli matters once Palestine is created and compensated for. d) Promote peace between Arabs and Israelis. e) Negotiate future of Jerusalem. f) Protect Israel from any attacks and defend the people of Israel from any aggression. g) Establish programs to promote and brother/sisterhood between Israelis and Palestinians. 3. The Palestinian Authority proposes five steps to aid in achieving peace : - 1.Negotiations must begin immediately between Israel, Palestine and all parties directly involved. - 2.Israel must prove a Palestinian state is to be established(by removing all forces from the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and respecting the rights of Palestinians). - 3.Palestine will seek financial aid to establish a proper policing force to combat terrorism. - 4.Israel will acknowledge crimes against humanity, provide compensation to victims of Israeli aggression and provide finances to Palestinian departments devastated by Israeli recklessness. - 5.Once the above conditions are met, Palestine is to be a viable state. 4. The Palestinian Authority and it’s people are committed to achieving peace like in the past. Palestinians are open to any reasonable peace process. (See Q.2 for more ways in which we can help). Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 10:27:30 PM

Aladdin [e] 1. Isreal needs to be willing to give up some territory and to acknowledge Palestine as a legitimate country. 2. Palestine needs to stop they're terrorist activity and re-evaluate their form of government. 3. Both countries need to acknowledge the need for peace. Need to come to a halt in terrorist activities and allow the appropriate measures to be taken to achieve peace. Both countries have to recognize each other's right to exist. Some extensive peace talks have to result in an agreement put together by all middle eastern countries. Palestine and Isreal need to be aware of the fact that if peace does prevail that there will be changes in they're forms of government. MUST be willing to allow PEACE to occur. 4. First of all, Saudi Arabia needs to be present at the peace conference in order for they're opinion to be heard. When that is achieved, Saudi Arabia will financially aid and facilitate some of the peace process. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 09:53:42 PM

Aladdin [e] Ok, first of all, Canada needs to buckle down and live up to their name: Peace Keepers. If you are neutral on this issue then why would you not invite Saudi Arabia to the peace conference? Please tell me that you are aware of the fact that Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the middle east and one of the largest, not to mention that Saudi Arabia is on Palestine's side as well as Canada. Shame on you!! Since Saudi Arabia is one of the largest countries in the middle east then don't you think that they should have a part in the upcoming peace conference?? Without Saudi Arabia presence and influence at the conference tomorrow, I'd like to know how you're going to reach an agreement that we will all be happy with. Chew on that!!!!! Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 09:36:59 PM

Israeli Leaders Israel is willing to discuss and make concessions regarding settlement territorial rights (i.e. Gaza Strip). We are willing to allow the continuation of Palestinians to do business as well as attend Israeli educational facilities (i.e. universities) in order to show goodwill towards the Palestinians. This is all what we’re willing to sacrifice in the name of peace. Palestine, however, must stop immediately and give up any forms of terrorism including suicide bombers that are usually trained and supported by the Hamas terrorist group. Palestine must also be willing to discuss territorial boundaries and they must be open to making concessions if the offer is fair. The steps that need to be taken first in the process to peace in the Middle East are: 1.) Palestine has to show true evidence that any forms of terrorism have come to a complete stop. 2.) Israel must withdraw their military from any territory occupied by Palestine. 3.) Each nation (Palestine and Israel) must send a leader who is respected and has control of their country’s political affairs in order to discuss a fair and reasonable truce or agreement with respect to the conflict in the Middle East. 4.) If talks stall between the two parties (Palestinians and Israelis) there should be an agreement from the beginning of the peace talks that a moderator will be brought in who has been previously selected by both parties in order to bring about an agreement. The moderator could be for example a representative from the U.N. or a politician/world leader who’s highly respected and recognized for being a peace advocate (i.e. Nelson Mandela). 5.) If both parties obtain an agreement, then the issue should be brought to the U.N., which will help to make sure that the agreement will be totally resolved. 6.) The U.N. should be requested also to provide peace keepers to be present and involved especially in the border areas so that no surprise acts of violence will easily occur. Israel can assist with this process by being open and co-operative. Israel can provide top leadership representatives and if they present openness to having the U.N. play a greater role in reaching a peace agreement in the Middle East, the conflict may be able to be totally deceased and peace may be attained. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 09:10:21 PM

Rosita & Co. Israel needs to give up the restrictions it sets on Palestine¡¦s movement of people and goods. Palestine should be able to develop its own economy and gain its own identity as a country apart from Israel. Palestine needs to give up its stubborn belief in one master religion dominating a large area. Israel should be able to exist while keeping its strong traditional religion(s), which originated from time before Christ, without being threatened with terrorist attacks. Both states must terminate all violence against each other immediately; this would be the most productive step towards peace. Steps towards peace: 1. Israel stops all actions against Palestine that are attempting to counter attack Palestinian terrorist attacks. 2. Israel commits to existing in peace alongside an independent Palestinian state. 3. Palestine terminates all terrorist actions originating from own state, with help from allies and neutral but willing countries. This can only be accomplished through the establishment of security forces and implementing sustainable operations aimed at terminating all terrorist functions. Security forces are to be used in defense only; they will by no means cause threat to neighbouring states or civilians. 4. A confiscation of weapons will take place throughout both countries led by respective governments. 5. Palestine commits to existing in peace alongside a sovereign Israel state with complete freedom of religion. 6. Israel and Palestine are to agree on one or more countries that were active and effective in dissolving the violence between them. These few countries that are agreed upon will serve as mediating countries in the future, which also delivers an alternative before terrorism if peace is once again disrupted by tension. 7. Israel and Palestine, along with the mediating countries will discuss and decide on tentative borders. 8. Israel and Palestine alone will draft and finalize a peace treaty. 9. Palestine begins to establish an effective democratic government with help from other democratic countries. These countries will also take the initiative in building Palestine¡¦s economy by first agreeing to potential trades with Palestine in the future. 10. Israel and Palestine are not to be expected to be the best of friends immediately after tentative peace is restored. Their relations with each other will not be direct and physical. Instead they will mostly relate to each other through participation in common projects led by the mediating countries. India can provide troops to participate in the security force, safe guarding each of the country¡¦s civilians. India is willing to be one of the mediating countries and help both Israel and Palestine with building economies. Strengthening the internal economy will be a common goal of Israel, Palestine and India. India is also willing to offer assistance in forming a Palestinian democratic government. Although India may not be the most advanced in terms of a democratic government, but it is almost certain that India has recently experienced and over come similar issues that the Palestine government will most likely run into. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 08:12:11 PM

Rosita & Co. "Individual liberty and interdependence are both essential for life in society. Only a Robinson Crusoe can afford to be all self-sufficient." --Gandhi Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 08:11:31 PM

Carter [e] Like China is so often doing, thanks for your opinion deep throat. But unless if you have some kind of tie with Saudi Arabia, then you need to get more about the situations before you express your opinions. Maybe Saudi Arabia should have thought about their comments they made to Canada about Canada before they said them, and perhaps an invitation would have been presented to them on Friday. Well, we'll just have to wait and see how the conference goes on Monday won't we...but I'm sure that it will be fine since it is being held by the peace keeping country called Canada and has invited the necessary countries to the conference. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 07:40:41 PM

Carter [e] - What Israel needs to give up in the name of peace - 1) Stop encroachment into palistinian occupied areas. 2) Stop building new jewish settlements in the west bank. - What Palestine needs to give up in the name of peace - 1) Needs to put a hold on terrorist activities. - What steps need to be taken first - 1) Israel needs to instill a immediate moratorium on activity in the west bank. 2) Palestine and Israel need to talk and negotiate whether it is leaders to leaders or through a neutral country because in order for peace to happen, both the side of Israel and Palestine needs to be known. 3) Withdrawl of Israeli forces in Palestinian territories. 4) Drafts of Peace treaties must be made and continued to be revised until both sides are content with the treaty. 5) Countries need to keep in mind what the ultimate goal is: resolve the issue in the Middle East between Israel and Palestine. Therefore, the countries who's voices need to be heard the most are Israel and Palestine. And only when this goal is recognized by all countries (because as of now, it isn't...some countries are more occupied with less important things) can a hope of making peace begin. - What your country can do to assist with this process - Since Canada is a neutral country in this issue, we have relations with both Israel and Palestine and therefore are continually listening to their opinions because resolving this issue is what Canada wants to do. We look forward to the Peace Conference on Monday where these opinions will be presented to the invited countries. Canada is always open to talking and listening to the representatives of Israel and Palestine and are willing to help in any way that we possibly can. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 07:34:49 PM

Deep Throat Silent Assassins : Well said. It is true. To tame a dog. You let them starve. I have begun to realize that the Canadian Peace Conference will fail, due to lack Saudi Arabia being invited to the Canadian Peace Conference. Since Saudi Arabia is directly involved in this conflict as well, would it make sense to invite them? Nope guess not eh? Lets invite Turkey instead. This offically has shown what Canadas true intentions are. They don't really care if we solve the problem or not. Just as long as they host so that they can get the marks. I announce to all nations that the Peace Conference should be moved to another Country that had more middle ground. Such as Syria or Britian. This is directed towards Canada. I'm sorry. You've failed in your attempt to middle east peace before your conference even started. Canada is the one which have started the road to chaos. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 07:19:41 PM

Carter [e] Who's not relaxed, I'm perfectly relaxed, with no worries or anything because I'm going to be one the other side of that door tomorrow. I'm not sensitive to what you have to say, I just don't care. (I thought I made that clear with my previous post, but I guess I was wrong and things need to be repeated to China more than once before then catch on). And about recognizing China, is Trudeau here...is he currently running Canada...NO! So be confused and disappointed with our decision. And you might want to take another step back, actaully even better...take TWO! Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 06:42:06 PM

Red Leader What Israel needs to give up in the name of peace -Israel needs to leave the territory they are occupying in order to being proper negoiations. They also need to be open minded when it comes to other countries opinions. What Palestine needs to give up in the name of peace - Palestine needs to gain control over their terrotist groups using any means neccessary. What steps need to be taken first -Violent negoiations must stop -Peaceful talks must begin -Other countries must have a say or play some role in peace negoiations -Treaty must be written and approved of by both side - Internationl community must sign and agree to terms of treay in order to assure it is followed through What your country can do to assist with this process - Russia can provide support for peace talks as well as military support if needed. (But we hope that it isn't) Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 06:23:47 PM

Bittersweet [e] The media, despite their overwhelming brillance, are mistaken on whom they assume to be "silent assassins." Just a reminder: your posts are due before monday's class. Do them soon!! and "eyes & ears" needs to email me their real names Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 05:22:48 PM

Eyes and Ears A small warning to Silent Assasins, we know your identity, and who is in your little alliance. If you wish for your identity to remain secret, we suggest you do not attack the peace confernce...Although, at the same time we dont know how much longer we can in good faith keep silent about who you are! the media has been tipped off as to who you are.. come clean now or be exposed! Be warned, your time has run out! "China is currently undergoing intensive peace conferences within our close countries. Solving the Middle-East conflict is to include ideas of all countries." That sounds nice and noble, china, but last I checked, "undergoing intensive peace conferences" did not involve dealing with terrorists. Now, what are your cocky little policies on that one? your allance is a sham and a cover. You disgust us. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 09:53:51 AM

Silent Assassins In response to Carter, "Well one Russia isn't an asian country last time I checked" you must have checked wrong. Russia is included as asian and european. so the asian alliance can include russia. (take a gander at your planner) You may say the following now: "why silent assassin your brain power amazes us, ooooh" The list of our allies continue to grow. All attempts at peace will be plagued with a terrorist attack. Word of Advice: To tame a dog, let them starve. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 06:54:11 AM

Mosaic [e] Canada, take a chill pill and relax! Quit throwing temper tantrums at the Asian countries and Russia. Whether we can stand alone is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, take care of your peace conference first. If you are such a democratic country, why are you so sensitive in what we say? China is currently undergoing intensive peace conferences within our close countries. Solving the Middle-East conflict is to include ideas of all countries. The type of government in which a country runs, no matter Communism or Democracy, AS LONG AS A COUNTRY HAS THE MEANS IN ATTEMPTING PEACE IS WHAT COUNTS IN THE END. China has to say it is disappointed and confused at Canada's decision. Canada was the first to recognize China internationally by Prime Minister Trudeau; however, Canada is also the first to exclude China in such an important matter. This has strained Canada-China's relation politically and economically. CHINA HAS ALREADY TAKEN A STEP BACK. If Canada continues with this haughty behaviour, China will not appease any longer. This is our last attempt in maintaining relations with Canada or be prepared to face the consequences. Sunday, October 19th 2003 - 12:01:15 AM

Japan To view the GuestBook. http://books.dreambook.com/kazukun1/japanchatroom.html To Sign. http://books.dreambook.com/kazukun1/japanchatroom.sign.html Our Nation would also like to Send their 5 Steps to world Peace to our Japanese Peace Conference Message Board. We already have a annoymous messager. We still would like to promote peace. Although, if we want to talk about a peace soultion without it getting marked on what we say, I suggest using our message board. We are currently not sure if we will close the board when the peace conference occurs because we must evaluate the outcome of the peace conference. So , Overall, Please sign our board in a effort to promote Worldwide Peace. Saturday, October 18th 2003 - 10:32:59 PM

Carter [e] Well it seems like there are quite a few disapointed/angry countries about not being invited to the Peace Conference on Monday...and what I have to say to that is GOOD! First in response to the post by India: Ah just wonderful, its so great to hear ur opinion that you don't think I'm serious about solving this issue. Ah thanks for making the known, but ummm who organized this conference again...oh yeah that's rite...me and Sameer..Canada. So obviously, right there completely shows that solving this issue is important to us because we took the iniative to hold the first attempt at peace...not India...but Canada. So don't go telling me that resolving this issue isn't important to Canada because we didn't invite India. If its SOOO important to you, how come you didn't organize one...answer that one for me because I'm dying to hear another one of your opinions...they are just absolutely amazing! Also, I'm not rejecting the help of other countries, you're assuming something and you can NEVER assume anything...I didn't reject the countries I didn't invite, I just don't really care about what you have to say. And about this hostility you speak of, that's great too. Another opinion from India..and if you want to think that we are being hostile, go ahead...your entitled to your opinion. And lastly, I'm not accusing you and your allies of hiding behind each other and not being able to stand on your own, I'm stating a fact that I've noticed. But if I'm wrong, I challenge you to prove me wrong because from what I see from your posts still that you all depend on each other. Can't go here without my allies, can't talk to them without my allies, and I'm not the only one that has noticed this...so why don't you juss shut up and stop whining and try to act like an indenpendant country! Now for China: First of all, you say that Canada is trying to create more conflicts rather than promote peace by not inviting the asian countries, and then a little bit further down in your post you state that in order to protect the asian coutnries that Russia and numerous other countries need to be there. Well one Russia isn't an asian country last time I checked, and as I recall, I invited Russia but they turned it down because like urself and ur allies, you all can't stand alone...you have to be together because alone...you guys feel lost and weak; which is how you should feel because it is the truth. And about the whole creating a new conflict, bring it on because I didn't invite your COMMUNIST country for the same reasons I didn't invite India...I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY. All the RIGHT countries were invited! Saturday, October 18th 2003 - 08:00:15 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli The Palestinian Authority applauds Canada’s role in the peace process, and is pleased to be invited. The Palestinian Authority was not consulted in regard to invitations, and we sympathize with countries that failed to receive an invitation. It must be clear not every country can partake in the peace conference. The purpose of this meeting is not to mirror the United Nations, and only countries with a direct relation to the crisis are needed to discuss peace. Unnesessary invitations will only worsen the situation by diverting attention from the conference’s objective. The Palestinian Authority will continue to conference privately with all countries interested in achieving peace. The Palestinian Authority is committed to peace, and welcomes any dialogue promoting peace. Although our priority is to achieve peace certain limits must be placed to control Israel’s greed. The question of relocating Palestine should be abandoned. Israel has routinely used force in attempting to eliminate Palestine, any future attempts by Israel will receive an equally powerful response. An example of such is the fence the Israel continues to build on Palestinian land amidst international opposition. The Palestinian Authority, and the people it represents are committed to peace in these though times and are routinely trying to seek peace with Israel. Our desire is to seek peace, but we will not tolerate any further humiliation and torment by Israel. The people of Palestine and the Palestinian Authority have experienced terrorist attacks by the occupying power, and will not tolerate any terrorist threats against any state or it’s people. We look forward to the peace conference and wish it success. Saturday, October 18th 2003 - 07:10:47 PM

Nkosi & Kami [e] Regarding the Peace Conferences. If anyone wants to talk freely and openly on another board. Feel free to you our new chatroom. This is owned by Japan only. So feel free to express your ideas using this board. To view the GuestBook, Click here. http://books.dreambook.com/kazukun1/japanchatroom.html To Sign,Click here http://books.dreambook.com/kazukun1/japanchatroom.sign.html The following are Japanese government's view on this issue: -What Israel needs to give up in the name of Peace. The things which Israel needs to give up in the name of peace is the following: Israel must be willing to pull out of occupied areas that¡¦s defined as Palestine, give Palestinian authority full control over Palestine, and don't do anything provocative (like Sharon's visit to the temple). IF, the ¡§Berlin Wall¡¨ wannabe is to exist. Israel must give the rights and powers of the wall to International Forces. International Forces will occupy, patrol and surveillance the wall. No Israel / Palestine Army is to breach this wall unless consulted with the International Forces. This wall will also need check points in-order for peace to continue between the two countries. As our policy states : ¡§Good Relations in Business and Trade will eventually lead to Peace.¡¨ Although checkpoints will slow down traffic for the average Palestinian and Israeli in the rush hour, we are still here to keep the peace and restore order within the 2 countries no matter what happens. -What Palestine needs to give up in the name of peace. Palestinian authority must be ready to crack down on terrorist, restrict Hamas & PLO activities and educate its people that Israel has the right to exist in this world. In other word, they must be ready to keep their promises on helping Israel's security and reduce the hostility that exists within its population. Basically, both side must keep their promises to peace, and start building trust. -What steps need to be taken first Step 1.A temporary cease fire must occur between Israel and Palestine, to allow for the peace talk. Step 2.Israel pulls out of occupied Palestinian territories, while Palestinian authorities must crack down on Hamas and other terrorist groups; restrict its citizens from joining suicide bombing. Step 3 The international community should give both side pressure to make sure they keep their words, If Israel insist on building that wall, figure out where to place check points as well as other such points essesintial to business and trade. UN peace keeping force should control this boundary. Step 4 After some kind of trust is built, both side should sit down and negotiate, with the help of international community, they will sign treaties that define borders properly, and recognize each other as legitimate government. Step 5 Israeli gives Palestinian more economic freedom, while Palestinians respect Israel¡¦s exsistance. Step 6 Should violence erupt again, the international community reserves the right to restore peace by means of anything necessary. -What your country can do to assist with this process Japanese enjoys relatively neutral relationship with both side in this conflict, unlike many countries with bias or emotional ties in this conflict. Therefore we can provide a neutral ground for negotiations, provide treaty conditions that¡¦s mutually beneficial to both sides. We can provide the governments (The countries participating in the peace effort) financial and technical support, and humanitarian aid to the Palestinian refugees. If necessary, we may also send out military force on the peace-keeping mission. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 11:10:58 PM

Mosaic The Middle-East conflict is an issue that affects the world. By Canada unilaterally hosting the peace conference without the invitation of the Asian countries is attempting to promote new conflicts, not peace. Those countries that were not invited were forced in not having their voices heard. Therefore, IT IS NOT THAT WE DO NOT WANT PEACE, but that CANADA IS NOT GIVING US A CHANCE IN ATTEMPTING PEACE. As China has said earlier, CHINA BELIEVES ON THE IMPORTANCE OF BUILDING A LONG-TERM AND STABLE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY. As quoted by the US, "The USA supports peace and any country promoting it will be shown the utmost respect." We see that there is a common ground between the West and Eurasia in handling the international issues, NOT WITH AGGRESSION, BUT WITH PEACE. In order to protect the Asian countries, China is declaring that: Russia, China, North Korea,& India will help each other in times of crisis. Therefore, although China feels STRONG INDIGNATION in Canada's decision, but due to the current condition, China is willing to take a step down. We are currently persuading our allies to not interfere in the peace conference in any way. Although China is not invited, we still hope that those countries invited will reach a good long-term solution to the Middle-East conflict. ~~China hereby wishes the very best of luck to the Peace Conference on Monday.~~ Friday, October 17th 2003 - 09:21:50 PM

sam C We are posting this again due to a typo: Russia, China, North Korea, & India will not participate in any peace plans unless all the countries listed are present. This is not an act in refusing peace attempts. We believe that resolving the Middle-East conflict is important. This declaration is a security measure to protect the Asian countries since negotiations in the west are taking place constantly, in which there are no negotiations between the West and East. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 08:53:50 PM

Rostia & Co. By Carter not inviting certain countries to the International Peace Conference leads India to think that Canada is not serious in solving the conflict, and also rejecting the help of those countries in the peace plan. United States clearly states that any country not attempting peace will be demolished. However, it is difficult to show attempts at peace when: 1. countries are not invited to discussions 2. host of peace conference is sounding hostile and accusing countries of hiding behind eachother and their inability to stand for themselves, because this is absolutely untrue Friday, October 17th 2003 - 06:43:03 PM

Silent Assassins Russia is not displaying cowardice due to its refusal to come to the peace conference. It is showing loyalty, something the entire world could do with more of. Word of Advice for Russia: Loyalty is great, but do you realize that your allies have not listed you as one of their allies? take a closer look at the posts. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 04:29:17 PM

DFWM Israel needs to put trust in a peace treaty to stop violence. Palesitne needs to stop being stubborn about land whereabouts and need to control extremist groups First - Palestine implements laws and ant-terorism campaigns and shows for a discussed amount of time no violent behavior. Second - Israel must not provoke violence in during the time of Palestines peace test. Third - A certain amount of land has to be agreed upon, but a vote must be held instead of the decision being made solely by the countries leaders Fourth - A Treaty must be written with borders, penalties, and world-wide peace support Fifth - the peace support must carry out with action if the treaty is broken. The USA although are with Israel are open minded for a solution and will participate all force necessary in carrying out an agreed upon treaty no matter what country brakes the agreement. The USA has been blatently blamed for the non-invitation of certain countries and we are not pleased. If there are countries who wish to have conflicts with us just openly state it dont foreshadow your views with social attacks that dont make sense. N. Korea and The USA have began talks but the most recent bash on us from N. Korea blaming us for an invitation we had nothing to do with confuses us. The silent assasins will perish with ease. Although a country leader must be backing the silent assasins becuase noone else has acces to these forums, the USA is quite confident due to the involved countries cowardness in hiding their identity. Any country not attempting peace will be demolished. our confidence in world-wide agreement on peace gives us confidence that peace represents the majority and the terrorist minority will be destroyed in a heartbeat. As far as the nuclear weapon threats go, i laugh, we try to come to terms with N. Korea and they threaten with nuclear weapons, this does not show very trustable international relations. The USA supports peace and any country promoting it will be shown the utmost respect. Lives are being lost as we speak and there needs to be a solution immediately. Instead of everyoen getting their panties in a bunch why dont india and allies discuss amongst each other and the invited countries can represent the alliance, we need peace not more war. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 03:24:01 PM

Bittersweet [e] This is the second of the three pre-described posts. This will deal with the events coming up. In your post you must address the following: -What Israel needs to give up in the name of peace -What Palestine needs to give up in the name of peace -What steps need to be taken first (min. 5) -What your country can do to assist with this process This post is due Monday, October 20 before politics class. Lateness will not be accepted this time, marks will be deducted. Answer all the questions and you should get a good mark. If there are any questions you can email Tracy or Samreen by clicking on the underlined "[e]" at the corner of this box (beside the name Bittersweet). Silent Assassins and Bounty Hunter may also reveal their identity through email. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 03:19:48 PM

Carter [e] We were just informed that Russia will not attend the peace conference because certains allies of their's were not invited. Therefore this leads me to believe that resolving this issue in the Middle East is not important to Russia and those other countries that giving myself and Sameer an ultimatum to invite their allies. So the decision is yours, if you do not want to attend this conference to attempt to resolve this issue then do not come but remember your voice and opinions will not be heard and may go unnoticed. North Korea, China, and India, your posts were pointless since neither of your countries were invited. Apparently, all of you will not attend this conference without your allies and this leads me to believe that neither of you can stand on your own and instead hide behind each other. Lastly, I would like to announce that Turkey has been invited to the Peace Conference on Monday October 20 and we hope that both your representatives will come. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 01:31:05 PM

North Korea North Korea will not discuss peace plans with the United States unless all the following countries are persent: China North Korea Japan India We are all coutries with possession of nuclear weapons and ust be taken seriously. Our decisions are not any less powerful than any other countries. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 01:21:20 PM

Rosita & co India will not discuss peace plans with the United States unless all the following countries are persent: China North Korea Japan India We are all coutries with possession of nuclear weapons and ust be taken seriously. Our decisions are not any less powerful than any other countries. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 01:20:48 PM

Red Leader Russia will not discuss peace plans with the United States unless all the following countries are persent: China North Korea Japan India We are all coutries with possession of nuclear weapons and ust be taken seriously. Our decisions are not any less powerful than any other countries. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 01:19:26 PM

Silent Assassins The list of our allies grows. The upcoming peace conferences will be plagued with terrorist attacks. The United States or Israel are not complying with our demands, this will come at the cost of innocent civilian lives. Do not take our threats lightly, beware. Friday, October 17th 2003 - 10:41:11 AM

DeepThroat Silence. You defiant dogs. If you bite the hands of your master which feeds you. You will be utterly destroyed. So go back to your "igloos" or "mud houses" and never speak again. and Japan. You guys are useless. Such patehic methods will not help you find our identities. So go back to your stupid electronics and give up! Friday, October 17th 2003 - 12:32:50 AM

Nkosi / Kami The nation of Japan has decided to condemn all actions caused by terrorism, and has started a investigation upon the group calling themselves "Silent Assassins." Thursday, October 16th 2003 - 11:03:57 PM

Silent Assassins Just as it has been done every year. All attempts at peace will be plagued with a terrorist attack. Our group is planning an attack. The United States and its allies should prepared for an all out strike against its forces. The Silent Assassins ask for an immediate withdrawal of all Israeli forces from Palestinian areas. If this condition is not met terrorist strikes will commence on Israeli civilian and military targets. Furthermore, if Israel does not comply then attacks against American embassies worldwide will also begin. Thursday, October 16th 2003 - 02:32:44 AM

Rosita & Co. **Sincere congrats to China for a successful space trip.** India also discourages negotiations that are deliberately ignoring the involvement of significant countries. India may not be directly involved with the Pakistan+Israel conflict but India is a country that possesses nuclear war-heads; India is not to be neglected when there is something to be voiced. President Bush has been putting off India's invitation to visit Delhi, India for the past 3 yrs. India sincerely urges United States not to neglect the American Embassy in New Delhi. Wednesday, October 15th 2003 - 10:21:33 PM

~Steph & Daniele~ [e] Great Britain's position is in support with Israel however we disagree with some of their methods and actions being used. We disagree with Israel's military occupying Palestine and hope to convince Israel that other methods can be used in order to achieve peace. There is a myriad of possibilities for both the countries and it is our greatest hope that we can imbue some of our suggestions in order to obtain the goal of peace. Our mission is clear. We wish to end Israel/Palestine conflicts yet this seems easier said then done. We hope that our country can be of aid and although we support Israel it does not justify some of their actions that have been enforced. Overall we would like to participate in the ongoing attempt for peace in the Middle East. The theorist we chose is Mahatma Gandhi. Gandhi was leader of India’s fight for national independence, which was realized in 1949. The foundation of Gandhi’s philosophy was ahima, which means non-violence or non-injury. He displayed the importance of finding peaceful resolution to conflict and of working to minimalise harm inflicted upon others; learning to endure suffering oneself in order to ensure that injury is not caused to others and having the courage to love one’s oponents. “I have nothing new to teach the world. Truth and nonviolence are as old as the hills.” March 28, 1936 “Non-violence is the greatest force at the disposal of mankind. It is mightier than the mightiest weapon of destruction devised by the human ingenuity of man. Destruction is not the law of the humans. Man lives freely by his readiness to die, if need be, at the hands of his brother, never by killing him. Every murder or other injury, no matter for what cause, committed or inflicted on another is a crime against humanity.” July 20, 1931 Great Britain agrees with Gandhi’s attempt to solve situations peacefully and we thought that no one better could explain the goal that ALL OF US are desperately attempting to achieve. Peace in the Middle East. POSITIONS: Prime Minister Tony Blair: Daniele L. Deputy Prime Minister: Stephanie D. Wednesday, October 15th 2003 - 10:04:30 PM

Palestine - Machiavelli The Palestinian Authority, and the people in occupied Palestine condemn the attacks on innocent civilians. The attack on American monitors is tragic. A joint American-Palestinian investigation has begun to determine those responsible for this horrific attack. Wednesday, October 15th 2003 - 03:46:27 PM

Mosaic [e] China is here to declare our first manned space mission a success today! We are jubilant because we will be the 3rd country to do so in history! This manned flight is expected to last for 21 hours, in which the craft will orbit the Earth 14 times. This mission is significant for China, we hope it will inspire nationalism in our citizens. Wednesday, October 15th 2003 - 11:14:11 AM

Ak47 1. Our stand on the Palestinian-Israeli is currently neutral. That is because both U.S and the Palestines are our allies. We do not wish for a war to start, however if a war does star, we will be on the U.S side. That is because we have supported the U.S in every war that the U.S has battled in. We do not want to lose the friendship between us. 2. In this simulation, we hope that a war will not start between these two countries. However, that is highly unlikey because if Irseal were to use soft power to solve this problem, it might get complicated in the future. Israel might be a hegemony and that can cause problems for the world. Even though a war will likely start, lets pray that the problems get resolved quickly. 3. Kevin Kwong - President - Ahmet Necdet Sezer Eric - - Minister of Justice - Cemil Çiçek 4. I feel that we are a lot of similar to Thomas Hobbes. First, our governemnt makes all the decisions regardless whether the citizens like it or not. You can consider our president as the king for many reasons. If the citizens of Turkey are against an issue, the king will still stay firm on his side. (ex, iraq and Palestinian-Israeli issue). The governement is against the Palestine side, but the citizens are on the Iraseal site. We have to be at the top in terms of power and wealth. Wednesday, October 15th 2003 - 09:51:42 AM

Bittersweet [e] Important Dates for the Simulation Monday, October 13: 1st post due Tuesday, October 14: Diplomacy, Dress-up Monday, October 20: Press Conference, run by media Tuesday, October 21: Open Debate Thursday, October 23: Peace Conference Monday, October 27: Controllers Presentation Monday, October 13th 2003 - 07:19:23 PM

Bittersweet The FINAL Countries are as follows: Palestine- Nima & Hammad Israel- Adrian & Matt USA- Jayden & Dave Britain- Steph & Danielle China- Sam & Janice North Korea- Jimmy & Shaleen Canada- Carter & Sameer Mother Russia- Melissa & Keith Turkey- Kevin & Eric India- Rosita & Sarah Japan- Mike & Jacky Saudi Arabia- Kathleen & Sean Syria- Cathy & Chris Tuesday, October 7th 2003 - 07:25:25 PM

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