Ashleigh [e] i think the website is great and it is full of info. * anti depressants hair loss * adipex pill * nystatin result * is also very good. Wednesday, June 4th 2008 - 06:04:27 AM

hi hi [e] hi hi Tuesday, November 22nd 2005 - 01:54:44 PM

abhilash aight swetha i'll go against you. my stance is that the "war on terror" is not justified. Sunday, November 6th 2005 - 02:20:14 PM

Brooke I'm really interested in doing the issue number 19...Do Environmentalists Overstate thei case? I would disagree with this statement Hopefully Joe is interested in being my partner.. if not, if anyone else likes this issue talk to me :) Friday, November 4th 2005 - 01:56:35 PM

Melnyk Hey Guys, I just saw Sam's post below asking when the Position Paper was due... make sure you hand it in on Monday (your marks for midterms are due Tuesday so I have to mark them all Monday night... no extensions). This is also a good place to start working out debate topics, nicely done Swetha, Abhilash, Ammar et al. Whew, only three days left of the break, enjoy them... All the best!! MM Thursday, November 3rd 2005 - 05:21:57 PM

Ammar [e] I'll go up against you Swetha & Aisha. I will be against the 'War on Terror.' *Also I need a partner, anyone interested in being my partner please talk to me. Thanks Thursday, November 3rd 2005 - 08:01:33 AM

Swetha I posted the post on the debates just to keep in check that everyone knew Aisha and I were doing that debate and its up to anyone else who wants to go against us. Anyway, the position paper is due on Monday Sam. I recommend reading up on the past exemplars to get an idea of how to do them. Im sure you would get a better mark on it. Just a suggestion. Wednesday, November 2nd 2005 - 09:23:24 PM

Sam When is the final position paper due? Wednesday, November 2nd 2005 - 01:28:55 PM

abhilash ok who posted under the name 'debates need posting' and what this issue 17 supposed to be for? Wednesday, November 2nd 2005 - 11:43:19 AM

Swetha Palestine I think that we needed to respect the guest speaker because he was only giving his viewpoint. He wasnt Sharon defending Israel, and I wanted to be civil when I confronted him with my questions. I respected his views on the issue. Anyway, exactly what point are you trying to make anyway? ... I really dont understand where this is leading... Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 06:55:36 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] To Palestine (specifically Swetha): Your post might have been very passionate, however you should have shown a little bit of your passion infront of the Israeli guest speaker. Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 02:22:50 PM

Debates Need Posting ISSUE 17. Is America's War on Terrorism Justified? Swetha+Aisha Subject to change*** Just Called For Now. Thanks for Understanding! :D Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 01:52:19 AM

Swetha wOOps.. that was long.. SORRYYY *****!!!! I was passionate about this! Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 01:39:42 AM

Swetha Mandatory Assignment 3+Bonus 1. I believe that neither of these plans worked because there are political extremists that still believe that violence is the best way to solve the conflict and no matter how good the peace plans have been and are. Nothing will work unless there is absolute control over all threats and violence against civilians and against the government (assassination of Rabin). Another reason is that all of the peace plans established a time limit for each step that was not properly considered. Setting an interim period for each step of the process is unrealistic since the situation may take a longer period of time for settlement. Implementing a period of time within which certain aspects of the process has to be taken care of just puts more pressure of the governments to promote the peace plan. Lastly, the ambiguous decision on the status of Jerusalem, final territory lines, decision on refugee returns, Israeli settlement in the West Bank and the recovery of the new Palestinian state’s economy doesn’t relieve the dispute since these are the matters at the heart of the conflict. As much as it is a difficult issue, some sort of decision should be established so that there are some sort of solid grounds the population can stand on. With no decision made on these issues, the people of both countries are not motivated to accept peace; Palestine believes too little is being done and Israel believes too much is. 2. I think that there is not real underlying cause as to where this conflict began. It was never the Israel’s fault that they were positioned in the lands of the Palestinians and neither was it the Palestinian’s fault for retaliating against this decision. It is hard to classify where the fundamental cause of this conflict began, since it fall on the Israeli side, or on the Palestinian’s side. The bottom line is that so far, both sides have worked up enough atrocities to balance out the scale. Both countries have contributed equally to this dispute over land and blaming specifically one cause does not truthfully justify the conflict’s origins or reasons. 3. Even though there are an enormous amount of highways that are intersecting each other at odd places, cutting off connecting routes, massive reconstructions that could demolish parts of these intersecting highways or using these highways as a different method of transportation (flyovers) could correct the mistakes. Definitely there would be a lot of effort put into this, but if the international community has decided that West Bank is the Palestinian land according to the UN Security Council Resolution 242, then the international community along with Israel have an obligation to help the Palestinians re-establish their society properly again. The highways not working out properly is not a reasonable excuse for Palestine not gaining sovereignty over West Bank. 4. I believe that the Wall has effectively served its purpose for the Israelis, even if it means that Palestinians have to be detained from their jobs and schools due to it. I think that human safety and lives are more important and that this Wall serves as deterrence against terrorism. Eventually, when Palestine and Israel have established a more secure relation with each other, the Wall can be brought down as it only serves to remember each nation of its original purpose. This would take some time; however, the Wall for now should remain. Passing through it would be allowed at different major check points since it is necessary for national security for the Israelis. Palestinians would only have to ensure that terrorism doesn’t wage against their neighbours if they do not want to be detained. 5. I believe that a two state solution would definitely be better than a binational solution since sovereignty is the major fuel to all this conflict. If Palestinians were able to settle in their own lands, where their own culture can be preserved without another culture dominating or suppressing it, the citizens would feel much more safer and not have a reason to retaliate. Definitely every country has certain points that it has to ensure for national security and control over their territories, and definitely the state of Palestine would obtain all of these. It would include border security, citizenship, currency, institutions, health care, trade relations, access to resources, a growing relationship with their neighbouring states, and many more other basics that a successful nation would include. A Democracy would definitely be implemented, whether it be secular or not, however, no religion preaches discrimination, therefore, any discrimination would not be tolerated as it violates international law, and it will strictly be sanctioned to promote peace and equality, whether it be by force or not. Jerusalem will be divided equally, with the East towards Palestine and the West for Israel. Final borders will not be significantly established, however, it will be implemented so that each government can fund the city for its basic needs. The ability to pass over into the other part of the city will be admissible, but only through security at borders. This is only to ensure that security is reached for both sides of the nations. BONUS Well, the two speakers did a really good job. The Palestinian speaker really touched my heart because I understand the Arab culture on a personal level and watching the images reminded me of my home land. If I saw such devastation, it would provoke me the same way the Palestinians were provoked. I stand by the Palestinians’ side with patriotism, however, I do believe that Israel has also had its hand in peace negotiations and they have been generous many times. I think that Israel is a good nation, and the atrocities committed by the militant groups cannot be excused, however, it does happen, and should not be taken to be the only reason why Israel is at fault. Palestine and Israel have both suffered equally, as the Mr. Goldberg said and I don’t think that I blame any one side on this issue anymore, as I had at the beginning (Israel). Sorry this is late, Amelia, my internet explorer has problems, as you would know from the first post. Anyway, I put a lot of effort into this. Consider that a lot of people had midterms *ahem!* Sleep deprievation, scalding red eyes... please be generous. We did work hard though. Thanks :)for the co-operation. Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 01:38:41 AM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Mandatory Post #3 - Bonus I learned a few things from the speeches that I did not know before; for example, Hamas helps people in refugee camps. However, my perspective on the issue did not change, I am neutral and stayed neutral. However, I must comment that the Israeli guest speaker today did not convince me that this issue will be solved because his ideas, thoughts, and opinions on the whole issue were very 'non-compromising' which is very opposite of how Israeli people are portrayed in the media as the ones who, ‘compromise.’ I wanted to mention that I won the argument against the Israeli guest speaker today. Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 01:01:28 AM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Mandatory Post #3 1. Peace plans in the past have not succeeded for many reasons mainly due to lack of cooperation, commitment, compromise, and negotiation. No one wanted to do work together, no one wanted to minimize their pride, and in my opinion no one really had a solid golden idea. However, the time has changed, the doors to negotiation have opened, but it is far from being solved. 2. If underlying means, ‘original’ then it is the expanding of the Israeli territory. But if underlying means, ‘present core cause’ (which I think it was referring to) then there are many. From the Palestinian government and Israeli government for not negotiating, to the terrorist organizations killing innocent people, to the United Nations for not solving the problem, to United States for supporting Israel with money, to the Muslim countries who do not financially and militarily support Palestine, etc. All this creates violence, everyone has a part, it cannot be blamed at one single source. 3. If the question is trying to ask that; should the state of Palestine (permanently with set borders, and government) be created in the West Bank and Gaza Strip?; then the answer is yes and no. Yes, because they get land where they are in high population, and finally a recognized state can be born. No, because the West Bank and Gaza Strip are separate from each other, and in the long-term it will be hard to manage both because of how far apart they from each other. If you study the history of Pakistan you will learn that there was East Pakistan, and West Pakistan. However, it couldn’t work because there was India between them, so eventually it became Bangladesh (East Pakistan), and Pakistan (West Pakistan). Also what about Jerusalem, what about the highways only for Israeli in a land governed by Palestine? If the question was narrower I could have given a definite answer, but because it is vague, my answer is both yes and no. 4. The wall surrounding the West Bank has proven to help reduce the amount of violence in the area. However, I believe that achieving long-term peace will mean to torn down the wall. All you have to do is imagine if you were the average Palestinian (not affiliated to any organizations) who is surrounded by that wall, it makes you feel imprisoned in a land that you rightfully believe belongs to you, you feel as the Israeli government hates you because you cannot even get to the other side, you cannot even get to property that you may have on the other side. This will result in anger and resentment against the Israelis and then these people will affiliate themselves with terror organizations and do even bigger attacks than before. Right now they are waiting, holding the anger in, but soon they will do it, and it won't be pretty. 5. I have learned a lot of information both in class and online. However, I do not feel that I would like to make changes to my peace plan. The uniqueness of my peace plan is that it is fair, it makes both sides compromise and negotiate, and it solves the problem of Jerusalem. In addition, people living there, the political thinkers, and the average-Joe like this idea. Saturday, October 29th 2005 - 12:51:37 AM

Amelia Due to some personal requests (big words lol) I will accept the third mandatory post within the hour, so anytime during 12:00AM... once its 1;00 its too late though. Have a good break!! Amelia Friday, October 28th 2005 - 11:37:06 PM

Aisha Mandatory assignment #3 1. In the following years of the Oslo Accord and the central peace agreements, peace and diplomacy was always planed to be achieved by either/ or both sides sacrificing a significant part or resource, which was considered unacceptable within each nation. Also it is impossible to be able to satisfy both sides of the conflict and without doing so no agreement can be successfully maintained bringing peace to the quarrel. Therefore by the lack of understanding of reaching half way while the opposite nation responds to the other half, a peace process will be difficult to attain. 2. In this struggle for land there are two opposing sides both having strong refuting beliefs. Although by both sides being involved against one another, its given fact that there will be conflict eventually leading to violence over whom the land is rightfully designated to. Although because in this issue there are two parties engaging in a violent act, there is no room for excusing one side for the cause of violence more then the other. 3. By providing the Palestinians with land among the West Bank and the Gaza Strip it provides the Arabs with such means of their own territory, yet within the west bank such highways and by pass roads have been built permitted only to Israelis, in which are isolating the Arabs in such areas which are blocked off through these specific highways creating an “open air prison” for the Palestinians to create a lifestyle amongst. 4. Currently it is seen that by the wall being in position it has reduced such terrorist activity among the Israelis, which in a sense creates the ability for the Israelis to have the right to security and safety even if it means being protected by an eight feet wall. Yet by the wall being in place it also creates more tension among the Palestinians, giving them more of a reason to not resort to peace and intervenes with of their daily activities such as jobs and achieving a suitable education. 5. In addition to my peace plan, I believe that by having a bi-national government it would in a way help create a two way cultured society being able to sustain both the Israelis and Arab culture among one state working together achieving peace and avoiding discriminatory acts among one another. Although by having a bi-national state it may just generate more hate against each group drawing a solid line between their differences on a result to the bloodshed. - -Bonus- - Through out the discussions of the Israel and Palestinian conflict among the speakers, it was obvious that both sides carried passionate views and compelling perspectives. It was interesting to see how both sides carried their arguments on the several issues brought up, and which are still occurring to the current day. By having influential speakers and several visuals of maps and concrete examples it led to an informative yet significant presentation that was interesting and beneficial for many. Friday, October 28th 2005 - 11:22:01 PM

Aisha Mandatory assignment #3 1. In the following years of the Oslo Accord and the central peace agreements, peace and diplomacy was always planed to be achieved by either/ or both sides sacrificing a significant part or resource, which was considered unacceptable within each nation. Also it is impossible to be able to satisfy both sides of the conflict and without doing so no agreement can be successfully maintained bringing peace to the quarrel. Therefore by the lack of understanding of reaching half way while the opposite nation responds to the other half, a peace process will be difficult to attain. 2. In this struggle for land there are two opposing sides both having strong refuting beliefs. Although by both sides being involved against one another, its given fact that there will be conflict eventually leading to violence over whom the land is rightfully designated to. Although because in this issue there are two parties engaging in a violent act, there is no room for excusing one side for the cause of violence more then the other. 3. By providing the Palestinians with land among the West Bank and the Gaza Strip it provides the Arabs with such means of their own territory, yet within the west bank such highways and by pass roads have been built permitted only to Israelis, in which are isolating the Arabs in such areas which are blocked off through these specific highways creating an “open air prison” for the Palestinians to create a lifestyle amongst. 4. Currently it is seen that by the wall being in position it has reduced such terrorist activity among the Israelis, which in a sense creates the ability for the Israelis to have the right to security and safety even if it means being protected by an eight feet wall. Yet by the wall being in place it also creates more tension among the Palestinians, giving them more of a reason to not resort to peace and intervenes with of their daily activities such as jobs and achieving a suitable education. 5. In addition to my peace plan, I believe that by having a bi-national government it would in a way help create a two way cultured society being able to sustain both the Israelis and Arab culture among one state working together achieving peace and avoiding discriminatory acts among one another. Although by having a bi-national state it may just generate more hate against each group drawing a solid line between their differences on a result to the bloodshed. - -Bonus- - Through out the discussions of the Israel and Palestinian conflict among the speakers, it was obvious that both sides carried passionate views and compelling perspectives. It was interesting to see how both sides carried their arguments on the several issues brought up, and which are still occurring to the current day. By having influential speakers and several visuals of maps and concrete examples it led to an informative yet significant presentation that was interesting and beneficial for many. Friday, October 28th 2005 - 11:21:56 PM

John Israel [e] Mandatory Assignment 3 1) The peace plans in the past have not worked because at the times both sides were not willing to negotiate, they both believed that they were entitled to more than they deserved, so during the negotiations nether became completly satisfied and thus the peace plans did not work. 2)i dont believe that their is an underlying the problems in Israel. I just believe that there has been so much anger and hate by both sides toward eachother for so many years that they have just grown to dislike eachother, they both want to win this conflict and are very stubborn in giving things up. In order to make a peace plan work.. it is going to take a lot of hard work, and alot of pride swalling 3) THe gaza strip and the west bank are probably not the greatest places for the palestine, but its somewhere, in negotiations these were the two places that they were given land...yes it divids the people, but if they are willing to work the the israels then there should be no trouble getting from one area to anthor... once the conflict is resolved... things will become life will be alot easier for everyone. 4)The wall should not be torn down... it is working, the violance is down, why would you tare down something that works... if a peace plan is reached, then travel through the wall will be allowed, as long as the israels are confident that nothing will happen, palestines will be able to travel as long as the have the proper id, it would be just like crossing any boarder 5) in my peace plan, the palestines would recieve the gaza strip and the west bank, and the boarders would be respected, the wall would be completed, but the palestines would be able to travel through it as long as they have the proper identification. I dont know what to do with Jerusulem... i dont believe that there is any solution that would work for both sides,....there would definatly have to be alot of negotation over that one... and u noe what, Sam, there may be the need for some force, because there needs to be a solution for Jerusulem or i believe that any peace reached could and probably would just fall apart again and we would be back to where we started. Friday, October 28th 2005 - 10:43:46 PM

Colyy Iraq [e] MANDATORY ASSIGNMENT #3 =D 1. I think that the past peace plans have not been successful because in the past, such as the Oslo Accord, there was a lot of pressure placed upon the two sides to make agreements. Coming up with permanent solutions and attempting that will satisfy both sides was the problem in the Oslo Accord. As for the Road Map for Peace, what was happening was that, they tried to implement an end to terrorism, attacks, and expansion, tried to settle the geographics, and end of conflict; was just adding to fuel to the rage - creating a larger problem. 2. No, there is no one source. Both sides create the violence out of confusion, anger, wants (the land) and other things. 3. No, I don't believe that placing the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and West bank is the best solution even if their major settlements, highways, etc are located there - there should be the freedom/ right of mobility for everyone. I think that Palestinians and the Israelis should both get to live where they like and learn to share. 4. I think that the wall should not be torn down immediately, but there should be less restrictions for mobility, etc. and it should be torn down when the violence has visibly decreased and stabilized and a peace is approaching. This will ensure safety for people and more freedom. The wall should not be used to stop people from living but reduce violence. 5. I think that perhaps force (not physical) is needed at an extent so that the two sides will attempt to make new agreements. I think that the binational solution - secular democracy is the best solution since it means that everyone on both sides are equal and that this is the fairest solution for both sides. Bonus: Both guest speakers spoke in two different point of views, but they both seemed to have wanted the same thing - peace. From the Israel side, the speaker said that the fence was merely a source of security until they realized that they were causing harm. The palestinian side, felt that the fence and all, were a form of segration. They both stated things that were almost equally tragic. Since it is equally tragic - it made me think that the only way for a clear solution is equality and fairness, meaning they have to share. In the end, it made me realize that both sides are very passionate about their views but open to change. To implement the change and to negotiate is extremely difficult especially since both sides are equally right and equally wrong. Their views have made me realize how challenging it is to make two sides agree and that the problem is not because they are selfish and stubborn, but they are trying to make reality of their individual dreams... THE END~~~ Friday, October 28th 2005 - 10:33:51 PM

Chris Iran 1. I believe that the past peace plans have not succeeded because of stubbornness. By saying that, i mean neither sides are willing to give up something because they look at themselves as superior 2.I don't believe there are many underlying causes of violence because it truly is over the rights of land, and hatred for one another 3.Palestine must first settle with what they can get and then try to talk peace with Israel. In this case i feel that they deserve more than just the Gaza Strip and West Bank because it is very hard to get around, but one must start small then build up 4.I feel it is against morals to keep the wall up. I mean it does drastically reduce terrorism, but attempts for diplomacy have not even seriously been tried 5.I stay by my peace plan, i believe that in all honestly Palestine and Israel are stupid and both sides do not realize that they must give something up to get something. In saying that, I do not mean Palestine must accept the fact that they will never see Jerusulem again, but rather that although it is holy land, they cannot abolish the Israeli's from Jerusulum as well, because the places would just be switched vice versa. I believe that my peace plan makes sense, although it would never work, i really do not see any resolution to the conflict anytime soon and although it may sound stupid, i think Sam is right,that the only way to end the conflict is to force things upon someone Friday, October 28th 2005 - 01:15:38 AM

John Israel Amelia Im not going to be at class tomarrow...and the bonus question is based upon the presentations tomarrow... so i was wondering if there is anything else that i can do for the bonus marks.. Thanx John Thursday, October 27th 2005 - 08:41:42 PM

anita iRaq [e] Amelia, when is the post due? and do we need to post it or hand it in? Tuesday, October 25th 2005 - 11:48:49 PM

Amelia Controller Mandatory Assignment #3 QUESTIONS – 10 marks TIP: The bonus question would be good to answer if you missed marks. Answer it separately on Friday if you want to do the first questions sooner. Be sure to label it as “Mandatory Assignment #3 BONUS”, so I can distinguish it from other posts. _______________________________________________________ 1. In your own words describe why these past peace plans have no succeeded? (Road map for peace, Olso Accord) 2. Do you believe there is an underlying cause to the violence; is it possible to blame one source? 3. Judging by the map from the Economist article, do you believe giving the West Bank and Gaza strip would be the best for Palestine, considering where all their highways and developments are? 4. The wall surrounding the West Bank has proven to help reduce the amount of violence in the area, should it still be torn down, even when it is dramatically reducing violence? 5. Using the new information you have learnt both in class and online, what changes and improvements do you have for your peace plan? __________________________________________________ BONUS – 4 marks 1. What have you learnt from the two speakers (Friday) and have their views changed your perspective on the current situation? Why or why not. Tuesday, October 25th 2005 - 05:05:06 PM

Lisa Canada [e] REMINDER: Hey guys, try to be prepared tomorrow to make up a peace plan. Everyone should all be involved in this process. Useful links for tomorrow: www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues,isrlindx.htm www.wikipedia.com SEARCH United Nations resolutions concerning Israel and Palestine Monday, October 24th 2005 - 04:46:02 PM

Amelia Controller [e] Mandatory Assignment #3: As you all know we are in the process of reaching peace between the two opposing sides in Israel. These following sites will assist you. ASSIGNMENT: Look at the sites and answer questions, which I will post Tuesday night. DUE: Friday Oct 28. 12:00 AM ___________________________________________________________ LINKS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords - Olso Accord http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_map_for_peace - Road Map for Peace http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5063211 “Even More Separate” The Economist(article from class) Look at the MAP http://www.templebuilders.com/maps/politicalhtm.htm MAP - political boundaries in Israel. http://www.newspagedesigner.com/users/4026/israelwall.jpg - The Wall Monday, October 24th 2005 - 03:53:27 PM

Chris Iran Dear Editors of Joe Bro News, Your news article about Iran I find kind of biased. You give information, but it gives me the impression that you yourselves support the Iranian efforts. As professional newspaper writers, I must say that if you guys plan on writing good articles, you must show both sides of the arguments because your articles are meant to inform, not state your opinions. Otherwise, I feel that your articles were good and show that you guys are doing what it takes to earn marks. There are lots of supporting arguments for your theories and lots of quotes which make it even better. Besides that, I think it was a good newspaper and keep up the good work. Sunday, October 23rd 2005 - 10:41:06 PM

Lisa [e] REMINDER: Tomorrow, the Prime Minister of Canada, Paul Martin, will be hosting a peace conference in Whistler, British Columbia between the Israeli and Palestine’s conflict. This is going to be held at the Prime Ministers residence, Kadenwood Chalet. All nation’s leaders must attend and be prepared to compromise this situation. We will take as much time in order to solve this matter. P.S All nations must attend and also bring food delicacies from your home country. Thank you Sunday, October 23rd 2005 - 01:24:13 PM

Lisa [e] REMINDER: Tomorrow, the Prime Minister of Canada, Paul Martin, will be hosting a peace conference in Whistler, British Columbia between the Israeli and Palestine’s conflict. This is going to be held at the Prime Ministers residence, Kadenwood Chalet. All nation’s leaders must attend and be prepared to compromise this situation. We will take as much time in order to solve this matter. P.S All nations must attend and also bring food delicacies from your home country. Thank you Sunday, October 23rd 2005 - 01:24:05 PM

abhilash india To Palestine Could you clarify your point "Pakistan's attempt at hegemony" To the editors of Joe Bro news Is it possible for you to post up an online newsroom thing like period 4, i think it would be a lot better than a black n' white newspaper. Sunday, October 23rd 2005 - 12:43:11 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Check the new article... http://thecommentaryonline.blogspot.com/ Sunday, October 23rd 2005 - 12:04:19 AM

Coly Iraq Dear editors of joe bro news... For some reason, I think that the headline of the joe bro newspaper is a rhetorical question. "Will we ever have complete peace?" I think, never, as long as people have their own opinions and own views, there will never be complete peace. I was just wondering, what would people do if there was complete peace on earth. I think if there was this type of 'utopia' people will eventually start something, like an argument over what the standards needed for more peace are. People will question their own morality, and the principles and values of 'what is peace, and how to achieve it' will build up, therefore causing more conflict. Therefore, I think there will never be complete peace, nor will there be complete chaos. It seems kind of cynical and pessimistic to think that there will never be complete peace, but in my opinion, NO. The conflict in Israel and Palestine is merely one conflict of the world, and there are many many more around the world. Dispute is part of human nature, the need and want for power, fame, revenge, needs and success is all part of human nature. Therefore, there will never be COMPLETE peace even if the two groups make a peaceful agreement, there will be still be conflict in that place and around the world and therefore no complete peace!... Anyways... I was expecting more content in the Joe Bro news... but I thought it was pretty good. Keep it up! Maybe add interesting and more up to date things. Coly of IRAQ Saturday, October 22nd 2005 - 11:30:12 PM

Mahmoud Abbas Palestine First off all, I think that this newspaper is a little outdated! During the peace conference, Palestine never once said that they wanted 100% of the land again, instead the statement was that "Palestine wants to govern our own people". The statement quoted by Palestine, "want 100% land" was said at the beginning of the simulation so that has obviously changed now. Second, I think the newspaper was totally biased since there was only a small part on Paletine's views, "100% land". There were a lot of personal commentaries by the journalist too "...treated unfairly. Although they know the Jews have too been mistreated." Yes, we do know this, but is it really necessary to add it in? Later down the line, Palestine was thinking about changing some of its demands, however, the fact that Israel said "no conference until the Hamas backs out" wasnt reported in the newspaper. Palestine was more than willing to have a conference to settle out hostilities and agreed to stop the Hamas and its terrorist activities. However, that was never mentioned in the newspaper either. I beleive this newspaper is biased and supports the views of Israel, USA and Pakistan's attempt at hegemony, "...Pakistan...have proposed an allocation of land EVENLY half and half..." I am very much dissapointed in "Joe Bro News" and refuse to speak to any reporters from your paper in future conferences. Sincerely, Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian President Saturday, October 22nd 2005 - 05:30:19 PM

Joe and Brooke Media [e] Everyone should have received our newspaper in class today. We urge all of you to respond to our articles in the chat room. you are to write a Letter to the Editor, just write any feelings, comments, disagreements, fashion advice, ANYTHING you want, please make it over 100 words and GO NUTS (while obeying the rules of the chat room). We did not write our articles to offend anyone, but if we did that’s great! Tell us about it! If anyone didn’t receive the paper you can e-mail me at Joe_k_2002@hotmail.com and I will send you a copy. This letter is due Saturday October 22nd at 12:30 am (Sunday morning) Joe Bro News Squad Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 10:18:29 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Thanks for clearing it up Brandon. I agree with most of the points you have made. However I do not agree with the point you made about the existence of Judaism being a clear threat to Islam in the Middle East. I suggest you read up on historic-Spain, or other Muslim empires that had Jewish populations and how they treated them. But its all-good Brandon, lets keep this behind us and move on in creating and implementing a peace plan between you and Palestine. Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 11:45:01 AM

Brendan of course the original scripture hasn't changed. my point wasn't that islam is an inherently violent religion; my point was that religions clash because they are adapted to support popular causes, be they political leaders, war, economic movements. religions are different and therefore support different causes. the existence of judaism is a clear and present danger to islam in the middle east. arafat knew it and cooked up a militant interpretation of Islam in the hope that it would unite his people against the threat to the palestinian way of life. the kkk were a response to the imminent entry of blacks into the existing white culture as equals. both the kkk and the hamas enjoyed spectacular success; blacks are still second-class citizens and hopes of judeo-islamic peace in the near future are held only by those who practice optimism professionally. Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 10:44:19 AM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Israel we accept your apology; India & Pakistan will be continuing to achieve peace between you and Palestine. Outside IR (to Brandon): Islam does not have any evolution of religion; the Quran, the divine scripture has never been altered in anyway shape or form. Actions of some so-called Muslims do not represent Islam. That is like saying KKK represents all of Christianity. Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 10:29:53 AM

abhilash india To USA So basically what your saying is genocide = peace? Do you even understand what your saying? If you go to war it doesn't take a genius to know that you'll be shooting at Palestine and not Israel. If you manage to "blow up all the people creating violence" (i.e. in your view the Palestinians) the whole world will be watching Muslims everywhere will know and hate you even more. Bin Laden will make another visit to America again and the cycle of hate, violence, and total B.S. will continue. Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 10:14:46 AM

Swetha Palestine Out of role: TO Jake... That was adrmirable... I had tears in my eyes when I was done laughing at that comment... (just too funny) In role: To Brendan. I accept the apology on behalf of my country (including my collegue, Aisha) and we will forget that this ever took place. We understand you justification for what you said, but please also be more sensitive to the issue that it will offend some people regardless. With that being said, Palestine would also like to negotiate with Israel, but our terms must also be heard during the conference. Having a one sided term of agreement isnt a peace conference of justice and equality. Israel needs to understand the CURRENT political situation and how the country is supposed to respond to Palestine and its leaders during the negotiation. Anyway, we will state our terms and reasoning behind it in the Peace Conference tomorrow. Israel needs to heed our terms while offering their peace terms as well. With this, we will willing negotiate to bring peace and equality among both cultures. P.S USA needs to be addressed first-handedly by Israel when speaking about decisions being made for them. As Iraq stated, it is them who said would implemented peace terms. Argue that with your ally Israel, not with the International Community. Mouhmad Abbas - Palestine Leader Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 12:40:07 AM

Jake USA We aren't going to be trigger happy if we don't need to be. Buttons will only be pushed if you decide that they need to be. And yes, violence can stop violence. If I blow up all the people creating violence, sure, I might have made violence as well but the people who were being violent no longer can, thus ending violence. Thursday, October 20th 2005 - 12:11:41 AM

Brendan I know the scriptures of Islam do not promote killing. There is, however, the evolution of religion: over time, the letter becomes less important than the perception of its spirit. In times of war, God is said to support his followers in that war. There is, of course, no written support given by God - the divine protection is said to be granted based on the interests of His followers. Simply put, it's the thought that counts. Therefore, though the educated Muslim may have the opportunity to embrace scripture, the uneducated one must use a different adaptation of holy texts. It is a matter of survival; every religious leader knows it. A religious text that preaches tolerance and love will not survive in a world of vicious people. If the text were altered to match those people's perceptions of justice, you would have a great motivating force for an army of desperate people. There are religious sects because of differing interpretations of scripture. Why would interpretations be different? The cause of each sect must be supported by scripture or it will lack the fierce devotion of opposing sects. Islamic people isolated from the East can afford to befriend Jews; in Palestine, it's often too dangerous. Everything is entangled in religion: culture, economics, politics, etc. The survival of religion insures a culture's survival. It must seem that I say such things offhand - I don't, nor would I ever. For the offense endured in the interval between my remark and the posting of this explanation, I apologize. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:54:38 PM

aNita Iraq [e] Outside IR; I think what john said was right. It seems like everyone is somewhat ganging up on Israel and I think it's unfair for them to stand up for their own. (Besides when US scream at other countries¡¦ face about the comment they made.) Everyone should (not saying they aren't) respect and listen to what others have to say. Yelling and commenting on what other country is saying won¡¦t do any good for the conference. You basically can't even hear yourself thinking when you want to say something because there's someone screaming at someone else's face. Inside IR; Yes, Israel. At the end of the conference on Tuesday, I¡¦m sure everyone listened to your point when you said you were willing to make a peace plan with Palestine. Please do not assume that no one was listening because we haven't responded to it yet. No one has really decided on what you should or should not do. We know that you are capable of make your own decisions. If you¡¦re saying this, I think that you should say it to the US instead. At the near end of the conference, we all have heard what Mr. Bush had said, quote ¡§if the conflict between Israel and Palestine do not have a solution, we would step in and take action.¡¨ In my point of view, that being said, it means that they will be one the one making the decision for you, and therefore, you should yell or tell or talk to ONLY to US about this. Please do not pull the other middles east country into this. From all I¡¦ve heard, I did not recognize any of us saying ¡§we will do this or do that for you¡¨ in any way. Sure, there have been comments that were made that made some of us offended. That is why; we should choose our words carefully before we say it out to other countries in the next conference. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:54:16 PM

Amelia Sorry people I made a mistake, the funeral is not tomorrow, it is on Friday so there would be no change to class due to that. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:50:48 PM

Amelia Controller [e] Hi guys, I am currently marking your Mandatory Assignments, your first assignments are marked and I am almost finished marking your second. If you would like to know you marks please email me and I will reply with your marks.On the topic of tomorrows class, I am not completely sure what is happening. The site says: Thursday October 20th IR Simulation - Dress in Role (Mandatory) Canada's Peace Conference Although this schedule might have changed considering the funeral that is scheduled for tomorrow. We will see, my best advise would be to talk to Mr. Melnyk first thing tomorrow so you can get a straigh answer. I apologize for not being able to help. I will be speaking to him first thing tomorrow to find out the plan. Amelia Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:43:24 PM

Chris Iran Mandatory Posting #2 - Create one big democratic nation which has both Palestinian and Israeli politicians. - Palestinians are given human rights, and thus, many past incidents that have scarred many will be “forgotten”. - Palestinians will stop demanding so much from the Israeli’s and not view other races as the enemy just because of a different religion. - Forces cannot be used to necessarily “take over” and force things upon one, but rather use forces to force leaders to meet and create a peace treaty. - Jerusalem becomes land for everyone to worship on - Land is not viewed as owned by one individual because it is a written document, but rather land is viewed as the property of Earth and thus must be shared. - United Nations can have a say in the peace treaty that is to be made. - The United States should be taken out of Israel and must follow orders given by the United Nations. - Threats of attack and suicide bombing must show a massive decrease and tension must stop. - The next generation must be educated better so that they can have the knowledge to end the conflict, just in case it doesn’t. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:41:26 PM

abhilash india To Israel, John specifically One I must clarify that the whole world in not ganging up on you. At least not India and Pakistan. You can ask Palestine if you want but during our first conference we attacked Palestine on certain issues (which got them irritated) and we did the same to you. If you’ve forgotten Pakistan and I attacked you for saying: -Palestine is not willing to cooperate for peace…even when Palestine continues to appear at every peace conference in the past and present. It was also Ariel Sharon’s display of power that set of violence and resurrected the Intifada -Suicide bombings vs. armed militant attacks…what the hell is the difference? Either way innocents are unjustly killed…am I right? Damn straight I’m right. Anyone who says otherwise should be slapped. -That comment said by your partner…who shall remain nameless for the time being…I think he should apologise not you cause he’s the one who opened his big flabbergasting mouth I also would like to applaud you for saying that you are serious about the peace negotiations. And I would also like to thank your third point in your peace plan: “United States needs to understand that the threat of force does not help the negotiation process” Only a cynical person would believe that violence would decrease violence. Hypothetically if the US successfully forces peace by military means that would create an artificial peace that would not last. Simply because the US would be the glue holding Israel and Palestine together (if there even is a Palestine because we all know who trigger happy you are). America will not be in the Middle East forever and once you step out violence will erupt. Also as it is America has many problems (Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden) take more one step and there will be an increase of problems (…Usama). One more thing, Israel when you say: “So for countries who are not at the heart of this issue... that is every country besides Palestine... you need to but out and let us work out a deal... we will ask for your help or input if we need it.. So until you hear otherwise we are fine and can work things out ourselves” Are you also refereeing to the United States? PS: to the trigger happy Americans…take a lesson from Gandhi...suck-a Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:38:06 PM

Aisha [e] Mandatory Post #2 –Peace Plan 1.Putting a stop to all U.S involvement, without supplying and funding military support and armed forces towards Israel, and coming to a negotiation of the Hamas role within the state 2.Demilitarizing both Israel and Palestine, and have both states merge among one another 3.Excluding outer influences completely such as America, and resolving a peace plan among Israel and Palestine only 4.Refrained from the developing of the wall surrounding the west bank, and plans to have it removed 5.Funding from the wall and military support taken and put towards citizens providing social services, medical treatment, educational support etc. 6.Creating Jerusalem as a international state not belonging to either, although both having the availability and structure of religious significance 7.Both Israelis and Palestinians will generate over time and be capable of living among one another creating a secular democratic government, which will eventually lead to future benefits of equality. 8.Leaders of both Palestine and Israel will discuss and combine laws and regulations for their citizens of “the country” and an approval will be made that the laws promote peace and individuals rights, which are agreeable on both sides. 9.The UN playing the role of peace keepers will regulate the achievement and improvement of the secular state being sure that all security standards are being met 10.Any conflicts or complexities which are now met, will be dealt by the secular democratic state and the international communities, there will be no significant intervene of other nations which will play a effect on one side Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 11:24:47 PM

Lisa Mandatory Assignment #2 - Creating an independent Palestinian State with international monitoring - Palestinian should be considered equal therefore having human rights. Example; Using references to Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms. - Israel should take out all of its settlements in Sinai (Egyptian territory) to the Suez Canal, and the Golan Heights.( Syrian Territory) - The United Nations should have more authority over peacekeeping situations. In order to resolve this conflict, it cannot be done with only one super power. - For the United States to be a neutral country and to stop supplying Israel weaponries. Helping both, nations. - United Nations peacekeepers could establish humanitarian aid, and development assistance over a period of time in Palestine. - Diminishing the “security fence” through the West Bank therefore symbolizing that segregation has ended and for the Israeli’s and Palestine to be neighbouring countries. - Jerusalem: For Palestine and Israel should both have custody to both, their Holy lands. Both have to work together in order to sustain this city. - Israeli and Palestinian leaders should come together in order to draft security measures for ensuring no suicide bomber attacks will no longer happen and to maintain order. - In order to make a final draft of the peace plan, the United Nations should also have a say in it with Israel and Palestine to get the nations to co operate and actually keep their word. Negotiation is a rough process to engage in unstable nations. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:51:26 PM

John Israel [e] I am extrememly offended at the comments made by Palestine... Ok... i will agree that some things have been said that sould not have been said... But Isreal has not been the only county that has been saying these comments... I feel as if the whole international community is out to gang up on Isreal... It seems like the International community has decided what Israel wants... appently we dont want a peace plan.. and unless i am unaware of something... we are willing to make a peace plan.. if anyone was listen to Israel at the end of class on tuesday.. which i imagen they wont as many countries showed little respect toward Israel. they would have heard that YES... yes we are willing to work toward a peace plan... we have some things that we will not negotiate on.. but there are many... many things that we are willing to negotiate on... People of the international communtiy need to stop making decisions for other countries... it doesnt make the county who you are making decisions for very happy... you would not want a country making decisions for you so dont make decisions for us. We are very capable of making our own decisions... So for countries who are not at the heart of this issue... that is every country besides Palestine... you need to but out and let us work out a deal... we will ask for your help or input if we need it.. So until you hear otherwise we are fine and can work things out ourselves Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:38:17 PM

Swetha Palestine Israel definately showed their lack of cooperation with Palestine during the conference, however, hopefully during the next Peace Conference, Israel will learn to respect and recognize Palestine as a sovereign country and people of a certain culture and nationality. Without this equality, I believe that peace can never be obtained. (out of role: even in the real world, it is impossible without the basic principles of integrity). Palestine will overlook this ludicrous remark and continue with the peace plan since we undestand that many are inclined to the misconception of Muslims being terrorists. However as the remark was deeply racial and discriminatory to several members of the confernece, an apology is demanded from Israel, not just to Palestine but to the entire international community. Mahmoud Abbas , Palestine Leader. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:27:43 PM

John Israel [e] Mandatory Assignment 1) Palestine needs to understand that they are in a negotation and they will not recieve everything they want, they are the less powerful state in the negotation 2) They need to give us some sort of assurence that they will make an effort to control suicide bombings 3) United States needs to understand that the threat of force does not help the negotation process 4) As Isreal we need to be open to negotation. we need to work toward a new partenership with Palestine 5) Control of Jerusalem needs to be decided 6) Palestine needs to undstand the we (IsreaL) are building the wall to protect ourselves, and with the right partener ship that wall will become no more than a piece of concrete, with palestines able to travel as they want.. But until that, it will be used as a means of defense 7)Once and if a peace plan is met, there needs to be regulations that each party needs to follow, and penalties to those who break these regulations 8)The UN needs to back out, they have no power, they say that they are in to keep peace, but all they do is cause distress and uneasy feelings 9) Once a peace plan is met, boarders need to be clearly defined so that there is no confusion. 10) This is probably the most important one of all, Both countries at the heart of the conflict (Israel & Palestine) need to be willing to sit down and negotiate, this peace plan is not going to come easy it is going to take some work to sort out,the other countries that are going to be present in the negotations need to understand that this is a plan for two countries ( Ireal and Palestine) dont forget that. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:19:32 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Outside IR: Just wanted to point out that I totally agree with Aisha on what Brandon said. That comment went to far even if it was for the IR Simulation; we are still in a public educational learning environment. Inside IR: Israel should apologize in-front of the international community on the comment they made about Muslims. If they do not, it shows their lack of interest in cooperating with Palestine, it shows their stubbornness of not creating a peace plan, and it shows extreme disrespect along with total stupidness. Pakistan is extremely upset; furthermore, we will back down from creating a peace plan with Israel if they continue to make ludicrous comments like that. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:16:51 PM

Coly Iraq [e] Mandatory Post # 2! Peace plan proposal for Palestine and Israel =) 1: Israel and Palestine government should encourage and stop further physical and military violence. 2: When the conflict visibly and statistically decreases, there should be plans made within the Israeli and Palestinian governments to have a conference and invite any countries to attend that will not create a biased effect. 3: The two opposing sides should have representatives that will meet in a secret location in a neutral country - there should be very little publicity about this meeting to prevent 'terrorist attacks' or any kind of disturbance. Any countries that will like to be involved without biased attitudes can attend as well. 4: Israel and Palestine should both discuss their sides and points of arguments - stating what they want and what they expect from the conference. 5: Due to the fact there are both victims and the problem makers on both sides - there will need to be apologies and they should try to come to decisions that do not include vengeance and will solve the problems to the best of their abilities. 6: No matter what both sides want, the wall and any sort of segregation shall be removed. 7: The two sides will have to share both parts of the land to the best of their abilities - even though it is easier said than done. The other countries that will be attending the conference will try to influence sharing of the land or the best possible solution which could be a secular democracy. Jerusalem would be shared as well, giving different districts to each side if the Jerusalem cannot be shared as a whole. 8: The leaders will try to promote peace amongst their people and should come together to combine their governments and laws. 9: When the new government and laws have been read through and both sides agree. There should be formal declaration of the combination of the two states and the new laws that will work for both sides will be enacted. There will be peacemakers around to make sure that the declaration will strive for success. 10: The fundings that the two states receive should be combined - making sure there is no bias. Everything should be shared since it will now be a combined state. No more funding should be used towards nuclear weapons, it can be used for protection but not for attack weapons. 11: There should be elimination of threats such as nuclear weapons immediately. Ensure the safety and survival of this new bi-state nation is essential - peacekeepers such as the UN should stay in the new combined state to help maintain order and peace. 12: The new government and legislation will give equal rights to all citizens of the new combined nation. Cities, such as Jerusalem will get funding from the combined government - equality amongst everyone, everywhere will be the key point. 13: Monitoring of the nation will be done throughout the entire process until the country is stable. Especially Jerusalem, the government will have close international interaction to ensure that there is no corruption. Any trouble or revolt will not be tolerated. 14: Any following problems will be dealt through the combined state and the international community. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:07:52 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Mandatory Post #2 The Israeli & Palestinian conflict has been going on for a long time. A lot of issues have been put up on the table, but we constantly see that most ideas support one group or the other. The peace plan has to be un-bias, simple, and end conflict. Here are six main things in my peace plan that will have to be achieved: -Create a separate state of Israel that cannot expand its borders -Create a separate state of Palestine that cannot expand its borders -The holy city of Jerusalem will be an independent state, e.g. Vatican City -Funding for the holy city will be provided equally by Israel & Palestine -No troops can be at the border of there country The reason why I think Israel & Palestine should be a separate state is because the whole idea of Israel is to create a country for only Jews in the, ‘Promised Land.’ It kind of defeats the purpose if you combine Israel & Palestine as one state. The issue of Jerusalem is one of the main reasons of the conflict; my idea proposes an independent state. An independent state that will provide needs for both Muslims, and Jews. This will therefore not be Israel land nor Palestine land; it will be land for everyone. The money for this state will be provided equally between Israel & Palestine; this will foster cooperation among the two nations. I believe there should be no troops at border as that increases tensions, it creates a gap of trust, and it simply scares people. If both sides are willing to cooperate, then there will be no need of troops at the border. This is just a very brief outline of the peace plan; each point can be further detailed. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 10:04:56 PM

Swetha Mand. Assig.2 [e] 1. Both, Israel and Palestine will demilitarize all borders and no military force will be used against the other 2. US will stop funding Israel military forces and will only be a mediator during the peace conferences between Sharon and Abbas. 3. No US intervention in policing will take place. Palestine and Israel have sovereignty over their own nations and will have to agree on the peace terms themselves. 4. The Wall separating the two states will be struck down. Rather, fundings will be spent on bringing up the economy by building new businesses, houses, schools, hospitals and creating job opportunities for Palestinians (and Israelis) without jobs. 5. Both nations will emerge as The New State (both countries annexed into one). Land, economy and resources will accommodate Israelis and Palestinians equally as needed. Both cultures will have to learn how to live WITH each other, not BESIDE each other. This will encourage an environment potentially free from discrimination in the future years to come. The status quo for both cultures will be equal, so no dominant race, culture or nation will oppress another. 6. Citizenship will be given to all Arabs and Jews of the New State. A new name will be implemented since it is the development of a new country with new laws, government and population. All citizens will have equal opportunities regarding jobs, schooling, benefits from the government, and treatment from the court during cases etc. 7. Palestine and Israel will form a secular democratic government that will have two leaders that represent each culture (Jews and Arabs). This will ensure that both visions of both cultures are recognized when passing any legislation regarding religion, national holidays etc. These leaders will be voted into office by the entire population. 8. To ensure peace in the New State, the new government, with the supervision of the UN and support of the US will enforce these new laws. This supervision will continue for approximately a 5 year period and will later decided if further intervention is still necessary. When security level doesn’t require intervention, the New State’s government will gain completely sovereignty over the nation’s people. 9. The New State’s government will have to report to the UN of all the new legislations passed to ensure that a community of world powers understand and are aware that peace and equality are legally being promoted by the leaders. 10. The state of Jerusalem will be an independent city with the Peace Keeping Task Force ensuring security measures until it is observed that the security threat level has decreased. Then Jerusalem will be under the New State’s legislation. 11. Palestine and Israel will fund Jerusalem’s basic needs (housing, sanitation, hospitals and schools etc.) during the entire period (even when Jerusalem is under UN supervision). People of Jerusalem will gain the citizenship of the New State but will be permanent residents of Jerusalem. 12. Legislation over religious ceremonies conducted at Jerusalem will be negotiated and declared as a Charter so that each culture has equal rights over the land during their religious celebrations. 13. Since the Israeli military force is disarmed, the Palestinian Hamas will also be disarmed. Members that still oppose the New State’s legislation will be immediately arrested and tried in court, no warrant necessary. 14. Any opposition to the Peace Plan and demonstrations of violence will result in immediate arrest and life sentences (or death penalty according to crime). This is to basically evoke fear and detain possible sources of chaos and violence. NOTE: US will only support by ensuring the country gains a stable economy and political sovereignty. (e.g.: trade treaties, funding for stable society when necessary, etc) This means that their involvement will be strictly through external means. Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 09:39:40 PM

Rob IraN [e] Mandatory Post Peace Plan - break up land considering populations. (Larger population get larger land) - Keep U.S. out of the negotiations - Involve international community - Take votes from most influencial nations since the two sides can't do decide themselves - U.S. stops funding Israeli military and funds peace process instead - Force both Israeli and Palestinian leaders to promote peace to their communities - Knock down the wall - Military resources are to be forgotten and both leaders are equal in power - U.N. peacekeepers will be at the sites where both communties are together - Suspend any outsider help to either side (aside from relief and peace) Wednesday, October 19th 2005 - 05:36:04 PM

aNita Iraq [e] Mandatory Post #2 10 step peace plan for Palestine and Israel. 1. Have one or two representatives from all the countries sit together in a room, in a place where it is neutral from both sides. 2. Have them discuss about the situation; should Israel give up their land back to Palestine. 3. Have both Israel and Palestine comment on what are their thoughts about the given solution from other countries. 4. (My own thought of peace plan) Since there is a larger population in Israel than the population in Palestine, they should share the land equally together. 5. Because there were so many people before that died over this conflict, they should just forget about the hate and revenge they have on each other and try to work everything out WITHOUT VIOLENCE. 6. There will be NO WALL or any kind of separation that will be between those two places. 7. Being said, there will be no border or any kind of separation between those two places. It would be simply sharing both lands. 8. Both president from each party will sit down and have a real negotiation about the conflict and how they would get their people to act to this peace plan. 9. U.S. will stop supplying military forces to Israel, but instead help out financially like Canada. 10. If possible for the fairness, they should come up with another name so that both sides would agree to it since it is a shared land. Possibly taking bother name and combining it. Tuesday, October 18th 2005 - 11:11:16 PM

Sam USA Mandatory Assignment: -Implemented region wide punishment for the occurance of a terrorist attack or suicide bombing enforced by the UN. -Israel removes soldiers from the West Bank and Gaza strip. -Israel and Palestine become seperate states with open borders to either type of citizens, much like the border policies the US and Canada have. -Mandatory ellections will be held that have an equal number of Palestinians and Israelis per partyin both the Palestinian and Israeli territories. -Israeli and Palestinian officials have equal say in all matters within both states. -Schedualing for religious celebrations, regular and special for both faiths, will coordinate with eachother to eliminate religious feuds. -For the first 10 years, policing will be implemented by representatives from various outside nations to eliminate discrimination. -Shared economy and resources will occur since it will be one country with two seperate states. -To eliminate bias and discrimination, decisions for the Jews will be made by Arab officials, and vice versa. This promotes a system in which one must help others before they can help their own people, which in turn promotes cooperation. -Funding for teachers from outside nations will come from the UN and other willing nations. Teachers from outside countries allow less margin for bias when teaching in schools, eliminating racism and discrimination. Tuesday, October 18th 2005 - 11:04:16 PM

Brooke Media 1.)Everything from the past will be FORGOTTEN. (Both sides have contributed violence etc... now it is time to settle this once and for all.) 2.) Israel will be run by secular democracy, implemented by the U.N. 3.) Israeli and Palestine leaders will negotiate proper borders, making sure that the number of ppl vs. the amount of liveable land they are in is equal. (Therefore the Jewish and Arab people will have equal amounts of land, according to who has the bigger population.) 4.)The borders will NOT change, no one can increase or decrease their territory. 5.)Jerusulum will be shared between Palestinians and the Jewish people. 6.)A peace agreement signed that each Palestinian and Jewish person respect Jerusulum and the fact that they each share it. 7.)Any funding will come from all parties involved. Primarily the U.S. 8.) Peace Keeping will be implemented and a watchful eye will be kept on the importation of any weapons. (None will be acceptable) 9.)A "NO VIOLENCE" policy will be implemented and any hate crimes or religion based violence targeted at one another will NOT be acceptable. 10.) Everyone will stop fighting and live with the fact that each and everyone needs to SHARE in order to live peacefully! Bitterness and grudges are a waste of time. (IN this case, a waste of bloodshed, and tears) Tuesday, October 18th 2005 - 09:18:44 PM

Aisha [e] (Speaking out of role) Today in class during the IR simulation, a comment had been made which was personally taken extremely offensive. “ Why is a Palestine a threat?” “Because they promote terrorism.” “Because their Muslims” As stated in the Quran, a holy scripture of the Islamic faith: In the name of Allah (God), the Compassionate, the Merciful “Slay not the life, which Allah hath forbidden save with right. Whoso is slain wrongfully, we have given power unto heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. “Verse 17.033 Islam does not promote violence or death, yet certain stereotypes structure the society in believing that Islam and Muslims practice this terrible act. So the next you want to label Muslims as terrorists, be sure to not confuse the acts of certain people with the actual guidelines of that specific religion. Tuesday, October 18th 2005 - 04:52:37 PM

abhilash india oh yeah whatevers bellow is my 2nd manatory project thing Monday, October 17th 2005 - 11:18:39 PM

abhilash india 1. Israel will demilitarize 2. United States will stop further shipments of arms to Israel 3. All Nuclear armaments will be removed from Israel 4. No military action will be taken by any Western or European countries 5. Israel will not attack any other country 6. The Israeli Wall will halt construction and will be taken down 7. No Palestinians will make further attacks against Israel 8. Hamas and all Palestinian leaders will take responsibility for stopping further acts of violence towards Israel A. All aid provided by foreign nations will be used to rebuild the Palestinian state and provide care for its citizens B. All aid provided by foreign nations to Palestine will not be used to fund anti-Israeli campaigns in any form 9. No other Middle Eastern country will use military force against Israel 10. Peace Keeping Task Force will be implemented to secure the safety of both regions (Israel and Palestine) 11. Israel will give up the West Bank to Palestine 12. Israel and Palestine cannot increase/decrease their territories 13.The Holy City of Jerusalem will become a state of its own much like Vatican City A. Jerusalem will be open to all Jewish and Muslim citizens of Israel and Palestine B. Leadership within Jerusalem will be secular C. All rights and freedoms of citizens within Jerusalem are protected and secure and cannot be removed D. Jerusalem will have its own post office, commisionary/supermarket, bank, railway station, electricity generating plant, publishing house, coins, stamps, internet domain, etc E. The United Nations will take responsibility and control in setting up a stable, secular & democratic leadership D. Violence of any kind is prohibited in Jerusalem F. Funding and aid will come from Israel, Palestine, and the UN Monday, October 17th 2005 - 11:12:59 PM

Amelia Hey everyone, your right about my mixup. Go with the date i posted on the site, thats my mistake. Remeber to dress up tomorrow or ill think of something embarassing for you to do! Monday, October 17th 2005 - 06:36:12 PM

Swetha To Amelia... Mandatory Assignment #2: In class on Tuesday Oct 11, I spoke on the two existing peace plans for the Israeli and Palestinian conflict. The two state solution and the binational solution. Two state being that Israel should be divided between the two, and binational solution saying that a secular democratic government should rule both. For your convenience I have put the Wikipedia links to re-explain these two concepts. Two State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution Binational:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binational_solution __________________________________________________________ ASSIGNMENT: Make a peace plan for the Israeli Palestine conflict. Minimum is: 10 point form steps. It is worth 10 marks. DUE: Wednesday October 19, 12:00 AM TIP: The final Mandatory post, which I will post later, will be due on Sunday, October 23. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 05:42:44 PM Monday, October 17th 2005 - 05:35:38 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] On a personal level: I just wanted to say that today we have witnessed a death in our school. This death was not because of any violence, or abuse; rather it was natural, Curtis had a critical heart condition since birth, and his parents have said that it was a blessing that he had actually lived for seventeen years. Our school today, prayed, cried, and remembered the memories that we had with Curtis. Although I didn't know Curtis very well, I was still affected. As people around me cried, I felt the need to be in silence and reflect. As I try to comfort people, I realized that so many people were affected by this one death (that happened naturally). I started thinking about what people in war affected regions have to go through; places like, Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan. This is where people are killed by other people; how would it affect them? It is a mind-boggling question; imagine if all your family was suddenly dead, or your whole street suddenly was vanished, or all your closest friends gone. We cannot even begin to imagine what the people go through; war should always be a last resort, but it is not. Curtis was a strong guy, he was positive even though he knew about his condition, he left a legacy. Lets all try to reflect, learn a lesson, and move on…its sad, its really sad... Rest In Peace Monday, October 17th 2005 - 04:28:49 PM

Coly Iraq Legal Documentation? Does USA have a legal documentation that says your land is what you own?... And if so, who is to say that and implement that it is YOUR land?... In whose or which countries' laws is it to say that land is legally yours? How is it that you can force people to say that something is yours? Do you have proof that the current land is USA, and why is it that we have to believe it is your land? YOu have to realize that legal documentation is really just a bunch of 'rules or guidelines' written down as india said... can you implement it, that is the problem. USA has to stop thinking that they are really the GLOBAL LEADER... because, for sure, if you had no international relationships, USA will mostly definetely fall. So, please stop thinking that USA is the boss and that if you implement these 'legal documentation' of boundaries then conflict will stop or it will never have happened. What you say is 'organization' sounds to me like IMPERIALISM, and surely I can name many instances where imperialism has made things even worse! Throughout history, we have seen borders redrawn - things change! And if you believe that you can implement something for eternity and that change will never occur... wow... I will be left speechless at your stubborness and ignorance... blah blah blah!........ Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 11:41:32 PM

Mahmoud Abbas Palestine Mr. Bush So are you telling me that all that civilization documented before the Egyptians invented the papyrus form of paper is (excuse me for this language) crap?? Are you telling the world that the [UN Security Council 242] (look it up yourself) document is invalid?? Are you telling the world that a document you had full approval of when published is not legal when it was clearly written on a "piece of paper"?????? Are you stating that your OWN laws documented in Arms Sale Code of Conduct is invalid because it clearly does states this on a "piece of paper": "In theory, for 25 years US law has sought to keep weapons out of the hands of governments that will use them to abuse human rights. In 1978 Congress established a principled prohibition against the transfer of weapons to governments that engage in a consistent pattern of gross violations of human rights. " Excuse me America for questioning your integrity, but I believe that because a country who did not "document" on a piece of paper that a certain piece of land was theirs means that the people living there are nothing but mere nomads and have no claims to the land when they clearly have a strong a history and attachment to the grounds of that place. Remember, Palestinians may not have their land the way it was pre-WWII, however, they havent given up the war on the claims of THEIR lands. It will continue until you recognize the significance of this land to us, and not JUST the Jews. Do not talk to me about being a democratic nation of fairness and legal respect. You know NOTHING about being legal and fair. We will continue to see your nation as extremely racist (question your history of slavery and discrimination). Your structure is based on your arrogance. Mahmoud Abbas - Palestine Leader Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 11:35:35 PM

Swetha Palestine Its a form of expression.... 200% means I more than support them!?!?!?!? Picking at my personal comments doesnt question my knowledge... I more than proved myself in my arguments, majority of which you failed to address with strong evidence... yours was a repetion of "its not your land" or "we support israel because we have to support someone" and "during the biblical ages, which was millenias ago, they were the first settlers there"... all of which proves nothing because it doesnt deal with current issues. PS: when poland refused to take the Jews in, how come they were never forced out of their homes and given a small piece of land to survive in like the Arabs were (something that Sam mentioned on friday to me... just wondering...) Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 11:19:01 PM

Jake USA Palestine... how can you possibly back up India 200%? There is no such thing as 200%, the most you can have is 100%. Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 11:04:36 PM

Sam USA As a democratic nation of fairness and legal respect, we believe that laws are not just pieces of paper, but upholding agreements. Had there been proper, legal documentation of territory then this conflict would not have even begun. Call it arrogance, I call it structure. Organization. These are things we take pride in, call us racist and prejudice for it and we will call you immature. Organization and structure is something this conflict needs, documentation and legal issues will be its resolution. Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 10:58:03 PM

Mahmoud Abbas Palestine To India, We will be discussing strategies and plans in our convention held in Melnyks231 on October 17th 2005. Thank you for supporting Palestine in accordance to that ridiculously arrogant remark from the USA. Well appreciated. Palestine promises to compromise for peace, but as said before, only through terms that are just. Mahmoud Abbas - Palestine Leader Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 09:53:21 PM

Mahmoud Abbas Palestine To the President of the United States of America Just because YOUR laws do not legally recognize the name of a landmass, it doesnt mean that Palestine does not exist as a nation with a distinct culture of people residing in it. If you have taken the opportunity to open your eyes and realize that majority of the population was Muslim, their culture included much of what existed in the Byzantine era (read up on your history Mr. President), there was an established local language (Arabic if you do not know) and there was a stable political and economical status that was established well before America even existed. If this does not constitute to a recognized nation or nationality of people, then by far, the arrogance of the United States of America contributes to racism and discrimination. So much for your motto of liberty and justice for all. Your injustice towards the Arabs will be seen by the world. Mark my words Mr. President. Mahmoud Abbas- Palestine Leader. Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 09:48:58 PM

abhilash india To The US: legal documentation is nothing but pieces of paper. how would you like it if someone forced you out of your home? Now i'd like to divert the worlds attention to the year 2000 at the Camp David Summit. It was the closet attempt at bringing Israel and Palestine to peace...I'm asking the international community how can we do it again and succed? I'm wondering if Israel will make the same offers, and if Palestine will change their desires, please let me know asap. Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 09:36:32 PM

Sam USA Everyone talks about "giving Palestine their land back." Read up, and you will all come to understand that no part of Israel or any other piece of land in the world has never belonged to the Palestinians. Therefore, whatever they get from this conflict will be a gift, just as the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were. Therefore, anything at all should be appreciated and no land will ever be "returned" as it has never had legal ownership by the Palestinians. If Palestine legally has no land, they are not a country and are therefore not recognized as worthy allies to the United States. Therefore, our funding will continue to go to a recognized nation of the world and our ally, Israel. Deal with it. Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 01:49:52 AM

Swetha Palestine YES IRAQ! I back you up on all your arguments 200%!! Palestine honours your patriotism to your fellow Muslim brother and sisters. May Allah be with you. Mahmoud Abbas, Palestine Leader Sunday, October 16th 2005 - 12:42:04 AM

Coly Iraq (http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm) Here's some historic and some present information about the conflict between Israel and Palestine... very useful! It helped me out a lot in understanding this. Truly, I do believe that USA, you are very deceptive and what you say about your intentions are not identical to what has been revealed in reality. Iraq is in a way thankful that you took out Saddam, but we aren't thankful of your greed, lies and all the horrible things you are causing. Iraq has made a decision to support Palestine. It seems as though, in the past Israel and the Zionists assumed that they could just ignore the needs of the Arabs/ Palestinians - and they believed that if they could turn Israel into a Jewish State, that the Arabs would leave and move into the surrounding Arab States. Why is it not possible vice versa?... Why cannot it be that the Arabs can regain all their land and the Jewish leave? Selfish of Israel? Yes, I think so, there is not only significance to the Jewish but also for the Palestinians. Why is it that this land should be handed to the Jewish and the Palestinians ignored? (http://palestinechronicle.com/story.php?sid=20050401072739279) In the article of the link above, there is a brief description of a proposal in April 2005 by Israel that: "Israel is constructing 3500 housing units in E-1, a corridor connecting Jerusalem to the West Bank settlement of Ma'aleh Adumim, which would seal the fate of the Palestinian state. E-1 plan removes any viability from a Palestinian state. It cuts the West Bank in half, allowing Israel to control Palestinian movement from one part of their country to another, while isolating East Jerusalem from the rest of Palestinian territory. Since 40% of the Palestinian economy revolves around Jerusalem and its tourist-based economy, the E-1 plan effectively cuts the economic heart out of any Palestinian state, rendering it nothing more than a set of non-viable Indian reservations." - This will leave nothing for the Palestinians, their rights are taken away from them, they will be left with nothing!... continued... "If there is any silver lining in the E-1 plan, it is that it has highlighted American complicity in Israel's settlement expansion. The Bush Administration, while calling the E-1 plan "unhelpful," nevertheless formally recognized the Ma'aleh Adumim settlement bloc, together with E-1, in last year's agreement between Bush and Sharon--a fundamental American policy change that was ratified almost unanimously by Congress. This puts the US in the very uncomfortable position of undermining its own Road Map initiative, which stems from the "Bush vision" of an Israeli-Palestinian peace. It also neutralizes completely America's role as an honest broker, and pits it against the other three members of the Road Map Quartet - Europe, the UN and Russia - who deplore the change in American policy." - OK! so USA says that its a bad idea, right? BUT!, USA support Israel which means support for Sharon which means the support of his settlement project is completly destroying the possibility of the survival of Palestine. Dooming peace for Israel and Palestine. Clearly, USA you are not helping with the conflict even if Palestine does not get 100% of their land back and Israel will miracly decide to share Jerusalem. Really, USA, you said 'Do you think we want to kill all the Palestinians?' - well do you realize that... maybe you don't but why are you being so unfair and giving so much of your funding to Israel? and their possible intentions is that. Here is an organization's website (http://www.sustaincampaign.org/) it is the Stop U.S. Tax-funded Aid to Israel Now organization and perhaps you can see how horrible you are. Also, an interesting fact (http://www.mideastweb.org/3379.htm) it talks about a UN conference in 1975 that states that Zionism is racism. Therefore the Israeli movements to remove the Palestinians and to make Israel and Jerusalem completely Jewish are Racist movements and a great example of segregation! (http://www.wrmea.com/html/us_aid_to_israel.htm) here are some figures, facts and impact of usa aid from the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. "No two historians ever agree on what happened, and the damn thing is they both think they're telling the truth." Harry S. Truman. Saturday, October 15th 2005 - 05:57:03 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Media: When is your paper being published, or are you putting it online like Period 4. Saturday, October 15th 2005 - 01:18:45 PM

Swetha Palestine Well Amelia, Right now, we are fighting for all of Palestine. No one said anything about Israel wanting to give up half the land as yet, and I havent as yet heard that Palestinians want only the Gaza Strip and West Bank and a "land joining the two"??? I think you are forgetting Jerusalem in this too... But perhaps on Monday, we can come to terms with what is EXACTLY wanted from each country. Is it possible for you to tell us what exactly will be happening on monday so we can better prepare ourselves and know what to expect??? Swetha Friday, October 14th 2005 - 11:00:33 PM

amelia controller Concerning the Israel / Us / India/ Pakistan / Egypt deal thing. Id just like to point out that it is not very realistic for Israel to be fine with giving up half of their country, and realistically, Palestine if offered this would probably jump all over the opportunity. Correct me if im wrong, but isnt all that Palestine really wants is West Bank, Gaza Strip and land to connect the two? I know im not supposed to get involved but i just had that one comment to bring up. Great job on posting though, and remember to do the mandatory post! Amelia Friday, October 14th 2005 - 09:58:35 PM

amelia controller Concerning the Israel / Us / India/ Pakistan / Egypt deal thing. Id just like to point out that it is not very realistic for Israel to be fine with giving up half of their country, and realistically, Palestine if offered this would probably jump all over the opportunity. Correct me if im wrong, but isnt all that Palestine really wants is West Bank, Gaza Strip and land to connect the two? I know im not supposed to get involved but i just had that one comment to bring up. Great job on posting though, and remember to do the mandatory post! Amelia Friday, October 14th 2005 - 09:58:31 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] http://thecommentaryonline.blogspot.com/2005/10/israel-palestine-perfect-peace-plan.html About the Israel & Palestine Peace Plan Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:08:44 PM

Sam USA I simply used the Roman Empire as proof that you are the hypocryts. You prove that point with every post you make. You don't support war and discrimination is unfair but you want 100% of the land, you will not stop the violence until you have achieved this goal. It is your pursuit of 100% control that leave your people in the wake of war, poverty, famine, etc. This pursuit is the presence of ignorance and the origin of the violence and death of your people. Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:24:39 AM

Jake USA I will state this for you one last time: You will not get 100% of the land that is no longer yours. You are the one again and again proving your ignorance in the situation. What you fail to realize is that you will not get all of your land back. Not only is it impossible, it is unbelievably illogical. You call for a conference to negotiate. I am willing to do this, but I know any LOGICAL terms set out will be instantly shot down by you as you are requesting 100% of your land back, which will not happen. You will not agree to anything else, whci his unbelievably ignorant of you. If you want to set up a conference, fine. Take the responsibility to set up a conference if you want it so badly. But remember, there is NO WAY you will get 100% of your land back, and I am sure every country will agree with me when I say that, so there is no point wasting your time. Remember, by not agreeing to any terms we have laid out for you, the blood of your people is on your hands more then it is ours, as our terms are logically thought out to benefit both parties as much as possible, but your terms are only meant to benefit the Palestinian party 100%. That will not happen, and until you to realize this, then the blood of Palestinians is on the hands of your government. There is no longer any point to arguing over this on a message board as you are being ignorant to anything other than perfection on your side. We both know that this will not happen, so I am not going to argue over it any further. If you would like to think of a more logical solution I would be glad to hear it over a conference if you would like to set one up. Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:24:12 AM

Mahmoud Abbas Palestine To the recent posts. USA, would you easily give up your status if the jews in your country claimed that land as Israel's Land.???????? When the roman empire pushed the jews out, did that include romans or arabs??? Self explanatory, ROMAN Empire and when was this exactly?? Arabs have lived there for a long time after the Jews made homes elsewhere. Since they had the sympathy of foreign countries and foreign aid, they were able to rise economically and therefore, evoke a war and claim territory. Excuse me USA, but your idea of justice, liberty and peace and what other moral claims your country comes with, is just nonsense... you stand for none of that since you obviously dont see that the Israelis fought a war that wasnt even THEIR war... it was someone else's money, someone else's power and someone else's support that helped them gain these lands. Therefore, their "claim" over Palestine is again, sheer nonsense. Step up to the plate USA and stand for righteousness rather than being arrogant war supporters. No one wants war... but it is definately necessary when others are being discriminated and treated unequally. Sure...lets all sympathize with the Jews and the Holacaust, but lets all spit on the Palestinians when they face poverty, discrimination, murder in the Middle East War.... Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:16:16 AM

abhilash india [e] yeah yeah india/pakistan own! Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:10:31 AM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Mr. Bush (Sam) Just a correction: About the 11 million killed in the Holocaust included, 6 million Jews, gay community, disabled people, black people, anti-nazi Germans, etc. That is all for now, you will see my post very soon. Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:05:44 AM

abhilash india [e] To the leaders of USA Palestine and Israel First I’m going to say to Palestine that Pakistan and I are doing the best we can for the situation. We know of the suffering that you are burdened with. We know all to well how it feels to be slaves in our own house, if you remember India has a long list of foreign rulers that once controlled India starting with Alexander the Great and ending with the Brits leaving in 1947. We know what its like. We’ve been there. “ "I ask you with all do respect to open your minds and telephone lines to negotiate with Israel" - WHYYYY isn’t this proposed to ISRAEL??? Only Palestine???” Recognize this…my answer is at the bottom of the original post you took this off. Here it is for you “To Israel, you are an equally important factor to resolving or escalating this conflict…so why the hell don’t I see any post from you? As a matter of fact there's hardly anyone putting post...doesn't anyone care? This is an international problem and requires an international effort.” I must highlight what I said there: “To Israel, you are an equally important factor to resolving or escalating this conflict…” And “As a matter of fact there's hardly anyone putting post...doesn't anyone care? This is an international problem and requires an international effort.” I’ve addressed the whole world to step up. I haven’t forgotten about them. My apologies if I’ve made you feel isolated but I assure you that you are not abandoned and that India and Pakistan will do whatever is necessary to bring peace through peaceful ways. Now to the US. As an ally to Israel it is a part of your duty and friendship to provide support to Israel when needed. I agree with you. And I totally agree with your pursing of PEACE. BUT I believe there are other ways. Israel who is equally important to resolving or escalating this conflict has not made many posts to discuss plan for peace. That must be the first priority for you the US and Israel. Also pushing the threat of violence is not going to bring peace but make more violence. How many times must I repeat myself? Palestine has a rights and it is unjust for you to say, “anything more then what you have right now should be considered a blessing”. Also your aggressive talks are stirring things up more than that is necessary. And Now to Israel I’m not trying to be offensive but you are failing in trying to peruse peace with Palestine. The reason for this is because you haven’t been attentive on the discussion boards, which shows that you are not interested in a solution. And I must also add that your first and so far only post was only put up because my partner Pakistan pushed you into saying something. NOW TO BOTH ISRAEL AND PALESTINE If you both don’t realize this now then I don’t know if you ever will. You both try to justify your means by the amount of suffering you have sustained. All I see is a comparison of death tolls. 3711 Palestinian have died since September 2000. In 3 months 800 000 Hutus were slaughtered by Tutsi. 6 million Jewish people have died in the Holocaust. Do you know how many civilians were massacred in Stalin’s Russia? The estimate is 14-60 (that’s 60. less than 61 and greater than 59) million. I know that what I’ve said seems radical but I’m just trying to say that there are people suffering on whole different scales here. And that no one person’s suffering is more or less significant or important than the other. I repeat: No one person’s suffering is more or less significant/important than the other. If you don’t see yourself as equals then you are setting yourself further apart, which then increase tensions and violence lead ultimately to more death. Friday, October 14th 2005 - 12:00:11 AM

Sam USA Just a quick correction before i begin. 11 million Jews died in the Holocaust, 6 million is the number of Jews killed in concentration camps. Let's take a stroll through history. Israel is the historical home of the Hebrew people, yes they were in Egypt for a period of time until Moses took them back "home". Jump a few centuries ahead. The Roman Empire took Israel over [via means of force, war and death] and gave it to the Palestinians. After the Nazi Empire had been defeated in the mid 40's, Poland was rejecting the return of the Jewish people. No one wanted to give them land to call home. So, they were moved to Israel. War over the territory raged again, eventually leaving the Hebrews of Israel victorious over Egypt, Jordan and Palestine. Israel then gave back land to all three of these opponents of war, something they absolutely did not have to do. Israel now occupies land that they came to power in through the same means that you, Palestine, did so long ago. But now that you have felt the wrath of your own back hand, the victorious force is suddenly being unfair. 1. Do not mention the word hypocracy in your posts again as your actions are the unofficial definition of the word. 2. Request the peace plan from the international community. 3. Accept the deal made, as any offering is fair to your people. This is justifiable in that you have already accepted an offering from the Israelis (late 1960's) but it is no longer good enough. You did rightfully lose the war and forgive the expression, it take two to tango and you lost, so accept the responsibility. 4. Keep in mind that we are not bragging about our power. just remind you that you can "lose" again. Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 11:59:45 PM

Swetha Palestine Israel your identity is free to keep in our land. We arent persecuting you, therefore, please understand that your immigration into the Middle East doesnt mean that you take over another nation's land and persecute the people who live there. "Israelis have been persecuted for decades. We have faced probably the worst genocide in history. Where almost 6 ( that's 6.. which is one more than 5 and one less than 7) million were killed. " Please dont claim that because of this, you NOW have the right to persecute other people. We recognize your ancestor's sufferings and the continued pain it brings, therefore, we hope that you will begin to understand how the Palestinians feel since we are being treated by you the way you were treated for many years by those who persectued you. The largest population of Jewish people live in the USA, they havent conquered any of it as "their land", why is it that you feel the need to claim Palestinian land as "Israeli Land"???? Is it not enough that you would have land and have freedom as individuals in Palestine? Is it not enough that we are willing to negotiate with you rather than wanting you to get out of our land. We do have sympathy towards you, yet you dont seem to have any for us. Please consider that peace can never be brought without this. You of all nations, would know what Palestinians are suffering. Sincerely, Mahmoud Abbas - Palestinian Leader Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 11:46:12 PM

Swetha Palestine First let me address the USA. Israelis were first PUT on our land, they never fought for it. It was mandated by the British that this will be the Jewish Lands. When as a matter of fact, The Arabs were asked to assist the great powers in overthrowing the Ottoman Empire and in return, gain their independant states. Now, Arabs did fight the Ottoman Empire and gain these lands through war. Then the Israelis are sent to this land which rightfully belonged to the Arabs and by the help of other nations who had economic means, rose in power. They had enough power to attack other nations and conquer land. Now, is this not the 21st century? Does conquering land and massacring people for power a pursuit in our day and age? Apparently the Jewish thought it was so and unecessarily felt the means to conquer more land. They too felt that peace wasnt enough for them, nor was the massive amount of land. So of course, they would meet retaliation. USA, you again and again prove your ignorance. YES we want all of it to be Palestinian land. That was how it was and should be. The wars that were established the control over territories should not even be valid because it wasnt through the country's own economy that supported it, but foreign aid. If the Arab nations had this aid, I am sure that the lands we lost would be Arab territory today. Israelis should be thankful that they got lucky by having supporters. Palestinians never gave up their lands, they are still fighting for it and will continue to do so. So Israel rule over whatever territories they have right now is illegal and is defiantely a breach in justice and law. For USA to say that Israel has won their land fair and square, please refer to the UN Security Council Resolution 242. Since you are one of the major super powers, I assume that the declaration you proposed and agreed to would have your consent on what is requested upon the Israelis. Definately you understand the breach in this document. Also please refer to your International Arms Sales Code of Conduct Act which states the following: "In theory, for 25 years US law has sought to keep weapons out of the hands of governments that will use them to abuse human rights. In 1978 Congress established a principled prohibition against the transfer of weapons to governments that engage in a consistent pattern of gross violations of human rights. In 1996 it established tight new regulations on arms brokering,(29) and unauthorized retransfer of weapons to another country are likewise prohibited by law.(30)" (http://www.amnestyusa.org/arms_trade/document.do?id=90e529ce1563379c80256d26005cb2a1) This clearly states that your "alliance" with Israel is a VERY VERY weak argument. Find something better to defend your actions as being just and reasonable, because right now they are totally biased. You are not negotiating, you are dictating to Palestine. We never agreed to half the land. There is no settlement. we clearly see you have NO respect for Palestine. That just causes a rift between us and any aim for negotiating is impossible under hostile treatment. (From you and I both.) The 1993 Oslo Peace Accord was a completely biased agreement that Palestinians deeply regret and wish to correct that mistake we made on agreeing on the peace terms. We realize now that our aim for our territory is our final vision. We have laid out terms that this land belonged to us through our wars and our bloodshed and is rightfully ours. We are also not asking the Jews to leave the country, which shows we are trying to negotiate. Again, The conditions Palestinians are living under shows the Israel cruelty. USA remember, you have the blood of Palestinians on your hands too, so you are blamed no lesser for the conflict. Terms laid out for negotiations should be done so with a conference, between Israel, Palestine and the USA. So far there is no such conference and no agreements or negotiations. The documents stated in this post prove much of how Israel took illegal actions. Unless Palestine's views are respected and considered, there will continue a hostile environment between Palestine and the USA. Mouhmad Abbas, Palestinian Leader. Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 11:37:52 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] http://thecommentaryonline.blogspot.com Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 11:13:14 PM

John Israel [e] Hi all I would like to start off by saying that the United States should be allowed to support any country they choose. There is nothing that says they have to support every country on this planet. They have chosen to support us. And we thank you (United States) for the help you generously give us. If there is every anything we can do for you. We would be more than happy to support you just like you have supported us. Palestine... You are depending on this land? you need this land for your identity? for your self-esteem? for your respect.. I just have one question to ask. What about us? I ask you... What about us? Israelis have been persecuted for decades. We have faced probably the worst genocide in history. Where almost 6 ( that's 6.. which is one more than 5 and one less than 7) million were killed. Should we not have land to call our own. Do we not deserve land? What about us. The United States have recognized this, and are willing to help us get some land to call our own. I thank you United States again. You are willing to make sacrifices for us, and we will never forget that. It is time for me to go today is Yom Kippur, and i am currently immersed in fasting a prayer. Today is a very spritual day for Jewish people in Israel, i think that on this day, other countries in the world need to take this time to figure out what they truely believe and how they truely feel. Not how they may be lead to feel by others. Ariel Sharon - Prime Minister Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 10:35:38 PM

Jake USA At this point in time, you are in absolutely no position to be requesting the entire land mass be under Palestinian control. You engaged in what was called a "war". The stats that you showed obviously prove that you lost this war, fair and square. I'll sum them up if you'd like: Square KM of Palestine: 6,220 km2. Square KM of Israel: 20,770 km2. This obviously shows that Israel is in control, as they, in war, ended up controlling more land mass then Palestine. So, when you request that all 26,990 km2 be under Palestinian control when Israel obviously defeated you is EXTREMELY unreasonable. If peace negotiations at this time involved the land mass to be split equally, I think you should be unbelievably thankful with that outcome. Israel controls 4/5ths of the entire land mass and Palestine controls 1/5th of it, approximately. And you want all 5/5ths? And you also think your request is reasonable? And you also think that my peace terms do not see the Palestinian view? Honestly, you are right. I am not including the views of Palestine. But I am not including the views of Israel as well. The only view I am using is the view of the map that shows how much control Israel has over the land you are claiming is yours. I see 4/5ths Israel and 1/5th Palestine. So again I say, you should be happy with 1/2 of the land, because there is NO WAY that you will get all of it. Some other quotes of yours that wasted my time: "If you didnt want peace, you wouldnt negotiate then right?" Thats right, if we didn't want peace... we wouldn't negotiate. But we do want peace, which is why we ARE trying to negotiate. "What exactly do you have to say for the military benefits you provide Israel? You ignored the fact." I didn't ignore the fact. I said we are allies, and thats what allies do. They help each other. "Palestinians want peace, but we are not willing to have it by sacraficing what is rightfully ours." You are not "sacrificing what is rightfully ours". You already lost what WAS yours, and wanting all of it back no questions asked is unbelievable. Again, back to the main point so you don't forget. You WILL NOT get back 100% of your land. You lost it in war, and anything more then what you have right now should be considered a blessing. Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 10:26:16 PM

Swetha Palestine "One huge cost is not secret. It is the higher cost of oil and other economic damage to the US after Israel-Arab wars. In 1973, for instance, Arab nations attacked Israel in an attempt to win back territories Israel had conquered in the 1967 war. President Nixon resupplied Israel with US arms, triggering the Arab oil embargo against the US. That shortfall in oil deliveries kicked off a deep recession. The US lost $420 billion (in 2001 dollars) of output as a result, Stauffer calculates. And a boost in oil prices cost another $450 billion."{www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html} This is another reason that USA has an alliance with Israel. There is your great "peace plan" USA. George Washington and his moral of never lying goes right down the drain. Shame on you USA. Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 10:05:52 PM

Swetha Palestine USA, Your peace terms are not laid out as yet to me. As far as I know, your peace terms would be dividing the land into halves, each for Palestine and Israel and Jerusalem under the control of the UN... Am i right? Well, this is unreasonable considering the fact that Jordan and Egypt do not have little itty bitty pieces of land for their entire population. No one has invaded what they have fought for in the past and no one is alienating their human rights. Also, if you what JUSTICE means, then you would understand that it means compensating properly for what harm has been caused. I have repeatedly said during our diplomacy that the land should be Palestine's land, under Palestinian jurisdiction, even so, the Jews can live in this land because we understand there would be nowhere else for them to go. Palestine is not being unreasonable, but this is what Palestine believes to be a fair decision. YOUR peace terms do not include any of the Palestinian views. Therefore, I once again conclude that your attempts at "peace" is not thoroughly thought out and not sympathetic to the Palestinians. You have no real aims for peace. You have the blood of Palestinians on your hands because you helped Israel in the bloodshed. "If we did not want peace, then the means of negotiation between the United States and Palestine would involve the U.S. Army and many more innocent Palestinian lives." If you didnt want peace, you wouldnt negotiate then right? Why do you constantly contradict yourself USA? Please make up your mind. And over that, "involve the U.S. Army and MANY MORE PALESTINIAN LIVES"? What exactly was that about Peace then? Is this how you negotiate for peace???? Your egoistic nature on how powerful you are doesnt seem necessary in such situations, we are all aware that you are the "Big Boss" so all this boasting of your greatness is not effective in any way. If you are truly a nation of justice, you would honestly and whole heartedly try to help the Palestinians. What exactly do you have to say for the military benefits you provide Israel? You ignored that fact. What about the condition that Palestinians are living in because of your help to Israel? You Alliance with them is unreasonable when they are killing Palestinians without any justified cause. Have you noticed the death toll posted?? Or is that something you cannot justify and that is why you ignored it? Please NOTE: we are not asking you for funding, we are simply helping others notice your actions and the hypocrisy of it all. Palestinians want peace, but we are not willing to have it by sacraficing what is rightfully ours. Our identity depends on this land and without having rightful claims on it, we lose our self-esteem and respect. WE WILL NOT ACCEPT PEACE WITHOUT JUSTICE. Mouhmad Abbas, Palestinian Leader Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 09:37:23 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] I am happy to see that the posts in the discussion board are lengthy. Other countries please jump-in as we want to hear your opinions on certain issues. Mr. Melnyk I am hoping you are marking our contribution, and participation on the discussion board. Thanks Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 09:15:18 PM

Jake USA You think our true intention is not for peace? You are absolutely wrong. The United States has unbelievable military power. We ourselves have not killed a single person in the Israel/Palestine region. You say our main intention is not for peace. If it isn't peace, what is it? Do you think we want to kill all the Palestinians? Why the HELL would we want to do that? And believe me, if we DID want to do that, it would have already been done. If we really wanted something other then peace, we would have done it already. There is no factual evidence that says we want anything other then peace. There is what you think, but that is because you are fighting with an ally of the United States. What the United States and Israel have is called an ALLIANCE. We help them when they need it, and if we ever need their help they will help us. If we did not want peace, then the means of negotiation between the United States and Palestine would involve the U.S. Army and many more innocent Palestinian lives. But that is not the case. Remember, we are the United States of America. We have the power to do pretty much ANYTHING we need to do... so if we want peace we will negotiate for peace. We are doing what we can, it is just up to Israel and Palestine to finally agree on plans we set out for them. Do NOT accuse us of anything other then wanting peace. You want peace in your region just as much as we do. And believe me, if we really did not want peace, then things would be a lot worse then they already are. Another thing, about that article you posted at www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html . You complained in the post right before your post directed to the United States about funding. You said: "The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s." But, if you had of read anything more then the first sentence of the article which you used as evidence, you would have noticed this piece of information: "In addition, the US has given Egypt $117 billion and Jordan $22 billion in foreign aid in return for signing peace treaties with Israel." Yet you complain about American funding to Palestine, and are also complaining that we do not want peace? Maybe your funding would be increased if you agreed to peace terms with Israel? Two countries who DID agree to peace with Israel saw amazing increases in funding from the United States after they signed peace treaties. Do not complain about lack of funding when you are unable to come to agreeable terms that will probably see an increase in your funding. Again, do not EVER say we do not want peace in your region. All that does is make it seem like you do not want peace in your countries, as the United States has been doing EVERYTHING we can for an unbelievable amount of time, and still there has been no solution. If YOU truly wanted peace, then you would have agreed to our peace terms by now. Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 09:08:10 PM

Swetha Palestine To The United States of America Since you are providing massive support to the Israel in the form of ammunition and military power, we just want to state that we know your true intentions is not for peace. This support is just a strategic defence in YOUR OWN favour since majority of the Jewish population resides in the USA. We understand you have an obligation to fulfil to the Jewish people outside your country as well. Therefore, we would like for you to state your TRUE intentions rather than lying to the whole world about how you claim to want Peace and Justice. Infact, you just want to protect the peace in your own nation, and if it means that a bunch of Palestinian Arabs (which we understand that you have an obligation to hate due to false stereotypes) have to die, then so be it. If peace was really on your mind, you would open your eyes and realize the artillery supplied to Israel is used to murder several innocent Palestinian civilians. If this is your idea of peace... then I say HYPOCRISY to you again. So far you have supplied $1.6 trillion to Israel since 1973. {www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html} I suggest that the first step in your "peace process" is that you STOP aiding Israel with the power to murder more people and support the reasonable justification of power control over this land. (pre-WWII, before the British Mandate) Sincerely, Mouhmad Abbas, Palestinian Leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas Leader Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 07:58:23 PM

Swetha Palestine [e] In response to all the leaders of the countries that have proposed a diplomatic way of dealing with peace treaties among Palestine and Israel, I would like to just ensure that you are aware of the facts about the war. First, I would like address Pakistan, a MUSLIM nation, that your words shows NO sympathy to your muslim brothers and sisters. The realistic condition of Palestinians reads as follows: 1) LIVING SPACE PALESTINE West Bank Land:5,860 sq km-------->POP(Arabs): 2,385,615 (including 187,000 Israelis) Gaza Strip Land: 360 sq km-------->POP(Arabs: 1,376,289 (including 5,000 Israelis) ISRAEL Israel Land: 20,770 sq km--------->POP(Jews):6,276,883 [Can I ask how this is comparable and reasonably fair?????] 2) 1,065 Israelis and 3,711 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.' 3)The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s. [this shows what military power is used to kill Israelis... think about it!] 4)The Israeli unemployment rate is 10.4%, while the Palestinian unemployment is estimated at 37-67%. (this is definately fair!) Do these statistics justify your peace resolutions? Does it not matter that the Jews are persecuting Muslims when they should be the ones that should know how it feels to be deprived and live in such horrible conditions??? Its sheer HYPOCRISY on the side of the JEWS! Some people are so frustrated with the conditions they are living under that there is nothing else they can do but retailiate in a way they are sure that will bring some action towards justice... therefore, the INTIFADA... it has reasonable justification. To India, as much as we respect your view for peace, we want to, again, ensure you that your view on sufferings being equally bad in Israel and Palestine is WRONG... the above statistics prove a PART of what is actually happening and in NO WAY is any of this equal on both sides. Please consider that fact first before this statement is ever repeated again: "There has been much violence between both Israel and Palestine... You simply cannot rationaly sympthize one over the other because the level of suffering is the same everywhere." "I must remind you that Pakistan and India have a large population of concerned Muslims too....Whether you like it or not this conflict affects us all. " - Sorry, but only people who are right now experiencing death, poverty, persecution, injuries etc. are affected. Muslims can only sympathize and support (Which you are clearly not doing fairly) "I ask you with all do respect to open your minds and telephone lines to negotiate with Israel" - WHYYYY isnt this proposed to ISRAEL??? ONlY palestine??? Whatever happened to mutuality? Have you proposed anything to Israel that would make them understand what they have done? Since they are the ones killing in mass numbers, and are recieving so much funding from the US with lots of military power, THEY should be the ones trying to seek peace with Palestine because they are the ones at fault. Sincerely, Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian leader [I have proof for everything that is stated above.] Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 07:26:03 PM

abhilash india [e] Ok obviously there has been much discussion about the Israel & Palestine conflict. First I’d like to take my hat off to my brother country Pakistan for their support. I’d also like to highlight that India and Pakistan are neutral and equally support Israel and Palestine. Just so no one forgets. There has been much violence between both Israel and Palestine. Both countries are always trading blows. You simply cannot rationaly sympthize one over the other because the level of suffering is the same everywhere. I'd also like to highlight the ideals of my suprisingly compassionate partner, expressed in his last post: the importance, value and preciousness of life. All efforts must be diverted into preserving such things not over land disputes. What's the point of living on land where the soil is soaked with blood? It is such a tradegy to read in the paper how many men, women and childern are suffering because of war. Its daunting when you try to look into the eyes of a child who's innocence and sanity has been robbed by armed conflict. You'd think that child have no place in such places and they really shouldn't. You'd think that things like this can be prevented. There have been tensions and anger for decades and it’s not easy to wash away. It’s this anger and hatred that’s fuelling this undeclared war. And there’s been talk of ‘dirty hands’ to solve this matter and I must stressfully address that no one no matter how strong can silence such anger and hatred with a bullet. The leaders of India and Pakistan see compromise as the best solution. But not everyone will agree. Because of the rising tensions and the rising violence my greatest fear is that Total War will brake out. So I’m asking the impossible by saying to all countries to divert from using military force and open up communications for negotiations. It may seem nieve to say such things since talks for peace never get through but I don't want to see a full scale war where thousands more are slaughtered. I’d also like to add that no force from India or Pakistan will be used on anyone because common sense tells you the use of violence “in the name of peace” is just one big load of crap. Can you really fight fire with more fire without creating a hell of a lot more fire? (rhetorical question you don't have to answer) To the leaders of Palestine I do realize that you are obviously not satisfied with the situation as are many. And I agree with you saying that we (India and Pakistan) are not the centre stage of conflict. I must remind you that Pakistan and India have a large population of concerned Muslims too. This is a conflict of two geologically small nations that has swallowed the entire international community (how ironic). Whether you like it or not this conflict affects us all. I ask you with all do respect to open your minds and telephone lines to negotiate with Israel because if neither of you are willing to cooperate then everything that we try to do will mean jack shizz. To Israel, you are an equally important factor to resolving or escalating this conflict…so why the hell don’t I see any post from you? As a matter of fact there's hardly anyone putting post...doesn't anyone care? This is an international problem and requires an international effort. C'mon people lets get it together. I'm ending this with a quote from an anti-war song written by thee greatest rock n roll band ever: "What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach... So, you get what we had here last week… to remind us all That you can't trust freedom when it's not in your hands When everybody's fightin' for their promised land” - Guns N Roses, Civil War Thursday, October 13th 2005 - 01:29:46 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Throughout our diplomacy process we are often asked the question: 'Who do you think is the victim in the Israel & Palestine issue?' This is a very important question, and answers vary from country-to-country. We personally believe that both Israel & Palestine have been victims. Israelis has been bombarded with suicide bombings without prior notice. Palestinians have been killed with deadly military attacks. It is equally right in our opinion that both Israel and Palestine have been victims, and sadly those victims are usually the most innocent ones. To create a peace loving society might not happen, but we have to aim for it. If we can't achieve that peace loving society goal, then at least we will be closer to it, and at least we will be better off than we were before. --- On a personal level outside the simulation: We should ask ourselves sometimes the importance of life. We often forget what a life is, how precious it is, how it can affect people when it is gone. Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed through wars, just recently the War on Terror (Afghanistan & Iraq), and the long continuing Palestine & Israel war. Think about the families affected, the communities affected. Imagine if you were in this conflict, imagine if you were the leader and what things you would have to go through, imagine if people came into your house and suddenly seized everything, imagine you were scared because the person next to you was ready to blow himself up, imagine if you couldn’t get to work because there is a government eager to isolate you from society, imagine from both the perspectives, from all the perspectives, with an open mind, wouldn’t you want it to end, and now imagine if it happened to you. Us being highly fortunate, living in a good just society, in a society where we have everything, in a society where we don’t have to be in fear from the government or from people, in a society where our problems is whether to get a black BMW, or a blue Benz (for the most part, I might be pushing it on that one), what can we do to stop it. How can we end the bloodshed and the violence, the hatred and the evil, the conflict and the problems, lets all do whatever we can to help a fellow human being. Although it may sound odd, or you may think you are too young, or you can’t do a lot; get out of that mind set, you’re wrong, you can do a lot, and together we can accomplish it. Imagine somehow get a chance to talk to Sharon, the Hamas Leader, the U.N., tell them to think, give them ideas, tell them outside all of their hectic politics that it has to end. Sounds like a dream, may come reality, but as I said in the beginning, if we can’t achieve it, at least we’ll be closer. The feeling of affecting so many peoples’ lives in such a great way would be just amazing. That’s about it…I just seriously felt like writing that. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 11:28:54 PM

Sam USA As this issue stands, and the struggle of the international community goes on to solve this conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the United States is not making an attempt to intimidate anyone with statistics of military spending, international power or physical might. We are simply informing everyone that we have the means to address this situation through any number of diplomatic, financial or military perspectives. This conflict has been on the mind of the international community, as a whole, for quite some time and needs to come to a final end. International relations are a top priority for all countries in the world. We are excelling as a group through hard times and helping eachother in any way we possibly can. For example: support and supplies for victims of the Tsunami; help from other nations came to us when Katrina hit the South-Eastern coast of the United States; relief for victims of the recent earthquake in Pakistan and India. It is now time for the international community to address the ongoing struggle of the Israel-Palistine conflict in the most efficient way possible, even if that means using force. Having said that, force is a last resort. The reason it has been spoken of is because diplomacy, peace offerings and debates have proven inefficient and time consuming. The last resort is simply crawling closer and closer as diplomacy fails. This is another issue that has not gone ignored by the majority of nations set to help the people living in Israel, but has not been noticed. If it takes a seemingly large wake of violence to eliminate the ongoing conflict that has been unstoppable for over half a century. When will it stop? When diplomacy has tried and failed again? It can only fail so many times before the responsibility must be taken to end the killing and religious fighting for the sake of the international community. We support diplomacy, but the number of attempts that can be taken by these means are running out. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 09:55:35 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] We would like to extend our hand to the United States and say thank-you for being behind us in our diplomacy plans. We have the common goal of achieving peace. We will try to incorporate our plans together as much as possible, and we along with India will have a joint meeting together with you after we have done our conferences on Friday. This will be an international effort, for a conflict that may take physically in a small region, but affects people internationally. Our thanks to the United States from the bottom of our hearts. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 09:22:25 PM

Jake USA Thank you for clearing that up. I sincerely hope that you can do the best job you can in trying to solve this conflict. I wish you good luck in whatever you are trying to do, and from what we are being told at this point in time, I can say that the U.S. is behind you 100%. We will support you in any way you need us to. As well, the Dick-Bush connection has plans of our own that we would like to try and implement if your group cannot come to a conclusion. I know you can and will do the best you possibly can, but remember that we will be waiting with our own plans, and we believe that this conflict will be solved, if not by you... then definetly by the United States. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 09:05:36 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] We are writing this in response to the criticism, and at the same time the enthusiasm that we Pakistan & India have received over how peace can be achieved in the Middle East. First, I would like to address to the international community that support our plan, the majority do, and you have given us the motivation to achieve our goals in the Middle East. Thank-you for your support, we will not overlook it. Secondly, I would like to address the United States. Mr. Cheney I am sorry that our statement made you believe that it was wholly the United States fault; if you look at our statement we have not even mentioned your country. On to President Bush, who I first sincerely thank for your on-going support of money, materials, etc., to the devastated area Pakistan in the wake of the earthquake. We were some of the few international countries that were by your side when Hurricane Katrina struck and now you have returned the favor; we appreciate it. About your concern with our diplomacy plans, we would like to aware you that it is different than what the United States has proposed, we have a different type of idea, and a different way of implementing and achieving our goals in the Middle East. The proposal will be publicly announced in a few days and we alongside India will value your input, it will be greatly appreciated. Our alliances are strong and lets not have this issue wash it away. Now to the Palestinian leader, who we wonder sometimes can ever learn to maybe just listen. These conferences do not require your present, your decision does not matter at all, and you do not even know what the conference is about. As for your concern of accepting to any sort of peace term, I rest assure you that you will not be forced, neither will we threaten you in anyway. However, if you fail as a leader because of your inability to come to peace than, 'Dirty-Hands' will be used if that is the politically correct term; not by us directly, but by others who we cannot stop. At that point, we will officially stop our support with you as you have had many chances to come to an agreement. To Israel, both Pakistan & India thank-you for your patience, and your cooperation to work with us to help solve this disputed region. We value and respect your religious view of the land. Lastly to the Muslim countries; there have been statements made by a country we do not wish to name but all know very well. It talks about patriotism with Palestine, and the Muslim region. That is perfectly fine, and we too (Pakistan) respect that region, we are also Muslims, and our country fought to create a Muslim country in the Indian subcontinent. However, lets look at what we are supporting/fighting for, and lets obey the Islamic values, principles, and laws on this issue. Firstly, suicide in Islam is forbidden and that means human-bombs are therefore not allowed. Secondly, lets not forget we too believe in the Story of Moses, and the Torah as the book of God and thus the Promised Land. Thirdly, let’s all use the style of leadership, and treaties as the Prophet had showed us too, and how the history of Muslim leaders have done it. It is sad that we are technically fighting our own cousins. We have lived together in history together successfully, which has been called, ‘The Golden Era’ for the Jews. We can do it again, from a brother-to-brother, please cooperate. That is all for now, but before we end our statement we would like to repeat what we said in our previous statement: ‘I want the world community to know that we (Pakistan along with India) support both sides and will do whatever we can to help resolve the problem.’ We support both, value them equally, we are the facilitators. I hope this world can be a better place. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 08:53:33 PM

Amelia Controller [e] Mandatory Assignment #2: In class on Tuesday Oct 11, I spoke on the two existing peace plans for the Israeli and Palestinian conflict. The two state solution and the binational solution. Two state being that Israel should be divided between the two, and binational solution saying that a secular democratic government should rule both. For your convenience I have put the Wikipedia links to re-explain these two concepts. Two State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-state_solution Binational:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binational_solution __________________________________________________________ ASSIGNMENT: Make a peace plan for the Israeli Palestine conflict. Minimum is: 10 point form steps. It is worth 10 marks. DUE: Wednesday October 19, 12:00 AM TIP: The final Mandatory post, which I will post later, will be due on Sunday, October 23. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 05:42:44 PM

Swetha/Aisha Palestine I understand from the recent posts that there is a conference going on without the intervention of Israel, the USA and Palestine. I strongly recommend that all ARAB nations consider the fact that this is PAKISTAN and INDIA, not the major political nations of the conflict that is ensuing at this moment. If there ever will be any such a meeting among any nations, it would be with Palestine calling for it, NOT with Pakistan. If there are any treaties or agreements made during this conference, (if there will be one that is), Please make note that any force used against Palestine into accepting peace terms with Israel will be strictly rejected without a second thought. If any such proposal is issued, it would be made through a rational debate and discussion WITH Palestine present at the conference. All Arab nations remember your patriotism to Palestine and the Muslim religion and that all we wish for is justice and in that, peace for the Arab nations. God be with you All. Mahmoud Abbas, Palestinian Leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas Leader Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 04:41:27 PM

abhilash india [e] in response to USA's last post dirty hands will do you no good, espeically when you've already told the world about it. violence will led to more violence. why is it that you are now so willing to use force? your display of military spending during dipolmact doesn't intimidate anyone. I don't blame this whole conflict on you but your main goals are our own ambitions. Asia and the Middle Eastern must come together to resolve this conflict. On our meeting India and Pakistan will give out our proposal to each Middle Eastern country attending the meeting. I sincerly hope that all countries are willing to attend this meeting so we can formulate a plan that will ensure long lasting peace. Wednesday, October 12th 2005 - 11:09:27 AM

Sam USA The reason that peace will not come between Israel and Palestine is because intervention is not occuring in a persuasive way. Diplomacy, if initially coming from one country, does not work, then the same meetings with the same goals will not turn out in a different way. Action needs to be taken and dirty hands must be used to resolve a dirty conflict. Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 11:32:52 PM

Jake USA You make it sound like its our fault that peace won't come in the middle east. Well, good luck! Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 08:29:49 PM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Today we have seen a lot of controversy between Palestine & Israel. Both hold strong grounds on the issue, and both do not want to negotiate to come up with a viable solution. Peace between these two countries feels oceans apart, and they might never just sit down and resolve their problems. However, we must do whatever we can to unite the region. The western countries have had a long time to solve this problem, and now it is time for eastern countries to step up the plate. Pakistan along with India has decided they need to intervene and help eliminate this problem, not through force, but through diplomacy. It will take a hard bunch along with a lot of negotiating, and yelling to finally come to a solution. I want the world community to know that we (Pakistan along with India) support both sides and will do whatever we can to help resolve the problem. For this reason there will be two conferences hosted by Pakistan & India, it will be held on Friday, October 14th, 2005. Conference #1 - The Arab Agreement: Iraq Iran Egypt Conference #2 - Defense Strategies: Everyone excluding Canada, United States, Great Britain, Israel, and Palestine Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 07:56:20 PM

Amelia Controller Mistake on Marking scheme: 6 - content 4 - grammar/spelling Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 03:59:48 PM

Amelia Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 03:59:03 PM

Amelia controller [e] MARKING SCHEME - Each mandatory post must be done individually. - You will get a zero if you do not hand in before the deadline. - Each post is out of 10 marks. - For the content mark, make sure you know what you are talking about, research! MARKS 6 – content (how clear is your message, is it on topic?) 3 – grammar/spelling (no internet jargon or slang, proper sentence structure, ect.) ___________________________________________________________ NOTE : Since I did not post this marking scheme before the first mandatory post, I will be lenient in marking the first mandatory post. But now that I have posted this, no mistakes! TIP: Type your post in Word first so you can see and fix your mistakes easier. Then copy and paste your post into the guestbook. TIP: When you finish signing the guestbook, click 'view' then 'refresh' the page to see your post. ___________________________________________________________ Thankyou, I will post Mandatory Assignment #2 later. Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 03:58:20 PM

Amelia Controller Mandatory Assignment #1 has been collected, all those who have no submitted it before 12:00 AM will get zero. 10/18 people submitted the assignment. See you all in class tomorrow, hope this assignment has helped you prepare for the meeting tomorrow. Dress up! Amelia Tuesday, October 11th 2005 - 12:02:20 AM

Ammar / Pakistan [e] Mandatory Posting #1 1. The article is stating that for the conflict to stop between Israel and Palestine in the disputed region will be to eradicate the state of Israel (because it is a Zionist state, which means no one else but Jews can live there, have citizenship, and be able to vote; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism), and create a secular democratic state of Palestine where everyone has equal representation. 2. I agree, the government should be changed to secular democratic from a Zionist state. A Zionist state does not give citizenship to the Palestinians or in that matter anyone else. Because there is such a religious significance to both the Jews and the Muslims, and because both of them have ties to the land, I think it is vital to have a secular democratic system. 3. I think the United States would be the best candidate to get Israel to become a democratic secular government. This is simply because the United States aids Israel through financial, and militarily power; making them become a close ally with the U.S. Also, the United States has showed interest in solving this conflict, and former president Bill Clinton tried uniting the region. Lastly, U.S. is one of the strongest, most powerful nations on earth, and their decision counts. 4. Some arguments that I can think of that would prove that the democratic system in Israel is corrupt is: -Government ordered assassinations (Hamas leader, etc.). -No one else but the Jewish people being able to have citizenship in the state of Israel even if they live, work, or were born there. -Ariel Sharon is wanted for war crime by many countries, and organizations around the world. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 11:34:43 PM

lisa Canada [e] 1. The Isreal's and the palestine disputes are over land, mainly Jerusalem because the city is sacred to both religions ( the whaling wall (jews), and the Furthest mosque for the (Islams). This article demonstrates that the palestinians and isreali's can both share their holy land. But throughout history, both states have displayed greediness among the land disputes. In my perspective, the author has the final solution to enable democracy in order for the palestine and isreali's to be "friendly neighbours" In order to have an utopian democracy, every ethnic minority should have equality. 2. Israel being in the Middle East would naturally arise conflicts between two religions. So yes, I agree that there should be somewhat of a secular nation. Since there are so many conflicts between these two states that by not reconizing by their their religions, would enable not to judge other minorities. Religion shouldn't impose with the politics of the country. 3. The Zionist would cause a disruption if there were to be a secular government. Believing that this was there promised land/ancestral land, they will not live in a neutral/religious country. The palestinian would also be unsettled by this because it makes both the jewish and Isalmic community to lose their identity. I believe that there shouldn't be one country to impose a secular government in the Isreali and palestine. I believe that the United Nations should have more authority and for the world to all take part of the isreali and palestine propaganda. 4. * leadership (public services) * Law enforcement * To implement law in the Isreali governmetn system Monday, October 10th 2005 - 11:34:36 PM

Jake USA [e] Mandatory Post #1 1. What this article is stating is that for all problems to be fixed, then they need to get rid of Israel and create a non-religion based government in Palestine. Doing this will make everyone equal. 2. I do agree that the government should be changed to a democratic government, because it is proven to work. Many of the great nations have a democratic government, like the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and many others. 3. I think a democratic government would be in the best interest of Israel, as again, it is proven to have worked. Of course America would be the best option to set this up, as we are the most powerful nation for a reason… the United States knows how to run a country. 4. Government ordered assassinations, missing federal dollars, lack of a constitution to keep order 5. Ottawa Senators suck! Monday, October 10th 2005 - 11:16:12 PM

aNita Iraq [e] Mnaitory Assignment 1. The article is about the problem between Jewish and Palestinians fighting over the same thing, land. They are trying to enforce democracy and peace to each other, but they both dont want to share because they dont like each other. Over the centuries they both tried to get rid of eahc other, which in most part failed. In result if they do not share, both countries will not have any land in the end and both side will be unsatisfy. 2. Yes i think it should change into secular democratic. Simply because the people there, i think, have too much freedom and they dont think about the concequenses of their action. They make that the rights for granted, which i think is stupid because if you are given a certain right, you shouldn't abuse it no mattter how free or how open it is for everyone. THey need to take controll of their people in order to have a good country, and maybe in order to do so, they may need more stricter rules and policy for them to follow. 3. I think it would have a positive affect to the nation. Then they will know who is in power and it will teach them not to behave on their own actions. The best canidate.. i think is no one. maybe one that is somewhat close would be america. since it is the "most democratic" place on earth. 4. gov't orders assassinations / no money !! / free market = unproductive -THE END- Monday, October 10th 2005 - 10:30:32 PM

Melnyk Hello All, I would like to remind everyone of the rules (check first post please Chris). Hope you all had a nice weekend. Don't forget to dress up for tomorrow's diplomacy session. MM Monday, October 10th 2005 - 09:20:48 PM

. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 08:59:15 PM

Swetha Mand. Assign.#1 1) This article is saying that Israel should not exist anymore and that a new kind of government should be instilled in PALESTINE instead. Israel was created by sending the Jews from Europe and so basically the country was just created on an already existing Arab nation, that is why there is so much conflict as to what are the fair boundary lines and who should get how much land and which pieces. Basically, once Israel will seize to exist, Palestine will establish a non-religious democratic country, where both, the Jews and Arabs will be able to reside peacefully, and equally (hopefully in the real world, this will happen some day) 2)Yes, I agree with the establishment of a secular democratic government because the basic conflict with Israel and Palestine is rooted in religion. There should be a government which doesn't promote hatred against either religions and is more concerned about the status of the country's economy and social well being. However, there is a disadvantage to this. The citizens of the country, either Jewish or Arab, would rebel against this "democracy" since democracy's power comes from the citizens that are ruled by it. Somehow, this kind of government can only be established if majority of the people agreed on it. Hopefully the people of Israel and Palestine will get tired of the war and TRY to make peace (in the real world that is, not what will happen in class however... HA... just joking!) 3) I think that such a government would bring about mixed feelings because the Israelis have power now, and the would definately want to keep their power and their religion as well. The Palestinians feel like their land was stolen and they are more entitled to the holy land of Jerusalem. This is because each race is so passionate about their religion that they would not compromise for a government that did not recognize their religion as the superior one. This is the injustice of the Middle East. There is no better religion, however, if the people of Israel and Palestine do not realzie that a secular democracy can actually actually recognize BOTH religions EQUALLY, they will continue to rebel against such a government. However, some people (civilians mostly) would want to have peace because they want to feel safe. Finally after almost a 40 years of fighting, it would be a wonderful experience to say that Israel or Palestine is a safe place for a family to reside in. 4) >Poor Law Enforcement >Governemnt using authority to gain personal benefits >Misuse of the country's money for scandals Monday, October 10th 2005 - 08:53:39 PM

Aisha Palestine Mandatory Assignment #1 1.The article is basically stating that Israel and Palestine have taken place in an endless conflict, in which won’t get resolved without imposing democracy amongst the Arabs and Jews and forcing each side to be able to live among one another in a civilized manner. Both being able to contribute to the sacred land of Jerusalem, where Arabs and Jews have been fighting over for years. The author believes by bringing democracy it will nourish peace and equal opportunity and it remains as the final solution. 2. I agree that the government should be secular democratic because religion and politics should be separated so that the rights of all minorities can be guaranteed. 3. It is possible for conflict to arise with the Zionist state because religious protest against the secular democratic state, also it could bring more rights to those who have had their rights infringed upon or violated. Because America funds Israel for their military, security and armed forces by stating a secular democratic government it would leave Israel for their last resort to follow through Americas orders. Although people may not accept it legitimate. 4. Under the democratic government by Israel building the wall surrounding the West bank for keeping the Palestinians out, it violates the UN charter. Racial segregation between Palestinians and Israelis by keeping the Jews in the position of higher authority and Palestinians not having the right to vote. Ariel Sharon is wanted for war crime in Palestinian refugee war camps in Lebanon, therefore the leader creating a corrupt environment amongst the state. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 08:38:10 PM

Amelia You need to re-read the rules for this chatroom set out by Mr. Melnyk. I will not tolerate swearing, and if anyone is pretending to be someone else, that is supposed to be run by me. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 08:36:27 PM

Rob Iran [e] Mandatory Posting: 1) The article is saying the only way for the end of violence is to impose a democracy for the benefit of the minority 2) If the government is changed the outcomes would be more positive than negative, however there would be a large number of Jews rebelling some of the governments views. Also a government cannot be just imposed, it has to grow on the civilians and over time change the country. 3) It would either bring the different people together, or tear them apart even more. It’s tough to say, but Iran is leaning towards doing anything possible to give the Palestinians some rights and freedoms. If America was to inject a democracy over Israel, it would be favourable to the Israelis most definitely and I don’t think much would change in the area of rights to all minorities. 4) Plain and simple, if Israel were under a “democratic” system presently, then the Palestinians would have the same freedom as the Jews. Also there is not much public safety such as policing. The system is corrupt when the government is investing money to murder civilians of its own land. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 08:09:09 PM

Amelia The artical in my mandatory assignment is referring to the little 'blurb' that i have inserted into my message. I am sorry for the mass confusion. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 07:01:37 PM

Amelia 28th message from bottom. Its clearly labeled Mandatory Assignment #1 Monday, October 10th 2005 - 06:48:52 PM

Amelia Controller [e] I am sorry some of you feel that my post was too difficult for you. Sadly I did run the 'article' by Mr Melnyk and he thought it was sufficient. If you look at last years chatroom you will see the controller put up the same kind of assignemnt. I do not have a problem with those who are disagreeing with the way i work, but i cannot respect anything that is being said since you will not even put up your name. Until you talk to me normally, I will continue to ignor your comments and assume that you write them because you are too lazy. To the rest of you, dont forget to keep up the interesting discussions. The class should be exciting tomorrow. I look forward to it. Amelia Monday, October 10th 2005 - 06:45:20 PM

Shawn V Egypt ummmm ameila wheres this article and questions? i've looked up and down the page i see you talking to usa and silly palestine but wheres this assigntment?i can't see it and if its not there its unfair for me or anyone to not give a mark cause it wasn't there or if it is I can't see it due to all off usa and palestines spam. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 06:37:36 PM

Sam USA k... that seriosly took no more than 20 minutes... i wud tell u to stop complaining if it took an hour... suck it up Monday, October 10th 2005 - 04:38:06 PM

Sam USA Mandatory Post: I. This article is outlining a possible way to stop conflict between Israelis and Palestinians by enforcing democracy and forcing the Jews and the Arabs to share what they are fighting over. If they do not share, the fighting will continue and there is no other way to make everyone happy or as happy as they would both end up with this resolution. II. The conflict will only be resolved through forceful action. The only way to stop a fight is to stick someone bigger and stronger in the middle of the opposing forces. Once the physical fighting has stopped, then a democratic government may be necessary, but democratic or not, there can only be one government to represent the region as a whole. III. America would be the only proper candidate to solve this conflict as it is the most powerful and most influence, democratic nation. Great Britain could give it a shot but they are the ones who had hand in creating the conflict between the Arabs and the Jews in the region. If America overpowered both sides of the conflict, the fighting would stop, and therefore a settlement could be reached, or enforced, and the general population of the region would benefit in the long run. IV. Federal money goes missing; government ordered assassinations; son of prime minister indicted on charges of corruption. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 04:35:31 PM

Chris Iran Mandatory Posting #1 1. In my own words, the article is stating that there isn't a solution to this conflict, unless both sides are willing to make drastic changes. It is very clear that this conflict goes deep into ethnicity, and racial differences, but gives the solution of democracy, ensuring the rights of minorities. 2. I do not agree with a full change in the government, because it is not the fault of the government. The government enforces laws that try to help subdue the fighting, but it is mainly the people that make their own decisions. To use an example, the giant wall being enforced and paid for by the government, has not fully abolished terrorism, but greatly decreased it. The government is not the only entity to blame. People themselves are very uneducated and are so "into" their religion, that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for it, thus meaning that the people themselves are not educated enough to make their own decisions. 3. I think if the government was changed, then they would enforce useless laws that would not do much. People would go to jail, thus making more and more people angry. This would eventually end up with the government physically enforcing the laws, either with a huge wall or with armed forces. 4. The Funding they have is not enough to provide for security. Police themselves, do not enforce laws Money is being sucked out of the government without a trace Monday, October 10th 2005 - 04:26:22 PM

Jake USA Amelia is doing a good job. I asked a question and she replied with the answer, an answer that helped me to do what I needed to do. I am sure it is a tough job controlling idiots like us, and I think she is doing everything she needs to be doing. So shutup and do the damn work. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 04:19:46 PM

Jake USA When I'm really tired and I can't fall asleep I just go to the period 4 page. I read the posts and can fall asleep instantly. Thanks, period 4! Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:49:58 PM

p4 stop posting comments on our simulation page Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:38:05 PM

Amelia lol, wth, is everyone up at 2:00 am?? Sorry Jake for the accusation. Could have been a bunch of ppl. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 07:18:14 AM

Amelia Controller I dont think im that bad, but hey,if you have suggestions just let me know! Like what Coly did, i appreciate communication. So if you have questions or sugestions dont just post a revolt suggestion (Jake, since you were the only one up around 2:00 am..kinda obvious)Just message me here or email me guys, and ill take it into consideration and let you know. Happy Thanksgiving Amelia Monday, October 10th 2005 - 07:14:40 AM

Amelia Controller Oh, sorry Coly and everyone for the length, im wasnt sure how they would end up (the answers) You dont have to make them so long, and point form like you did would be good. Sorry all, ill be easier on you the next time, hows that? Like two questions. Amelia Monday, October 10th 2005 - 07:08:02 AM

Amelia controller yes the 'article' means the blurb, sorry for teh confusion Monday, October 10th 2005 - 07:05:01 AM

Coly Iraq [e] wow... that was a long assignment... uhh... controller... maybe you should make up more smaller assignments rather than huge assignments... cuz that took forever to do... juss a suggestion uhh... n i want 2 kno if u were talkin about this article... http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2000/425/425p18.htm cuz now i dunno if my answers r gonna b right... since i didnt know whut article you were talkin about or if u were tlakin about those couple of lines... Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:53:52 AM

Coly Iraq [e] wow... big conflict in here... well... i think that... sometimes you guys shouldn't view things from one side of the story... i read your posts... and really... both ur sides have reasonable arguments (from an outsiders perspective)... points that both make you guys the bad guys and good guys... and since everyone wants to be the 'good guy'... that is why there is so much world conflict... but... perhaps you guys could start looking at your countries faults (in doing something or not taking the initiative to do something) to make this world a better place rather than always remember what your countries did right or blaming others of their wrongs... there could be change since that is our main goal... ******Mandatory Assignment #1...****** (1) The article is about the conflicts between the Jewish and Palestinians... where they both want the land. But conflicts between the Jewish and Arabs has made it so that they cannot share this sacred land - which has significant meanings to both religion. Throughout history, the Jewish has tried to get rid of the Palestinians (arabs) as well as vice versa, i assume. The Zionists which are jewish people who created a movement due to the growth in anti-semitism, were very concerned about reestablishing themselves in the Jewish homeland of Palestine wanted to make Palestine all for themselves - in the past due to these zionist movements it has resulted in many bloodshed and the displacement of many people. The author has concluded in saying that the solution for this is to replace the zionist state with democracy to bring equality and peace to everyone in palestine. (2) In my opinion, I think that the government should only be changed to a partially secular democratic government. This makes me sound like a monster, because I'm not supporting equal treatment and freedom amongst all... right? But, in my opinion, there shouldn't be so much freedom given to the people when there is going to be a huge chance of them abusing their rights - when their religion and culture is such a big part of someone, they need to have pride - this means that, there will most definetely be a problem amongst these people because they will try to climb to the top when everything is equal. In the end, all these people really have pride in is their religion, when you take that pride away to make them they will feel like they are all the same, it would give them no point in trying to stand out or even to believe in their religion... and would that be democracy?... Maybe when people resort to peaceful living and equality, there should be secular democracy where religion is not a big problem and people can choose what they want and have freedom - but in the meantime, you cannot force something to happen people are not willing to accept because of individuality and pride. in relation to the FULL article by Sue Boland: an example of this would be like: "The Zionist militias didn't wait until the formal declaration of independence in 1948. They launched a terror campaign against the indigenous population in December 1947" - This reflects how hard it is to ammend changes and how hard it is to create something that would conform to people's needs. Creating this secular democratic government would most probably result in a something worse than intended. (3) I think that a secular democratic government would greatly affect what the country would become. Since perfection is such a hard goal - it would be better not to try to use the approach of a secular democratic government... trying to bring so much at once will create even more conflict in this place. This will probably not bring peace and democracy in this place but probably make it go back a step. How would trying to bring something that would have to make them agree to something have a better affect them allowing them to agree upon themselves?... I think this will have a devastating effect especially on the innocent people of Palestine, those who don't have an opinion on this situation will have to choose a side if there needs to be equality. I don't think there will be a best candidate to bring this democratic secular government to Israel - when the people in Israel cannot solve this, how can someone else try to force them into agreeing with each other. This sort of government shouldn't be enforced by an outside country, even though i believe that there should be some sort of international intervention. The fate of the country should be put into the hands of the country's people and the decision should be made to fit their needs. (4) reasons to say that Israel's gov't is corrupt: - there is not enough money put to the country's security... especially since there is so much damage being done... there is no safety for those in Israel - there is poor law enforcement that is run under the government... and the laws that aren't necessarily effective... leaves many guilty to be uncharged and those innocent to be captured - the usage of free markets in Israel is very uneffective and there are many dirty hands in the gov't banking. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:47:42 AM

Jake USA Taking a break from me being right for just a minute. I need clarification on the mandatory post. This question is confusing me: 1.What is this article saying? Explain in your own words. What article are we talking about? Is it just that little blurb that is 3 lines long or is there an actual full length article we need to read? Thanks. Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:32:14 AM

Jake USA CIA World Factbook: "On 24 June 2002, US President BUSH laid out a "road map" for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which envisions a two-state solution. However, progress toward a permanent status agreement has been undermined by Palestinian-Israeli violence ongoing since September 2000." IPCRI: "The US Government has paid out $1 million for a study on how best to link the West Bank and Gaza. " Do not say we aren't doing our part to stop this. And, if you'll look at a timeline from mideastweb (http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm) you will see some interesting information. I will post all major events in chronological order up until the point that shows our arming of the Israeli army is not the cause of war. Nov 2, 1917 British issued the Balfour Declaration, viewed by Jews and Arabs as promising a “National Home” for the Jews in Palestine. (Britain declares a home for Jews in Palestine, not the USA) 1936-1939 Arab Revolt led by Haj Amin Al-Husseini. Over 5,000 Arabs were killed according to some sources, mostly by British. Several hundred Jews were killed by Arabs. Husseini fled to Iraq and then to Nazi Germany. (The first mention of fighting between Israel and Palestine shows that the ARABS were the first to kill. Arabs killing Jews.) May 15, 1948 Israel War of Independence (1948 War). Declaration of Israel as the Jewish State; British leave Palestine; Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia declared war on Israel. Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian invasion began. (Further looking into this "Israel War of Independence" will show the following: Under the leadership of Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the local Arabs rebelled against the British, and attacked the growing Jewish population repeatedly. During the riots in Palestine of 1929, 67 Jews were massacred in Hebron, and the survivors were driven out. These attacks had three lasting effects: First, they led to the formation and development of Jewish underground militias, primarily the Haganah, which were to prove decisive in 1948. Secondly, it became clear that the two communities could not be reconciled, and the idea of partition was born. [[[[[ARABS CREATED THE FIRST ATTACK THAT RESULTED IN IRRECONCILABLE DIFFERENCES]]]]] The Israel War of Independence only broke out after Arabs attacked innocent Jewish settlers brought to Palestine by the UK... moving on) April 3, 1949 Armistice - Israel and Arab states agree to armistice. (An armistice is when you AGREE to stop fighting... but look what follows) May, 1964 PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization) founded with the aim of destroying Israel. The Palestinian National Charter (1968) officially called for liquidation of Israel. (aim of destroying Israel AFTER an armistice?) Oct. 6, 1973 Yom Kippur War (October War). In a surprise attack on the Jewish day of atonement, Egypt retook the Suez canal and a narrow zone on the other side. Syria reconquered the Golan Heights. Following massive US and Soviet resupplying of the sides, Israel succeeded in pushing back the Syrians and threatening Damascus. (MAJOR MAJOR POINT RIGHT HERE: The United States arms the Israelis at THIS POINT IN TIME, after the first war between Palestine and Israel had started and finished. There was no war when we armed the Israelis. And arming of the Israelis was NOT in a war against Palestine! It was arm the Israels after a surprise attack on one of their most religious holidays. We DID NOT arm Israel for fights against Palestine. We armed them for DEFENSE AGAINST EGYPT AND SYRIA) Monday, October 10th 2005 - 02:20:44 AM

Aisha Palestine "Okay, maybe arms we supplied to the Israelis did end up killing innocent Palestinians. But what they do with those weapons is NOT under our control" America supplied weapons to the Israelis which ended up killing many innocent beings, but you say that you had no control over it? If America didn't give the weapons to israel, they wouldn't of had the amount of arms to be able to kill as many innocent beings, which basically prevents them from killing as many humans. Obviously if a person gives a weapon to another, that person knows the intention and the outcome out of it. Therefore america had the chance to prevent the killings of palestinians but they chose to add to it, then you say America were the ones who are trying to "solve" the conflict? Monday, October 10th 2005 - 01:00:06 AM

Amelia Controller [e] Guys dont forget about the mandatory assignment. Due Monday Midnight. And dress up on tuesday. Amelia Sunday, October 9th 2005 - 11:07:45 PM

Jake USA Well Palestine, heres what I have to say: 1. If you'd remember from a certain video the class watched about the situation in Israel and Palestine, you'd remember a part where it showed Bill Clinton meeting with the Isreali and the Palestinian leaders to try and SOLVE the conflict in that area. The U.S.A. was there to SOLVE the conflict. But, if you'd recall, the whole situation was deemed pretty much a joke as it was shown on the video that the two leaders of the sides were arguing about who should enter the building first! Is this the fault of the United States? You might say it is our fault, because we are the ones who set up the meeting. But it is the arrogant leaders of your country who decided to be little whiny babies and argue over who enters a building first. So does the United States supplying arms to Israel have anything to do with the fact that the two countries decided not to talk about peace? No. 2. If you are not laughing at the people who died, then why did you use the e-term "LOL", which means to LAUGH out loud? This means you actually are laughing, and since you used it as a direct relation to the terrorist attacks, this means you were laughing at the terrorist attacks. LOL! 3. Okay, maybe arms we supplied to the Israelis did end up killing innocent Palestinians. But what they do with those weapons is NOT under our control. If I give a friend $100, is it under my control how he spends it? No. I can give him suggestions, but the final descision is based on what HE wants, and not what I told him, even if what I believe is right, even if I believe what he wants is wrong, and even if he believes what he wants is right. Its up to him. And another thing, Israelis are not the only ones killing innocent people. A war is not a war if there is only one side involved. That means that if the Israelis are killing innocent Palestinians, then the Palestinians are killing innocent Israelis. Actually, its listed on wikipedia as an "infitada". n : an uprising by Palestinian Arabs (in both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank) against Israel in the late 1980s and again in 2000. An uprising by Palestinians! They are the ones on the attack. Israel may be occupying these territories, thats true... but the Palestinians are uprising. Israel occupying these territories does NOT mean they were killing innocent people. But an uprising by Palestinians does mean they were killing Israelis. 4. If you can explain to me why I should sympathize about the devastation that Palestinians are recieving right now, then I will explain to you why you should sympathize about our terrorist attacks. Count it. Sunday, October 9th 2005 - 03:30:16 AM

Swetha Palestine First of all USA... have you ever tried to stir ur attention from ur OWN Country and perhaps take a peek at Palestine and the massive killing that you have fuelled there by supporting Israel? By allying yourself with them and supplying them with arms that is used to kill INNOCENT and mark my words, INNOCENT civilians of Palestine, with no justified reasoning, makes you a hypocrite of your words... So dont go preaching about how terribly sad it is that people in your country, people who probably don't even know about Palestinians who live under less than $2 a day go through... your sarcsm only goes to show the level of your ignorance. We are not laughing at the innocent people who died, we sympthize with them, but if you had ANY insight, you would know that we were laughing at the government's ignorance in their involvement in the Middle East and their complete arrogance and idiocy in reasoning why they side with the Jews... This we shall discuss at diplomacy. I'd like to watch your face as answer a few of my questions... And as a final word, if you think that Terrorism (as much as you say you are being sarcastic, i think subconsciencly you really do find it funny if you were able to crack a joke as WELL as you did) I suggest you think about that one day, September 11th 2001 and the 3000 people that died and the ongoing war for almost 40 years within Palestine and the number of people that died within that span and are still dying. Explain to me how your terrorist attacks are something Palestinians have to worry and sympathize about when this picture can speak a thousand words of the devastation that they are experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT! http://www.freewebs.com/crystalkisses/pic.jpg Saturday, October 8th 2005 - 11:13:34 PM

Amelia Controller [e] Okay, its great to see that some of you are getting involved in the discussion.To USA, your sarcasm however it was meant to be accepted, I will not tolerate. Please be wise with what you say, I can and will deduct marks where I see fit. thanks, remember to do the mandatory assignment Saturday, October 8th 2005 - 07:20:13 PM

Jake USA And a third thing to the person who was too coward to post their own name... please point out where I said Jesus was ONLY for Jews? Get YOUR facts straight, or stay out of the discussion. Saturday, October 8th 2005 - 11:24:07 AM

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